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View Poll Results: How useful are subprojects to you and would you like these FRs added pretty soon?
Yes, most of the stuff here would be useful to me and I'd like to see a lot of it added pretty soon. 34 69.39%
Yes, some (or all) of the stuff but it can wait for other features first 9 18.37%
No, sub projects are not useful to me at all and shouldn't be worked on as a priority 6 12.24%
None of the above, left a post explaining why.. 0 0%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2016, 10:33 AM   #1
musicbynumbers
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Default FRs for Subprojects. (aka "reaproxys") Please post here if you have anything to add!

As awesome as everything now is with subprojects/reaproxys. I wanted to post below the FRs that I and others have asked for during the last few months that we still feel would be worth putting in reaper at some point.

Readers of this thread.. Please post below with any additional feature requests or comments and I'll try and update this first post to reflect them.

- Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.
it's going to get asked to be done by every musician out there and it would complete the ability to link subprojects to the master project.
It really would be so damn useful/powerful (plus it's keeping me up at night worrying that it's not doable and ruins my utopian reaper dreams!)

Support for using the "save as" function
When inside a subproject it would be great if we can either save as or save a new copy and then the master project be updated to now use the new saved version OR to be asked if we want to update the master project.

- New action to "move tracks to subproject (obey time selection)"
See thw following post for an explanation of the below image.. http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=80


This would complete what we can achieve with subproject creation. Without this, "subproject foldering" will always include everything on the tracks which is cool (as it now doesn't always start at bar 1) but it's still missing a massive trick of being able to contain only parts of those tracks into a subproject without affecting the overall items inside the folder tracks but outside the time selection. I think the way proposed in the post above could work


- Project settings-Option to transfer all master project settings to newly created subprojects
I think this one is probably on it's way for sure as you've mentioned it but thought I'd put it in here so it's complete. Especially as I just tested creating one and got "jarred" when I ended up with not only a time based ruler but also a grid based on frames for my drums

- Tick box in the save window used when creating a subproject for "create sub directory for project".
Would make self containing subprojects for potential drag and dropping into other projects a little bit easier to manage.

- Option for loop points that are set/changed inside of a subproject to also be set/mirrored in the main master project at the same time (as an ongoing process, not just once).
This would make working with synced projects a little bit faster and also stop them going out of sync when the master does it own thing compared to the loop points set in the subproject. A trickier one would be the other way around where by the master loop points define the subproject ones. By this I mean the ability for a subproject that starts halfway into the loop points in the master project to not playback until that same point in the master, even, if internally it would have to "wait" until the play cursor got to that point.

- tick box in normal save as window for "create preview/reaproxy file"
This would be so frigging cool! I would love it if the last version of every project I saved I could create a reaproxy preview file that media explorer could read and I could also drag these projects in faster too. We can do this now with the media explorer option but it's slow because it has to load the project. (but, a right click option when clicking on a project in the media explorer would also be very cool!)

- Let any relevant setting in the render window be applicable to subproject renders. This ones for Ed mostly just the bit depth to be honest but maybe there's other things that would be useful?

- Ability for start (and maybe the end) markers to be able to also not slip contents in master project item but to keep contents locked and instead move the item edges.
Not sure the best way to do it. Probably simply by adjusting the marker name to something like "=START_EDGE" so that the edge is moved and not the contents. Massively useful. (again not my request but I like it).

- Option to define "take areas" using markers within a subproject to auto create takes in the subproject item.
Probably a tricky one but very useful sound design where by we can place variations in different places on the timeline but still mix them all at once with the same tracks. Maybe they would need to be something like "=START_TAKE1" and "=END_TAKE1" etc. (also takes not created this way in the item would have to adjust themselves around this).

- importing/copying subprojects. Can we reaper also just copy over the PROX file instead of opening the project (if the project has not been modified)?
I have a feeling there's a reason for doing this but it would be great if it didn't need to)

Tab menu option to playback master project's video track whilst editing the subproject.
This would override any video tracks in the subproject too. This would be a very useful feature!

- Preference option (or new action) to have the action "move tracks to a new subproject" place the items at bar 1 inside the subproject, not at the original position.
Currently, this action now places the items at the same place they were in the master project. This is useful but could cause issues on long projects. You can use the "remove time" action to get rid of this space but an action would be better.

