Old 12-25-2015, 11:05 AM   #1
Big A
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Default Waves Vocal Rider sidechain

Greetings all,
Against my best efforts, I admit that I have become somewhat of a Waves junkie. I know there is great freeware out there, but who has the time to preview dozens of freebies to get that good one? Anyway, I'm sure this has been discussed, but a quick search has yielded no answers. I use the VST3 version of the plug and cannot find how to sidechain to the music bus. I did read in another forum, that it now works in Reaper since they now support VST3. The demo's show a magic tab that opens up a sidechain insert option. I have found no such tab. Even without sidechain I believe the plug will be useful, but I would like to use all the features. Thank in advance for any help or suggestions.
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:30 PM   #2
The_Nimaj
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You need to route your Music Bus to the vocal track (with the plugin on it) as a send. Then when the send dialog pops up you need to select 1/2 ==> 3/4.

It should look similar to this:
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nimaj View Post
You need to route your Music Bus to the vocal track (with the plugin on it) as a send. Then when the send dialog pops up you need to select 1/2 ==> 3/4.

It should look similar to this:
in the music bus should I put also the send/return fx? like reverb, delay, etc..
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:51 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ry_cooder View Post
in the music bus should I put also the send/return fx? like reverb, delay, etc..
bump!
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:08 PM   #5
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I'm right there with you. I simply cannot figure this out and unfortunately have not had any luck from the Reaper forum. I submitted a ticket with Waves and hopefully they'll respond. I'll put their response on this thread. And his is what I wrote to them (just a few minutes ago):


I've searched high and low to find the answer on how to use Vocal Rider in Reaper, as it is intended to be used via side-chaining. However, I simply cannot figure out the exact steps to take and sadly the Reaper community hasn't been able to help with this so far either. This plugin you have developed will be a god send to me once I know how to use it with my DAW and I hope that you have someone on staff that is familiar enough with Reaper to explain it to me. I'll then post it to the Reaper forum and hopefully help you sell a few more units too! Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:27 AM   #6
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Here is an example on how to set sidechain in Reaper.

We’ll set the Vocal Track to receive the sidechain from a playback stereo track.

i. Click on the Lead Vocal’s “Route” button. Set “Track Channels” to “4”. (Or less if it’s Mono)
This will enable the Vocal track to receive audio signals from other channels.

ii. Drag the Playback Track’s “Route” button on the Vocal Track’s “Route” button.



iii. This will create a new Send track going from the Music Track to Vocal Track.
Set Audio 1/2 to 3/4. Our plug-in’s sidechain will receive from 3/4 in the next steps.

You can choose between “Post Fader” or “Pre Fader”, and determine the gain.

iv. In the Vocal Rider window, click on “4 in 2 out” (Or 1 in 2 out if it’s Mono) in order to open the “Plug-In Pin Connector”.
v.
We’ll need to connect 3 and 4 to “Stereo Aux” in the patch. (Not to Stereo In because that’s the input, not the sidechain’s / auxiliary’s input)



You’ll notice that the Vocal Rider’s Music knob is now enabled because the sidechain is receiving the signal.
Attached Images
File Type: png unnamed1.png (22.2 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg unnamed2.jpg (16.3 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg unnamed3.jpg (16.3 KB, 99 views)
File Type: png unnamed4.png (44.1 KB, 107 views)
File Type: png unnamed5.png (28.7 KB, 120 views)
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:05 PM   #7
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Thanks for all this help - but I have tried *everything* to get the sidechain working properly, without success.

Can someone describe, step-by-step,a proven WORKING method to have MUSIC on track 2 get DUCKED by 12dB when there is a VOICE-OVER on track 1? *really* frustrating...

I am running the VST3 version; I have my IO pins set up properly, according to the above diagram; but STILL - the MUSIC is ducking the MUSIC - I want the DIALOGUE to duck the MUSIC.
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:50 PM   #8
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I decided to forego Vocal Rider for ReaComp - it works flawlessly for ducking music under dialogue...
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:00 AM   #9
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I thought the s/c on Vocal Rider did the opposite of ducking to bring up the vocals when the music is louder and reduce when quieter?
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Old 11-05-2017, 03:27 AM   #10
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Pls see this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tt5yWOxB2E
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:21 PM   #11
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This is driving me crazy. I can get Vocal Rider to work, but then the vocal send to the delay plug-in is muted.

