Old 11-22-2015, 03:26 AM   #1
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Default ReaPack: Package Manager for REAPER (developers thread)

This thread raised idea of creating common library of scripts, written by REAPER users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfillion View Post
ReaPack v1.0

The first stable version is released!
Thanks to everyone for the support and involvement throughout the development process!

Announcement thread at https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177978
Official website: http://reapack.com/
X-Raym article about ReaPack
Video from REAPER Blog

To developers, please update your repositories to v1.1


-- old post --
If Cockos include JS from community members, why them not include scripts, extensions, etc. And which way including third-party JS in official release was in the past?
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Old 11-22-2015, 04:44 AM   #2
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I suppose if a script exists to do something, it doesn't need to be added natively. A JSFX is not added like that, but just added to the distribution (and only particular, really good/useful JSFX achieve this).

Is there any point in adding scripts that are already available? Due to the complexity comparison and likelyhood of scripts being updated, it doesn't seem worth adding the potential management task of having scripts distributed. The really good stuff should be in SWS for the masses anyway -should that be your next step mpl..?



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Old 11-22-2015, 05:19 AM   #3
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SWS is C++ which I only started to learn, unfortunately. Yep, i guess it is next stage of getting work things I dream about (full mouse control, get/send OSC from script level, working with base64 etc until all of this currently not supported natively because of different reasons)

Good thing is SWS positioning itself this way:
Quote:
The SWS / S&M extension is a collection of features that seamlessly integrate into REAPER
I mean, this not says "SWS is C++ only" and it could contains scripts also.

I already talked with X-Raym about common scripts library, but we haven`t actually some kind of friendship beetween scripters as SWS have (because of donation reasons maybe). If spk77, HeDa, X-Raym, airon and you maybe say "Yes, we want to be a part a big thing", I could create a repo of our scripts in GitHub and give username/password to all of you guys (to give you possibility to edit your part of repo as you want + maybe create related thread in forum as SWS have + links for donation for each member + links to source repos or reaper stash links), so we will have awesome scripts library which can be a new SWS part if it will be OK for SWS developers OR to be a new "extension" (not C++, wide meaning), which I found better and more logical and independent than if it was part of SWS.

Quote:
I suppose if a script exists to do something, it doesn't need to be added natively.
Yes, if you know where to search. Imagine if every part of SWS was scattered across Internet. I guess, even cool things wouldn`t be popular like today. I didn`t mean to add it natively, but as a script (also editable as JS), sorry for bad explanation.

And I guess, Notation editor is schwa Lua script? If so, why not add at least simple scripts for learning basic things and for quick overview what scripts can do actions can't. This could be itemfft.lua from lol, some of X-Raym scripts etc. As Breeder says somethere (and I totally agree with him), scripts is future of Reaper. It is quickly editable, easy to learn, easy to build something from scratch even without closing Reaper and opening external editor.

So, I think, we must create a collaboration at least to have all we did in one place. Because if we will not, other people will do that, and I`m not sure it will looks good. I already saw these thoughts on russian forum and private talks with reaper users.
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:15 AM   #4
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I hope you guys do manage to come together as a team.
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:55 AM   #5
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If it starts as a common area in GitHub to put scripts for people to find easily, I'm up for it. Not all of my scripts ever make it out of beta but I create them for stimulation for other scripters or my own workflows anyway (I'm no great or even trained programmer). If all it takes is to set up a GitHub account at no cost, do it and count me in.

To keep this on proper formal Golgafrincham design committee guidelines, what shall we call ourselves and what colour will it be?