- Preference option to keep imported subprojects open rather than closing them straight after rendering.
Had that today. Dragged in a massive orchestra project (with "copy imported media items" set to off) and after it had rendered it, reaper closed it automatically which meant I had to double click it again to load it up to actually edit it
Maybe it could even just have a tickbox in the import window for "keep open after rendering"?

- End marker could be used for end of project as well as render (if no items were detected after the end marker that is).
This would be useful for monitoring projects of any kind, not just subprojects as you could define where the reverb ends for that project ,as at the moment, unless you set a loop region, reaper will stop at the last item.

- if you use the subproject "glue" action on midi items, reaper should copy the track FX into the subproject too.
This way we can also "freeze" midi tracks too.
This can be done by the action to move the track into a subproject right now but it would be great if midi items could use this as an item.

- Option for overall rate changes (not stretch markers) on the subproject to be reflected when editing inside the subproject using the play rate slider (in either mode).

By this I mean that variable rate changes done to the subprojects item's stretch markers (by turning off the "preserve rate" option) could be reflected and translated to the playrate control within the subproject. Only temporarily of course and not for rendering use, just for monitoring when inside the subproject how it would sound in the master project.

Not an important one in the least but would be pretty cool!

- Option to see master project markers/regions reflected in subprojects
These markers/regions could be shown as semi transparent or maybe a grey colour to distinguish them and they probably wouldn't be editable, just ghosted on to the subproject for reference.

- Master project tempo map/time signature reflected/copied into subproject as a project setting option
This would mean that tempo changes in the master are also "ghosted" into the subproject at the same time position and can be dynamically updated upon moving the subproject item around.

- project setting to copy markers and regions into newly created subprojects
As a per project option as there are times its not useful too.

- subproject in a dockable window that can sync to the master timeline
Just like the midi editor can. I would use this to have the subprojects docked below the arrange and have both scroll and zoom linked up so editing in context is easier.

- newly created empty subprojects should not render anything open being created
It's not a major issue but if you're creating asay a few minute long empty subproject to place items in, having to render an empty item of that length seems unnecessary.

- setting subproject's render setting to a video format should allow subproject to render as a video file
This seems like a good way to define a subproject as needing to also render the video out too.

- Access to master project's bay from subproject bay's dropdown list.
Have the master project bay also appear in the dropdown list so it can be easily accessed when in the subproject.

Action to update current project's proxy file at any time.
This could also allow the user to correct the times where the project has to re-render but hasn't gave virtual instruments time to load up or simply if you want to create a subproject file to use elsewhere whilst the project is already loaded.
This would be a a MASSIVE help for game audio as I'm working with middleware developers now to add in compatibility with the .PROX format straight into unity/unreal engine so that saving a subproject will automatically update the game audio too via a .PROX file.

warning when using save as window with "Copy audio" ticked and subprojects in project.
a warning when you've accidentally still got "Copy audio" ticked and you do a save as with a project that contains subprojects as reaper will then open each subproject and save them again. Which is useful for some things but takes ages and is mostly not intended behaviour.

Mono subprojects via master mono button instead of the minimum stereo we have now, when the MONO button on the master track of the sub project is checked.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:30 AM   #2
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Moderators.. Could you change the main title so it says "anything" and not "any think" silly auto correct! thanks
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:56 AM   #3
Jason Brian Merrill
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I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
I might be misunderstanding what you mean but we do have the option to have any single subproject you are inside of and editing also make the master project playback.

This works without having to render (in real time) and only renders when you then go back to the master.

What would be the use for having the subprojects "live" if you are in the master project?

I'm interested in understanding the reason. So I can add it to the FR list

Also, I think you can sync all open tabs up anyway if you have the right set of tab menu options on. Might be wrong though..
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:09 AM   #5
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I'd find it useful if the master project's regions and markers would be reflected in its subs.

Probably related to playing back the audio through the master's track mixer, but it would also be very useful to be able to solo the sub (respecting the solo in front setting) while in the sub's tab. At the moment I have to switch to the master and mute the main output.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:58 AM   #6
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I'd find it useful if the master project's regions and markers would be reflected in its subs.
That would be useful for sure. Could be difficult to do continuously since you might change the subproject start point or move it in the master project. As "ghost markers" that are slightly translucent they would be useful as an option. Added it to the list at the top!