I had no problem using it in Logic X.
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:19 PM   #12
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Well you'd have to explain in detail where the vocal send to the delay is coming from and where vocal rider is inserted if you actually want some help with that.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645 View Post
Well you'd have to explain in detail where the vocal send to the delay is coming from and where vocal rider is inserted if you actually want some help with that.
I was just venting. I'm going to work on it more tonight. Many of the reasons why I love REAPER are the reasons why I get frustrated with REAPER.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenkeith View Post
This is driving me crazy. I can get Vocal Rider to work, but then the vocal send to the delay plug-in is muted.

I had no problem using it in Logic X.

I hope you figure out how to get it to work.

However, if you can't, then I suggest you check out TBProAudio Gain Rider 2

It's free; the demo version stops functionality after 90 secs, which can be rearmed by mouse click on the reset button. Just click the button while it is running and it is 100% functional. Not a big deal; it works great, and you only need to do this once, if you print the output as an automated envelop.!

http://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/gainrider.html

Here is a Reaper thread that discusses how to print envelops: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=187774

I've never used Vocal Rider, so I can't compare, but let me say that I really like Gain Rider. A lot!

I use it, not only on Vocals, but instruments too. It's like a compressor, sort of...

How awesome is it? I can't even begin to describe all the neat features, but my favorite thing is that it is VERY REAPER FRIENDLY. Amongst other things,it prints out an envelop of the gain output/modification. I copy paste this envelop on the pre-Volume envelop of the track, and then slide the all the points left if I need a faster attack time, or make other modifications to separate points as I see fit. I think of it as letting the software have a crack at modifying the volume envelop BEFORE I do my thing.

Once you have printed the output you can unload the VST for the Fx chain. Saves on CPU!

I also think of it as playing the role of a very transparent compressor, that will show me in an envelop all the modification done to a track, so that I can tweak any section I want, how I want.

Again, I don't know how great Waves Vocal Rider is, but perhaps you need not be sad if you can't get it to work in Reaper, because you may find a friend in TBProAudio Gain Rider (note: it is worth reading the short manual for quick instructions).

Cheers
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:46 AM   #15
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I finally got this working. The problem I reported/vented about in my above post was User Error (I had the vocal FX send misrouted).

Here's what I did to get it working:

1) Create a new track. I called it Music Buss.

2) You are going to route all your tracks, except the vocal and vocal sends, to this Music Buss track. For each track sent to the buss, go to I/O section and uncheck "Master Send", then Add New Send and choose the Music Buss. Alternatively, you can do this in the Routing Matrix.
NOTE: If you are using Folders, be sure to uncheck "Master Send" only on the parent folder, not the children tracks within it.

3). Go to the vocal track I/O and change Track Channels from 2 to 4.

4) Go to the Music Buss, Add a New Send and choose the vocal track. Adjust the output for this send to read "Audio: 1/2 => 3/4". See attached image for details.

5) Now the Vocal Rider is receiving music via the sidechain. Make your adjustments accordingly.

6) You can use Latch mode to write the volume changes as automation. In Vocal Rider, choose "Write" on the bottom of the plugin. Right-click on Track Envelopes/Automation section (it's "Trim" by default) and choose "Latch (Record fader movements after first movement)" from the menu. Hit play and watch the envelopes write themselves. Switch Vocal Rider to Read mode and you're done. Switch Latch mode back to Trim mode. Sometimes I'll make adjustments to the automation, especially if there are some vocal breaths that get too loud.

Hope that helps!
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Last edited by citizenkeith; 11-08-2017 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:38 PM   #16
Tim Rideout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lachinhan View Post
This is a video on sidechaining using ReaComp - which works flawlessly. Vocal Rider does not.
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