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Old 11-22-2015, 11:12 AM   #6
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Hmm, maybe this:
User ReaScripts collection
ReaScripts User Library
REAPER Scripts
User Scripts for REAPER

Though to have any script direct address as clear as possible I would name it just ReaScripts. I imagine this should looks like this:
mpl
  • FX
  • Items
  • etc
X-Raym
  • Color
  • Item properties
  • etc
planetnine
  • if there is no directory, leave files in folder
I first though it should be only one folder with categories without sorting by scripter name. But repo categorized by scripter name makes possible to quickly update from original repo (for example if someone wants to have own repo at previous place), and also it is better for user to see which one he wants to donate for mostly useful stuff.
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Old 11-22-2015, 12:06 PM   #7
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Having a package manager interface in the future where we can browse, install and manage scripts would be great. Something like this:



This could feed on some index generated automatically from the repository structure... And/or metadata in a comment block a the start of scripts... Of course this is easier to say than to do.

------

I think having a top-level directory by author makes browsing through scripts harder than necessary:

/Author1/Envelope/ScriptA.lua
/Author2/Envelope/ScriptB.lua

vs

/Envelope -> list of all envelope-related scripts
/Envelope/ScriptA.lua
/Envelope/ScriptB.lua

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Old 11-22-2015, 12:21 PM   #8
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cfillion, maybe you`re right about structure like /category/author_scriptname. Cannot decide which way is better. To the end user I guess categories is better, but it says, every contributor should manualy add every of his scripts to the right folder each to prevent mess.

Btw, would you like to be a part of this?

Manager is great idea, but for me its hard to implement (as said I don`t know C++ yet). Although reading/editing reaper-kb.ini is possible, downloading also possible from script.
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Old 11-22-2015, 01:33 PM   #9
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From a user point of view,
and JS.

It's really hard to know what's good stuff and what's not.
And, I guess it would be the same with scripts.
So, I'd very much like some browsing-system that would allow rating, user-comments, date and tags.

Commitment to maintenance and updates are also very important for long-term usability.

The SWS-team is fairly good here.

That said,
scripts and 3rd party contributions are a vital part of Reaper,
and with v5 EEL and LUA seems very promising.
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
From a user point of view,
and JS.

It's really hard to know what's good stuff and what's not.
And, I guess it would be the same with scripts.
So, I'd very much like some browsing-system that would allow rating, user-comments, date and tags.

...a bit like the stash, you mean?



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Old 11-22-2015, 08:44 PM   #11
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How would such a repository be maintained?

Scenario 1: Every script author who ask for it gets write access so they can push their scripts and update them.
That's a little dangerous as there would be no protections on who can edit what (git history can be rewritten...).

Scenario 2: Only a few trusted people gets write access. Everyone else has to send their script as a pull request and wait for a contributor to review and merge it (a bit like homebrew).

Scenario 3: A stash-like system with versioning, script categories, ratings, comments... Every ReaScript author on the planet has immediate write access to their own scripts (like rubygems does it).

Scenario 4: ?

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Old 11-22-2015, 09:11 PM   #12
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About rating. Reaper stash of good place, but even if you filter search results by popularity/rating it will not good results.

So I like Scenario 2, it is scheme with more safety.
This evening I`ll try to build something for test at least to view how it could be looks like. Or it could be based on my repo which is already categorized, but needs to edit readme only.
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:10 PM   #13
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I'm for scenario 3 to start with and scenario 2 for projects the authors wants to share with specific people, which is usually fellow scripters.

I suggest GPL3 licenses for scripts, so others can build stuff off it, and keeping the source open is a given anyway.

A script repository, accessible to the beginning user from inside Reaper(and its website) is the most important thing to me. If you do not know it exists, you can't use it. It is way more likely users will discover these scripts in Reaper than via a forum post. It might as well be accessible, and could lead to all kinds of nice resource sharing.
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Old 11-23-2015, 02:01 AM   #14
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I don't think anybody rates anything in the stash outside the Themer crowd. To be honest most people link to the file in the forum, rather than the page in the stash anyway, so the user never sees the stash as such.

I tend to link to the page if there are notes or instructions, release notes, etc with the scripts, but I don't think I've ever had a file rated. Nobody uses it, they leave their feedback on the forums.