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Probably related to playing back the audio through the master's track mixer, but it would also be very useful to be able to solo the sub (respecting the solo in front setting) while in the sub's tab. At the moment I have to switch to the master and mute the main output.
This would hopefully be done at the same time the top FR was done (called "Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.")

If that got put in, it might automatically work better.

For now though I think you could set up a toggle toolbar button to switch on and off the tab menu option (at the top of the screen) as that will stop the master playing when you don't need it.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:50 PM   #7
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- Tempo/Beat Matching
- Shared Media Items (e.g. Global chord progression that is updated across all open projects/subprojects).
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:15 PM   #8
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- Tempo/Beat Matching
- Shared Media Items (e.g. Global chord progression that is updated across all open projects/subprojects).
The tempo one could be good if you mean that tempo grids could be optionally reflected inside the subproject so that the subproject has the same tempo map as the master project (within the area it occurs in within the master project). This probably could be manually done now by copying the tempo envelope though if needed asap. I'll put it in the list.

Global chord progression is something we don't even have in reaper yet so I'll leave that one till it's in the there
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:50 PM   #9
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I currently use a midi item as a chord progression (refernce only). It would be nice to have a tru reference midi files, like how audio can be set offline, edited, and brought back online with changes added.

Ive noticed that a pooled midi item sent to a subprojext can still be edited fron the master project, but it looses its link once the subproject is saved.

I thought that was interesting.
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:47 AM   #10
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Aliased "ghost midi" parts could be useful Indeed.

You might be able to do this kind already though.

There is an action in reaper to turn a midi part into a separate actual midi file on disk.

This file could then be used in both master and sub projects as a reference of the original instead of copying it.

When you then save the midi file, it should update in both.

Long shot, but it might work as a temp solution.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:02 AM   #11
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I've tried that, and it doesn't work. Save Midi to File, and replace midi item with said file, just loads the file as a midi item and that's it.
It's like it becomes a part of the project instead of being directly linked to the midi file, itself.

But please, try it for yourself. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

Maybe that can be appended to the request:
That Midi Items can optionally be linked to a file and updated whenever the file is updated, like Audio Files.

Or even improve the Pooled Midi/Ghost Midi functionality, b/c it may be even helpful when it comes to empty items which have notes.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:15 AM   #12
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It's been a while since I've used midi files but I'll try it next time I get a chance.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:53 AM   #13
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And with tempo sync...
Here's an example of the problem I've encountered.

Let's say I've made two projects (loops even).
One being 90bpm and the other 120bpm.

Then start a new project (85bpm) and drag the two projects in.
They will not sync to the tempo of the new project.

It's awkward, that you'd think that the audio rendered from a reaper project would act better than an acidized wav, but it just wasn't the case in my experiments.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:44 AM   #14
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well, it wasn't really invented for that purpose but more for sound design and film work where by it allows you to create very complex layers of sounds with massive amounts of effects and then turn them into a nice "bundled" audio file that you can open up and create iterations of without worrying about running out of CPU. It's a dream come true in that respect.

It might need some "dev begging" and "programmer pleading" to get it to be more musical (which I'm totally up for, see the first FR)

It will happen but some of what you've asked for might actually be better served by having a better folder system that works more like cubase/nuendo does.

Here's hoping though!
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:55 AM   #15
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Today I found out that FMOD's open wave in external editor (reaper) opens the file in a sub project.

That got me thinking that it should work the other way around.

I tried playing an rpp-prox file in VLC. It's audio! It might be very simple to get files in and out of middleware using subprojects!
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:40 AM   #16
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Yes seems like simple audio with some extra meta data referring to the other projects etc.


I suppose 'regions' to subproject(s) : which I'd like - is easy enough to macro up using select all in region etc. Native action that creates one sub' per region would be nice though.

I keep also thinking that vca's and sub projects could combine to yield super powers but haven't quite figured out why..
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:22 PM   #17
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Today I found out that FMOD's open wave in external editor (reaper) opens the file in a sub project.

That got me thinking that it should work the other way around.

I tried playing an rpp-prox file in VLC. It's audio! It might be very simple to get files in and out of middleware using subprojects!
Indeed, this is pretty cool and I'm going to speak to Taz at fabric audio about also being able to recognise this file at runtime and use it as an audio file.

I already use subprojects in all my sound design projects as containers for the sounds but now instead of having to render the item's out of the master project to overwrite the ones in unity/fabric. I will hopefully soon just be able to save the subproject and go back into unity

The power!

