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Old 10-08-2015, 04:43 AM   #1
Neutronic
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Default "Record MIDI overdub/replace" item length bug while looping (FIXED)

Whenever either the "Record MIDI overdub" or "Record MIDI replace" options are used while loop recording, the length of the recorded item is longer than the loop size. It also grows sporadically on subsequent recording passes. The bug is not present when either the "Record MIDI touch-replace" or "Record MIDI latch-replace" are activated.

EDIT: it looks like the buffer size somehow affects this because the bigger it is the longer the item gets.

Here's a licecap of the bug:
.

Last edited by Neutronic; 10-09-2015 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 12:47 PM   #2
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Can't reproduce this in 5.04 x64 with 256 samples buffer size.

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-02-2016 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 12:59 PM   #3
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hmm I can reproduce it on either v4.78 or v5.0 or v.5.05. I forgot to mention, that I am on Windows x64 with REAPER x64.

Let me give a step by step bug recipe, just in case something was not clear in my initial post:
1. Create a new track;
2. Arm it and choose the "Record: MIDI overdub/replace --> Record: MIDI overdub" option;
3. Create a loop of any size (it is one beat on the licecap posted for the sake of gif size);
4. Toggle repeat on;
5. Start recording and play some notes on every pass.

In any case, thank you for checking it out, Dstruct.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:05 PM   #4
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Still can't reproduce it (tested with 256 and 2048 samples buffer sizes).

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-02-2016 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:13 PM   #5
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Thank you once again. Just did a fresh portable install without importing my config and I also can't reproduce the bug. Now I have to figure out what causes the behavior with my standard configuration.

Last edited by Neutronic; 10-08-2015 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Not "exporting" but "importing"
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:19 PM   #6
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Ok, weird. I remember that there was a bug like this but it should be fixed.

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-02-2016 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:20 AM   #7
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hmm maybe some remnants of that bug somehow stayed in my installation.
Anyway, I disabled the REAPER.ini in my normal installation folder and let the REAPER build a new one. The bug disappeared. Now it would be great to know which REAPER.ini corrupted parameter might affect that, so that I don't do over the customization.

EDIT: I went ahead and simply redid the customization. It wasn't as time consuming as one would think, since this time I knew exactly what I wanted and where to find it. Plus the majority of tailoring was done with custom menus/actions/key strokes anyway, which thankfully are independent of REAPER.ini and therefore remained intact.

EDIT 2: after some time the bug was back and further testing revealed that the problem was not the .ini but my custom startup template. Maybe it was created when the bug actually existed and it carried some remnants of it. The bottom line is - now that I created a new startup template everything works fine even with my old REAPER.ini.

Last edited by Neutronic; 10-09-2015 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Ok, weird. I remember that there was a bug like this but it should be fixed.
Hi - Sorry to resurrect a 'Solved' bug thread, but I am experiencing this with a fresh portable install of v5.1.

I opened a bug report with Benjamin over at Playtime because I first became aware of the problem after Overdub record mode was added (to Playtime) earlier this month. Benjamin added a 'glue-after-overdub' workaround to Playtime but said that this was probably a REAPER bug, so I did a fresh portable install and followed Neutronic's steps to reproduce.



The MIDI item grows larger than the item recorded, and the size increases the longer overdub runs.

Dstruct - I'm surprised you cannot replicate - are you on a Mac by any chance (I'm on Win 10 64bit)

The same behaviour is exhibited even if creating a 1 bar loop manually before going into overdub record mode. Track input quantise makes no difference either.

Glueing the item after overdub recording fixes the MIDI item properties length, but it's easy to forget to do this.

One other thing, not a bug but intended behaviour as far as I can tell - is there any way to have an overdubbed item retain it's 'Loop source' flag ?

Cheers
Rob
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:07 AM   #9
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Are you sure you're not using a template startup project? In my case that was it - there was something corrupted in the template project. Unless the bug returned for some reason. I'm not at the PC at the moment, but I will try to replicate it later.
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robu_23 View Post
Dstruct - I'm surprised you cannot replicate - are you on a Mac by any chance (I'm on Win 10 64bit)
Win8.1, REAPER 5.1 x64


Still can't reproduce with these steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
1. Create a new track;
2. Arm it and choose the "Record: MIDI overdub/replace --> Record: MIDI overdub" option;
3. Create a loop of any size (it is one beat on the licecap posted for the sake of gif size);
4. Toggle repeat on;
5. Start recording and play some notes on every pass.

Item doesn't "grow" here.

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-02-2016 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
Are you sure you're not using a template startup project? In my case that was it - there was something corrupted in the template project. Unless the bug returned for some reason. I'm not at the PC at the moment, but I will try to replicate it later.
No template, fresh portable install on a different drive.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Win8.1, REAPER 5.1 x64


Stil can't reproduce with these steps

Item doesn't "grow" here.
Ok, thanks for trying again.
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robu_23 View Post
No template, fresh portable install on a different drive.
I just did a fresh portable install of v5.1 and I can't reproduce the bug. Chances are there is something conflicting with Reaper on your PC, just like it was in my case. Do you have access to another PC for testing? I would also try that.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
I just did a fresh portable install of v5.1 and I can't reproduce the bug. Chances are there is something conflicting with Reaper on your PC, just like it was in my case. Do you have access to another PC for testing? I would also try that.
Hi, thanks for the replies.