Is it possible to have a group stash account, with upload rights given to members, but admin rights held by (say) mpl and a staff member? how friendly is GitHub in comparison?

I think we need to be called "Wolf Team Alpha".



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Old 11-23-2015, 03:18 AM   #15
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Yes this has been discussed before
I agree that a list of available scripts with a one click button to download and install/uninstall them would be great. With integrated EEL and Lua support is not as difficult as it was before when you had to install python first etc. And not all DAWs are connected to Internet.
I don't see any problem to host the scripts in stash as they are now. But there should be a program or script that should read a list of officially available scripts in some database somewhere, with their stash download urls. These scripts should have a common way to be installed/uninstalled, which folder etc. I think it is a good idea to have a subfolder with the author name inside the scripts folder. So the program could download the script and install it and add it to REAPER actions.
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Old 11-23-2015, 04:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
...a bit like the stash, you mean?
I didn't actually see rating/comments in stash before now.
If that tells more about me or stash I don't know
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Old 11-23-2015, 04:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
With integrated EEL and Lua support is not as difficult as it was before when you had to install python first etc.
This is very much true.
With Python I some times felt I had to be deep into the esoteric circles of coding, just to install scripts.
But, with EEL and LUA now, I find it quite simple and easy.

But, of course, installer that even loads scripts into action-menu would be even better.

A problem with community-stuff is that it's always easy to include/add stuff, but hard to delete/leave-out less good/functional/updated/pretty contributions.
So, in the end, it often looks like a large pile, that's not so appealing to wade through.
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Old 11-23-2015, 01:02 PM   #18
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Ok, now firstly sorry guys if I doing things very impertinently, but if I willn`t do this way, we will never implement this. We will just talking instead do something.

What I did.
Using GitHub as more elegant platform for developing I created "organisation" called ReaTeam. I suppose this could contains JS repo also (and maybe some other future text things, like oscii-bot stuff), so I didn`t name it by something related to scripts only. Then I create a repo called ReaScripts
I add to members HeDa, X-Raym, Breeder because I know only they have GitHub account.

planetnine, airon, cfillion, spk77, if you like it you can create GitHub account and let me know your username so I can add you as member.

As I understood, only members can edit repo or accept pull requests. Speaking about common library, I supposed it should be limited and not everyone can be a member (though everyone still can create pull requests and members can accept it, if this coud be useful).

To make repo "works" I firstly add my repository (except test folder) to common repo and also add this scripts just for overview how it could looks like (if you guys against it, I can delete it):
EDIT: thanks to Breeder recommendations I temporary removed my scripts to add they later with names without underscores and better self-explained.

I also thought about common header like X-Raym have in any of his script and I`ve got this is useful, but hard to implement, because everyone have different habits of script "decoration". So at least self-explained script name like "author_scriptname.lua" will be enough I guess.

About categories. I like X-Raym sorting, but I also find long folder names a bit dirty, so maybe folder should contain as less words as possible (ex "Track" instead "Track Properties").

Reaper stash is good. And it is possible to make a script which will download "static" (or not?) scripts using "official" list of links, but note, a lot of scripts packed into zip packages, a lot of script posted only deep in forum, or they can be even uploaded to somehosting and of course link will be unavailable soon).

Hope I didn`t something wrong, because I believe this idea, and this is cheapest way to implement this. What you thoughts about it, guys?
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Old 11-23-2015, 01:24 PM   #19
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You can never go wrong in this type of thing by taking action, so thanks mpl!
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Old 11-23-2015, 01:32 PM   #20
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emailed



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Old 11-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #21
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Very cool idea, mpl! Thanks, and keep on being impertinent
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Old 11-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #22
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Thanks, that's a good step forward and it just works.
My github username is cfillion just like here, I'll be glad to push my scripts there.

So the naming convention is "$shortCategory/$author_$shortDescriptionWithoutUnderscores"?
EDIT: $author<Underscore> or $author<Space>?