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I suppose 'regions' to subproject(s) : which I'd like - is easy enough to macro up using select all in region etc. Native action that creates one sub' per region would be nice though.
This should be doable with a script though now I'm not sure how much of the subproject stuff is opened to scripters yet but possibly your suggestion and a few of the ones at the top might be doable as scripts.
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:21 PM   #18
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Indeed, this is pretty cool and I'm going to speak to Taz at fabric audio about also being able to recognise this file at runtime and use it as an audio file.
I already talked to him today when we discovered it on Slack.
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:01 PM   #19
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I already talked to him today when we discovered it on Slack.
lol, cool! Was on the phone to him the other day about coming around and adding some more reaper integration and he's all up for it as we have a few games coming in that could really do with it.

Big fan of Fabric and I love this super fast iterative work flow nowadays between all these different coders!

(also, you're going to love the new marker system in fabric.. it enables some very cool stuff!)
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:30 PM   #20
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I never used PiPs, but as my projects have been getting very unruly (200+ tracks/FX) not only is it confusing to work on, but Reaper has been slowing to a halt which makes working on them much more frustrating and much slower. Seems like Subprojects are the perfect solution.

One issue I have is with "Move Tracks to Subproject" (which is mostly what I'll be using). Reaper gives the Subproject a somewhat random name, and immediately starts rendering with start/end points not where I want. Then if I save the Subproject with a better name, it's no longer referenced in the main project, which mostly defeats the point of the action in the first place.

Any tips?

Also, I wonder about having Subprojects mixed to 64-bit? I know the difference is minor, and maybe even pointless, but if I create Subproject stems, Reaper will be mixing 32-bit files, rather than staying 64-bit until the end. Am I missing something?
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:21 AM   #21
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Hi pitchslap I replied in the other thread with some info but some other things that might help with tracks is to manually crest a Pip and copy and paste into it for now.

I've not used the move tracks into subproject much due to what you mention but I'll try it again today.

As for naming, you can change how the name appears in the master I think in item properties without an issue but you might be stuck with the actual file name. I think if you folder the tracks first then reaper uses the folder name. Not ideal but something for a needed option menu!

For me, I'd like what I've mentioned in the first post which is for a bit more "logic" in that action that will better include the time selection and maybe even only move the stuff within the time selection to a new subproject but leave the tracks and items behind still if there are items outside of the time selection.

This way, you say" section off" your verse drums and then your chorus drums so you can treat them with different mixes etc.

Another big addition would be that subprojects should be able to route their master output back into the master project and "come out" of the actual item in the master project so the mix doesn't change and is in context.

As for sends, remember you can have the subproject route out upto 32 (or 64 maybe) channels to a single wav so you can do some clever routing stuff still inside the subproject.

As for bit depth. I've not tried it yet but go to render settings inside of the subproject and see if the bit depth option there allows for 64 bit as the online/offline option works there too so maybe..

I personally wouldn't bother going past 32-bit and even then for me, the benefits are more about not being able to clip the output as you can go past unity/0dB in a float file. Some people have asked for an option to have subprojects render at 24bit instead to save disk space and I might even change it there too if we had the option.

Anyway, I'll mess about with move tracks to subproject later and see if there's a way around your issue.
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:22 AM   #22
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Another big thing for me is that when tracks are moved to a subproject they really should copy markers and regions from the master track. Those are often used for navigation, arrangement etc., and it's really easy to lose perspective when they're gone all of a sudden...
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:46 AM   #23
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Dock subproject in docker... Just think about it one second!
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:16 AM   #24
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Another big thing for me is that when tracks are moved to a subproject they really should copy markers and regions from the master track. Those are often used for navigation, arrangement etc., and it's really easy to lose perspective when they're gone all of a sudden...
As an option that would be great. I'll add it to the list.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:22 AM   #25
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Dock subproject in docker... Just think about it one second!
Added it for me I'd love it too if the subprojects could be docked and synced up below the arrange like you can the midi editor.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:34 AM   #26
Ozman
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Idunno, docking a subproject in the docker might be a bit much though.

However, last night I came across an issue which further gives good use of "global" items and tracks: Routing.

I had two parts in separate subprojects playing at the same time and realized that I wanted to use some side chaining. Particularly, sending audio from a percussion track to the bass track of a separate subproject.