I tried this on the laptop last night and I got same result. Also tried it on a portable install on the work's PC, same issue. I'm definitely not using a project template and the Reaper.ini file is different on the work's PC.

Slightly different steps than Neutronic's to replicate
1. New Project
2. Insert virtual instrument on new track (ReaSynth just for testing)
3. Draw in 1 bar midi item
4. Set loop/time selection to 1 bar (they're linked)
5. Change track to overdub record
6. Record, let it run a few passes
7. Press stop, check length of midi item

It's the wrong length every time

Since loop item source is disabled during or after overdub recording (why???), re-enabling loop item source from the context menu creates an item longer than 4 measures when dragging out the right edge of the item

Glueing the item within the time selection resolves the issue, but it shouldn't really be happening in the first place, IMO...
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Old 11-30-2015, 06:28 AM   #15
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I've just tried your method, but still can't reproduce it. Also re-enabling loop item source does not change item's length here. By the way, do you use 64-bit Reaper? Because that's the version I'm testing in.

EDIT: I've just tried my normal installation and re-enabling loop item source changed the length there. It didn't happen in the fresh installation.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
I've just tried your method, but still can't reproduce it. Also re-enabling loop item source does not change item's length here. By the way, do you use 64-bit Reaper? Because that's the version I'm testing in.

EDIT: I've just tried my normal installation and re-enabling loop item source changed the length there. It didn't happen in the fresh installation.
Sorry, I should have reported my set up - Win10 Pro on main audio PC, Win 10 Home on the laptop, both 64bit, REAPER 5.1 64bit on both.

The laptop install was a fresh install but I imported the config from the main Audio PC. The Audio PC was an upgrade over existing 4.7x version.

I can try a from scratch install, but as I mentioned above, I get the same issue with a fresh portable install which should be completely independent of any full install..

Let me do a couple more tests and I'll report back. Thanks for following up!
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:14 AM   #17
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Ok, another quick test. Works PC, Windows 7 64bit, Reaper 64bit portable install to new directory. Everything is set to default, using Direct Sound as the audio device. (it's ASIO on my audio pc, wasapi on the laptop)

1. New project
2. Insert virtual instrument on new track (ReaSynth)
3. Draw new midi item for 1 bar
4. Set loop/time selection to 1 bar
5. Change recording mode to overdub
6. Turn on Repeat
7. Hit record, let it run for a couple of bars
8. Press stop
9. Open item properties, the midi item properties - this is what I get



If I then set 'Loop item source' then drag out the item, I get this




I've tested on 3 different computers, 3 different OS's, three different installs (portable, full fresh, full upgrade), and I can replicate this every time...

Benjamin over at Playtime thinks this is probably a Reaper bug, since it happens when overdubbing clips in Playtime too - he is implementing a workaround fix which is to glue the item after overdubbing, but it would be better if it worked as expected...

Rob
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:19 AM   #18
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I can also replicate this with a full install on my work PC
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:04 AM   #19
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Ok, reproduced with Record mode "normal"!


With both "Auto punch" record modes it doesn't happen. With these the item also retains it's loop setting.


FIXED (5.16)

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-03-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Ok, reproduced with Record mode "normal"![

With both "Auto punch" record modes it doesn't happen. With these the item also retains it's loop setting.
Thanks for checking again, Dstruct.

Any devs listening in?
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:07 PM   #21
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Default One of the worst bugs of any DAW

I can reproduce it every time.
Time consuming with MIDI work.

Veery annoying!!!

Makes looping problematic. I have to check if looping is right every time zooming in zooming out.
Just incredible BUG!
Never experienced such a crap in any DAW.

If developers won't fix it I am going to make YT video that will make the problem louder.
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:58 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ArcoZ View Post
I can reproduce it every time.
Time consuming with MIDI work.

Veery annoying!!!

Makes looping problematic. I have to check if looping is right every time zooming in zooming out.
Just incredible BUG!
Never experienced such a crap in any DAW.

If developers won't fix it I am going to make YT video that will make the problem louder.
No need to throw your toys out of the pram (or buggy, depending on your locale)

Worth a bump though - Devs, I know you're usually wrapped in the latest Pre's, but can you take a look? Having to glue the overdubbed item is a bit tedious.. Cheers.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:11 PM   #23
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I'll take a look at this -- for now use the auto punch modes?
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:38 PM   #24
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Fixes coming in 5.16!
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Fixes coming in 5.16!
w00t !

Many thanks, Justin
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Old 03-03-2016, 01:00 PM   #26
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FIXED (5.16)
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:57 AM   #27
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Seems to work fine now.
I'm in heaven.

That bug was incredibly annoying to me.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:13 AM   #28
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Sorry to resurrect this again, it's still not quite right..

Testing on 5.16, fresh portable install. Win7 64, Reaper 64

Loop and time selection linked
1 bar loop/time selection
Insert two tracks
Set both to MIDI overdub recording
Set both to receive all midi inputs
Set one track with input quantize (1/16)
Active repeat
Record mode normal
Hit Record
Enter some notes on virtual midi keyboard
Loop around a few times, hit stop
Compare sizes of the items on the two tracks.
The unquantized track is exactly 4 measures
The quantized track is 4.02292 measures
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:17 AM   #29
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Confirmed. Input Quantizing gives incorrect item lenght with time selection = loop selection lenght.

FIXED (5.20pre19)

Last edited by Dstruct; 03-11-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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