In the meantime I got this to work yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/hkWjsKB.png.
Now I'll figure out how to download a file (to-be script listing) using WDL's http client... (Or I'll just use curl but I'd prefer not to bring any external libraries...)

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Old 11-23-2015, 02:26 PM   #23
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planetnine, cfillion, thanks, sent invite!

cfillion, wow, I though you posted photoshopped picture But it is real, so I`m very excited for this (...С++ extension, I guess?) !
$author<Underscore>$shortDescriptionWithoutUndersc ores, yes. I just noticed I was wrong, renamed some of my stuff there. User needs to define where scripter name ends.
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Old 11-23-2015, 03:02 PM   #24
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Well the picture in my first post (#7) was just a mockup I quickly wrote using the Qt framework (C++), and not running inside of REAPER.

The picture in #22 is the "real thing". There is a long way from a simple Hello World dialog to a working prototype (and I'm new to WDL and the Win32/Win32-like API so that's extra work).

EDIT: Got the file downloading code working.

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Old 11-23-2015, 03:16 PM   #25
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My $0.02...

Cockos already has The Stash with a script category so .... imo... mmv as usual...

- All good scripts should probably be uploaded there.
- Reaper should list those things directly from inside it's browser.

It is 2015 after all. How hard would it really be to browse the Stash from - inside - of Reaper and grab / install anything there directly?

I often regret mentioning my other daw but it's really kind of a no-brainer. Browse the net from inside the app to see and list - everything - that users would share with each other and grab any or all of it. They're already paying for the server anyway so why (after 10 years) it's still not integrated into the application is beyond me.

It's certainly not because Justin, arguably the inventor of modern file sharing, can't code http or ftp transport.

Honestly, why reinvent the wheel? Just list that stuff directly like enough other products do and if you need a new script or drum map or macro or theme or whatever, drag it in to install it and use it or whatever...



The other companies (like Mixcraft) partly do it for "content" (loop and sample media). Reaper has no optional content other than user scripts, themes, fx chains, track templates, etc, etc ... but... same concept.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:01 PM   #26
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Stash is not versioned - there is no process to work collaboratively - its impossible to find anything.

Git is an open standard - you can keep your software updated with a single command - folks can offer to pull and improve - there's even a built in issues system etc etc etc.

I say right-on mpl and crew - I look forward to seeing the repo evolve.
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Old 11-23-2015, 06:02 PM   #27
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The stash is weak. Lawrence is talking Stash 2.0. and it's nigh time, but Justin is busy.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Cockos already has The Stash with a script category
You`re right, but look at this https://stash.reaper.fm/tag/Scripts
Does this really look easy to explore to regular user? Gif, pngs, zip`s etc, everything is in "scripts". Search will works here if know what to search. Does you always know how exactly named script?

I was OK with Stash until I has 5 spk77 scripts I found for my workflow which were really useful. But when you have a lot of working scripts stuff you often use, downloading/updating all this stuff makes me crazy, because people can share their work in zip, so you will need to download, unpack, and maybe also rename script you want to update to keep shortcuts etc. Or they can even update scripts just by uploading another file, so you willn`t know is new version (maybe more stable, or with GUI) exists.

Here I can look on X-Raym repo for example. Once I needed to find some envelope script and I knew that placed somewhere in X-Raym folder. Imagine how much time I would spend to search it in stash among 500+ scripts if I forgot its name. But if I can search dedicated folder like /X-Raym/Envelopes searching process seems much shorter.