This could be done if certain aspects of a track can be mirrored (e.g. items, fx chain, etc) and certain parts can be left out (e.g. routing). And changes in the things that are shared/linked/mirrored are updated across all sibling "mirrors". These changes can be shown upon re-entry of the subproject and updated in parent track upon save, like usual.

This would allow for better orchestration, in which subprojects can be useful for actual composition. As well as give mirrored/pooled/linked tracks/items options to be unique or the same as their siblings.

I'm thinking... the way to possibly facilitate such tracks and items being available across projects require mainly 2 features to work:
1) Saving tracks in "Template Track" format within the project directory, or saving audio and midi files (if using mirrored/linked items instead of tracks).
2) Real, live representation of audio and midi files on disk, instead of just loaded and stored to project (like in midi files case). Audio files, however, seem to be true representations of files on disk.


*Benefits:
- Cross project routing.
- Cross project continuity of tracks and/or items.



This is monumental for me, being that I do a lot of freezing and compartmentalizing b/c I don't have a very fast machine.

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Old 01-12-2016, 11:17 PM   #27
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I guess I'll find out soon enough when I test, but has anyone used subprojects with video?

I'm doing a show soon with a large visual component (in a movie theater) and while the plan is to use Resolume it would be great to mock things up in Reaper first. I'd basically want to have a master project, then subprojects for each song consisting of the visuals for each track. I'll report back unless I hear it's not supported.


Also while docking subprojects would be nice, I think it would be awesome if subproject could spawn a new instance of Reaper. That way we could have them open on a second monitor, or split the screen...

*EDIT*

Nope. Video doesn't seem to work. I can see it progress in the video monitor when it's rendering, but subproject renders appear to be audio only. Maybe an easy solution/useful request to fix this would be to have subprojects use the settings from the render dialog. That way if I change the render format to video, the video gets included...
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:46 AM   #28
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I like that as an option pitchslap

Using the render settings set to video would be a good way to say "make this a video subproject"

I'll add it to the list
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:42 AM   #29
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Where are the render options for sub-projects?
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:52 AM   #30
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I'd also appreciate if the edit cursor could be synced between master and subs.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:56 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman View Post
Where are the render options for sub-projects?
They render when you save a change. As far as options go, they seem to be fixed at 32bit wave.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:00 AM   #32
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Then adding some render options can be helpful.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:54 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman View Post
Where are the render options for sub-projects?
Currently there aren't many you can make use of but if you open the render window in the subproject itself you can change it from offline render to realtime and then save the settings at the bottom.

I think there's one or two other things but forget what they are right now
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
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I'd also appreciate if the edit cursor could be synced between master and subs.
I think the edit cursor is but only upon first open of the subproject, then after that (unless you close the project) I think you only get play cursor sync (with the correct tab menu options enabled)
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
I think the edit cursor is but only upon first open of the subproject, then after that (unless you close the project) I think you only get play cursor sync (with the correct tab menu options enabled)
Doesn't seem like it sets the edit cursor at all for me. IMO the whole syncing between master prj and subs could be substantially improved. So that they'd always sync no matter what, for playback, markers, edit cursor, etc. Think this would be my number one wish for the moment
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:08 AM   #36
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Actually thinking about syncing the master and the subs I suppose that the way I use subs would make having markers, regions, cursor positions, playback sync (with or without loop) reflected between master and subs would be desirable, I can also see uses for subs where it would be useless and a pain in the @ss... So I guess it would all have to be individually configurable, and there would really be no right nor wrong way it could be implemented...
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:07 AM   #37
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all good. Definitely needs to be an option but it would be very useful to have "ghost" versions of the markers etc in the subproject.

For now I think it's possible to do a copy paste of the markers using sws actions.
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Old 01-15-2016, 01:55 PM   #38
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A feature request.

As ReaMote supposedly is at the end of it's live, itz might be a good idea to allow for Subprojects to be rendered on another PC accessible voa TCP/IP Network.

This seems more versatile than ReaMote and supposedly will have no problems with e.g. Sample-player VSTis, that I was told would not run with ReaMote.

-Michael

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Old 01-15-2016, 07:00 PM   #39
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Love these suggestions. Sub projects has the potential to be a game changer for my sound design team, just waiting for a few important updates and tweaks to the system before switching over from the daw that shall not be named.

This community is fantastic.
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Old 01-19-2016, 08:45 AM   #40
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Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
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