Old 11-15-2015, 12:16 PM   #1
cerendir
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Default TX16Wx amd Expression (CC#11)

As I'm not getting any useful help on the TX16Wx forum, I'm reposting this question here, in case anyone knows.

How the heck do you go about making TX16Wx respond to midi Expression? I've experimented for days without getting any closer to an answer, in fact the hints that elcallio dropped makes it all the more confusing.

How do you set AMP to zero when it's not even an editable parameter anywhere on the interface?

I'm stumped.
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Old 11-15-2015, 12:20 PM   #2
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and* ...has nothing to do with AMD :P
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
As I'm not getting any useful help on the TX16Wx forum, I'm reposting this question here, in case anyone knows.

How the heck do you go about making TX16Wx respond to midi Expression? I've experimented for days without getting any closer to an answer, in fact the hints that elcallio dropped makes it all the more confusing.

How do you set AMP to zero when it's not even an editable parameter anywhere on the interface?

I'm stumped.
Hi cerendir, I don't have any suggestions for you, I kind of gave up on TX16Wx a while back. I still think it's one of the better free and/or low cost samplers out there. My interest in it was to be able to create free instruments for other folks, but I found there were things I either couldn't do, or couldn't figure out how to do without taking a lot of time.

Maybe to clear up some confusion, CC11 Expression is really just another glorified name for volume. The most important thing is that it will be used to control another volume control, other than the one that CC7 usually controls.

I think that's where the AMP part comes in elcallio's reply and it may well be based on Groups of some kind.

In a normal general Kontakt instrument, we will have CC7 as the main volume output for the instrument. However, inside there is also the Amplifier which will be Group based, each group will have it's own amplifier. That's where CC11 is usually applied.

I don't know if this helps or not, but there's one thing I would like to suggest cerendir. With your talent and midi programming chops, I can't recommend Kontakt enough, I truly believe it will end your search for the best sampler, if indeed that's what you want.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:44 PM   #4
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Thanks for your reply Tod!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Maybe to clear up some confusion, CC11 Expression is really just another glorified name for volume.
Well, yes and no. Expression is proportional volume, a percentage of volume if you will (even though it has 128 steps instead of 100).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I think that's where the AMP part comes in elcallio's reply and it may well be based on Groups of some kind.
I thought as much, but there's still the problem with how to go about setting AMP to zero when there's no UI parameter for it. And moreover, if you're not supposed to use modulation for changing it -- then what are you supposed to use? Honestly I don't understand why something as common as CC#11 isn't supported by default, just like modulation or pitch bend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
In a normal general Kontakt instrument, we will have CC7 as the main volume output for the instrument. However, inside there is also the Amplifier which will be Group based, each group will have it's own amplifier. That's where CC11 is usually applied.
Yep, that makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I don't know if this helps or not, but there's one thing I would like to suggest cerendir. With your talent and midi programming chops, I can't recommend Kontakt enough, I truly believe it will end your search for the best sampler, if indeed that's what you want.
You're not the first one to say this and it looks like I'm going to have to go down this route sooner or later.
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:43 AM   #5
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I reckon that you can stay with TX16Wx.

"AEG Amp" is stated to be the AEG amount. As far as I can see it is not displayed on the GUI. And is is just named "Amp" in the User Guide (the first Destination in 6.4.10).

From my investigations and diagnosis here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...f=213&t=450228
I reckon that it has a default value of 1.00.

Now, an entry can be made in the Modulation Table:
Expression (or another CC#) >> AEG Amp, with a modulation value of -1. So the range of the AEG Amp control will be from 1 to (1-1 = ) 0, depending on the MIDI CC message data value.

It might by calculated as: AEG Amp = 1 + (-1 * CC_value/127). The higher the CC data value the lower the amplitude (yes, that's slightly counter-intuitive).

Here is the result I get:



To resolve the counter-intuitivity you might like to use this JS FX (attached) just before TX16Wx:

.
Attached Files
File Type: txt MIDI_CC_Flipper_DS.txt (1.5 KB, 191 views)
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
Well, yes and no. Expression is proportional volume, a percentage of volume if you will (even though it has 128 steps instead of 100).
Yes I should have mentioned that, in Kontatkt it will be proportional to the Group Amplifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
I reckon that you can stay with TX16Wx.

"AEG Amp" is stated to be the AEG amount. As far as I can see it is not displayed on the GUI. And is is just named "Amp" in the User Guide (the first Destination in 6.4.10).

From my investigations and diagnosis here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...f=213&t=450228
I reckon that it has a default value of 1.00.

Now, an entry can be made in the Modulation Table:
Expression (or another CC#) >> AEG Amp, with a modulation value of -1. So the range of the AEG Amp control will be from 1 to (1-1 = ) 0, depending on the MIDI CC message data value.

It might by calculated as: AEG Amp = 1 + (-1 * CC_value/127). The higher the CC data value the lower the amplitude (yes, that's slightly counter-intuitive).

Here is the result I get:



To resolve the counter-intuitivity you might like to use this JS FX (attached) just before TX16Wx:

.
Wow DS, you did it again.

You're great, you come up with answers to almost everything.
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Now, an entry can be made in the Modulation Table:
Expression (or another CC#) >> AEG Amp, with a modulation value of -1. So the range of the AEG Amp control will be from 1 to (1-1 = ) 0, depending on the MIDI CC message data value.
But... that's what I had originally?! Based on Elcallio's comments about us confusing modulation with control, I got the impression there was some different and better way to do it :|

It kinda sucks having to use a separate plugin to reverse the values... this really feels like an oddly implemented feature.

Thanks though DarkStar!
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:03 AM   #8
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^^^^
Yes, you did - and that's where I started my investigations - it was a matter of working out how and why it worked as it did.

Now, IF we could set the AEG Amp value to 0 then we could set the Modulation Amount to 1 and the higher the CC data value the more the modulation. No need for the Flipper.
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