For me it is better to download one repo to keep key shortcuts/toolbars working after updating without any mess. And as we see, it could be base for getting work script manager potentially. With current stash it is impossible because it is full of unsorted "categorized" trash. I can wait until Justin & team do Stash 2.0, but why if I can make scripts collection downloadable all-in-one by one button, or even auto-update so it willn`t contain any non-relevant trash. Only strongly categorized scripts which aren`t "beta", "for test", "old version", "first try", etc

If didn`t point it well, I repeat I don`t want to advise users use one repo for sharing. Not, it wasn`t created for this! I want it to be "Favorites" from Cockos forum, stash, other forums, other repos etc. So only few members who already did a lot of useful code, can edit their stuff inside common repo (edit: and pull commits).
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:24 PM   #29
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There needs to be quality control, so that end users can find the latest scripts that are debugged, up to date and ready to use.

The stash is only meant for final releases and doesn't function well for works in progress.

You are doing the right thing.
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Old 11-23-2015, 10:07 PM   #30
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We can create a poll in which users will choose a decent script, which will be included in the distribution.

Sorry for my english.
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:32 AM   #31
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There are scripters who wants to share their scripts nowhere except their own site/git page/forum/stash. So it is impossible to let users decide what to include in the pack by poll.

So I suggest:
  • if you are an author:
    Use Fork-> Pull request
    Write me pm (if you have many useful scripts, you can be a member of collaboration, I think it is normal)
  • you are just user and you found something useful:
    Write me pm with link to author and suggested script to let me contact with author if I didn`t contact yet

One more thing I didn`t define yet should we add Python scripts into the pack or leave only EEL/Lua as natively supported and easy to install?
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:40 AM   #32
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Following this.
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:53 AM   #33
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I found a thread which was started by X-Raym in march 2015. I like ideas (gifs, explanaition, etc), but nothing was implemented due to different reasons, so that is why I decided to start building something. For now it could be "early beta" and in the future different ideas of you guys will be implemented which will let end user use that repo easily.

And if we speak about auto-update we`ll should add to any new script default header (author, supported REAPER/SWS version, tags maybe, related forum thread) to make it being used for future dedicated auto-update/manager extension (or script). For now it just thoughts.
Btw, X-Raym already do it this way:
Code:
/**
 * Display selected tracks and takes color in the console
 * EEL Script for Reaper
 * Displays tracks and takes color in RGB and HEX values in the console.
 * Author: X-Raym
 * Author URl: http://extremraym.com
 * Reposotory: GitHub > X-Raym > EEL Scripts for Cockos REAPER
 * Repository URl: https://github.com/X-Raym/REAPER-EEL-Scripts
 * Source URl: https://github.com/X-Raym/REAPER-EEL-Scripts/Display selected tracks and takes color in the console.eel
 * Licence: GPL v3
 * Forum Thread: Script: Display selected tracks and takes color in the console
 * Forum Thread URl: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1480557#post1480557
 * Version: 1.0
 * Version Date: 2015-15-02
 * REAPER: 4.76
 */
Look what Breeeder said then:
Quote:
...Why not use GitHub instead? Each script author forks the main repo and does a pull request to merge changes back when ready. Less work for the people in charge of the main repo, users can access scripts in progress before they are merged (sort of like beta) and contributors only need to respect certain rules (like naming conventions and folder hierarchy) instead of writing lengthy mails...that's what GitHub is for ..

And after GitHub repo is done, we can discuss a best way on how to access it directly from REAPER or from some other website
Quote:
Every developer who wants to be taken seriously should know and understand git already (and if not, he/she should be willing to learn it since it's awesome and de facto standard for managing code)...it's already so prevalent. GitHub is not a platform per se, it's just a service that lets you put git repositories online and make sharing and contributing to them easier. You could use any other git service or even host your own, it's just that GitHub is free, good, has API to pull stuff from it and quite prevalent so no need to reinvent the wheel here
Quote:
Not to mention that updating scripts will be much easier since nobody will have to contact you directly, they would simply do a pull request on GitHub and once merged the updates would be automatically available from the web site (since it simply pulls information from the GitHub via it's API) or auto updater script/extension in REAPER
Same thoughts here.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:12 AM   #34
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Thanks for taking this to another level mpl!
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:40 AM   #35
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The stash is weak. Lawrence is talking Stash 2.0. and it's nigh time....
Exactly. Forget what the stash looks like on the Internet page. Imagine it in your daw browser or similar... like just about every other major daw already kinda does in one way or another. Not sure how git would be better than that, simply opening a browser tab and seeing all of that right under your fingertips, with relevant details.

It's all just data. Simple file links. It can be presented to the user in Reaper any way the developer chooses.

Why would any user prefer to do a pull request from GitHub if it can be listed right there in the daw at any time to just click and use? (Just asking btw, not arguing)
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:00 AM   #36
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I would suggest limiting to EEL/Lua.

otherwise you will wind up fielding questions about Python installations and compatibilities by users trying out the package...

My .02
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:39 AM   #37
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Scripts are really important to a handful of users here. Literally everyone that cares about scripts is in this thread.

I know scripts are powerful, I talk about them as much as I can on the blog and videos.

The problem is that the average user is not here on the forum, they don't want user written scripts and they don't care that they exist. I don't know how to fix that.

FL studio has an additional content browser/downloader. I always found it useful because so much of it was free and the standard download was much smaller.

I *think* it could be something easily added to reaper, with the devs only allowing their approved 3rd party downloads.
Scripts, sample libraries, themes, icon sets, js fx, OMF importer?

Keeps the install small, makes reviewers and new users happy that there are included sounds to get started with.
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Old 11-24-2015, 03:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
...
The problem is that the average user is not here on the forum, they don't want user written scripts and they don't care that they exist. I don't know how to fix that.

...
I don't think you will until an easily browsed repository gets itself a reputation as "the place to go" for at least a core of "can't do without" workflow enhancing scripts.

People do take an interest in scripts if they're a serious user and meet a problem that is difficult to surmount with the native feature set.

Now that scripting is much easier and powerful with EEL and Lua, and the API includes nearly everything you could need, more curious, technically-adept users will find their way here to learn and download; that path and the existance of scripts and the scripters themselves will become more common knowledge over in the normal forums for when those custom "workflow pills" are needed.

Any unified source of quality script actions and tools is certainly only going to help access to the unitiated. It's just got to look friendly, be easy to navigate, positive to search and contain some good stuff -people will then get sent there in the same way as they are pointed to the SWS extensions.


People, normal people are inherently lazy and like to be spoonfed and within their comfort-zone. It's just a little too geeky and off the beaten path at the moment for most to find their way to scripts on their own. I keep looking for user problems in Gen Disc and Q+A that can be solved with a script, and it's all exposure. Be good to all give them a common link to go look for themselves...



>
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
And if we speak about auto-update we`ll should add to any new script default header (author, supported REAPER/SWS version, tags maybe, related forum thread) to make it being used for future dedicated auto-update/manager extension (or script). For now it just thoughts.
Yes a header format like that will be necessary for an automated manager. I'm not sure about duplicating the author name since it is already part of the file name?

I experimented today on a way to parse and validate these metadata when a commit or a pull request is made:

https://github.com/cfillion/test_reascript_metadata



This is done with a custom parser tool and Travis CI (a free service for running automated tests). For now it only supports required, optional "keys" or regex matching.

Code:
RULES = {
  :desc => MetaHeader::REQUIRED,       # @desc cannot be omitted
  :version => /\A\d+\.\d+(?:\.\d+)?\z/ # @version must be valid
}
-----

These metadata should probably be indexed in some sort of database, that the manager can download and use as the list of available scripts.
This can be built automatically (triggered by a GitHub hook). Though I'm unsure about the right format to use and where it should be hosted (probably in the repository if it's a plain-text file)...

Last edited by cfillion; 11-24-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:50 PM   #40
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You're right. No need author name in header, cause it is in script name.
These thing are should be strongly discussed while active developing manager and when more people will follow and support this repo. As you see, still there are't any external/internal commits except me yet.
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