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View Poll Results: How useful are subprojects to you and would you like these FRs added pretty soon?
Yes, most of the stuff here would be useful to me and I'd like to see a lot of it added pretty soon. 33 68.75%
Yes, some (or all) of the stuff but it can wait for other features first 9 18.75%
No, sub projects are not useful to me at all and shouldn't be worked on as a priority 6 12.50%
None of the above, left a post explaining why.. 0 0%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2016, 11:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
As an option it might be good to have the master project bay also in the dropdown list so it can be easily accessed.

Will put it in the list!
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:57 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
A feature request.

As ReaMote supposedly is at the end of it's live, itz might be a good idea to allow for Subprojects to be rendered on another PC accessible voa TCP/IP Network.

This seems more versatile than ReaMote and supposedly will have no problems with e.g. Sample-player VSTis, that I was told would not run with ReaMote.

-Michael
I'm not sure how this would work since subprojects are by design meant to be rendered once you are back in the master project.

What you're suggesting could be a good extension to it by allowing subprojects to open and be live on a 2nd computer I guess?
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Old 01-19-2016, 12:04 PM   #43
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When cleaning a project directory <that is not the default directory>, it would be nice to consider the other projects within that same folder.

I've had to relocate samples that I've used b/c I made the mistake of cleaning a project directory which had a subproject which used samples which were in the directory.

===============================

Also, it would be cool to see the midi items from other/open projects too, while in the midi editor (Optional?). But that may be far fetched.
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Old 01-19-2016, 12:05 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post

- Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.
Ok, this is probably a pain in the ass to code.. but it's going to get asked to be done by every musician out there and it would complete the ability to link subprojects to the master project.
It really would be so damn useful/powerful (plus it's keeping me up at night worrying that it's not doable and ruins my utopian reaper dreams!)
This would be a big thing for me.
..and the ability to us master-project fx for sub-projects as well.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:49 PM   #45
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I work in video game sound design and have been using sub projects since Christmas. This feature has improved my workflow considerably. Iterating sounds has become an organic and enjoyable process, whereas in other DAW's it is extremely tedious and can ruin creative flow.(Print,Fade,Rename,Export for 6 gun shot sounds over 5 revisions makes my wrist hurt just thinking about it)

Most of my wishes for sub projects have already been discussed in this thread, however there are a few small but big things I would like to see added in future updates:

1) An option to render the ReaProxy file on command. Right now it happens either on save, or deferred on switching to the master project. Additionally, sometimes when opening a project it needs to re-render the proxy. If initiated on command it would prevent hiccups in work flow when moving quickly between sessions and project tabs.

2) Sometimes you don't need multiple tabbed sub projects if you are working on dialog for one character and just want to render to pre-edited and pre-named items from a proxy file. The ability to load a session in to itself as a proxy would make this system more flexible for both single track to large multi track sessions.

3) This was mentioned before but I want to stress it again. The ability to create multiple sets of start and end markers in to one sub project would revolutionize Reaper for game audio even further. Again for dialog as an example, if you have 250 lines of dialog and only want to work on the first 50 lines and the last 50 lines, adding in two sets of start and end markers would allow the reproxy to skip rendering the middle 150 lines of dialog (as render times can become quite long when working with long timelines sessions). A big pretty please for this one.

4) For years game audio designers have been looking to merge the DAW and audio game engine integration in a more seamless way. Up until sub projects came along there wasn't much hope. To take sub projects one step further and really push Reaper forward as a top contender for game sound design, something as simple as merging the ReaProxy render with the standard Render function would do that. Example: You create a sub project and make a series of 10 creature barks. Render the ReaProxy, cut and re-name your files once, only once (still can't get over it) and render using the 'render selected item's' option. Now, if there was an option to trigger an action which would simultaneously render the ReaProxy (as per my first suggestion) and then render the selected items immediately using my last render settings without opening the render screen this would come very close to real time creation and iteration. Now when I check my sounds in game and they need more compression, back to reaper, make changes, hit one key, done - back to the engine, needs more top end, repeat the above.


Thanks for reading.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:59 AM   #46
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erichiop, good points there!

I too feel the same about how much this feature has changed my work process so am big into getting it added to asap.

1. added it to the list!

2. Not quite sure what you mean here? all subprojects are just normal projects and can be loaded, edited and saved as normal which then updates any other projects that contain them (even if not loaded at the time). If I've got that wrong, feel free to add more detail here.

3. I've already added this request to the top but i think my request was more about defining parts of the subproject as different takes/options in the main project. (a quick tip is that using the "open copy of item in editor" menu option will create a duplicate of the subproject which is hand y to try out different options)
For now, it might be worth using different subprojects for the different scenes (if you don't already) as I've got a feature film coming up next month which will need a lot of this stuff so I intend to put each scene's dialogue into different subprojects but on the same master project's track as it makes moving it all around easy and loading just that one scene's dialogue faster. I still would like this feature though!

4. That would be useful. For now it's not too bad as you can reaper update the subproject on save/change tab and then when you're in the master project you can use the action "render project using most recent settings" which will then render them quickly (if done once before hand) This is what I'm doing now

As a bonus to this, me and a few others are working with Taz from Fabric audio to make ".PROX" files work in fabric (under unity) in this very manner so not only can you open the reaper subproject from within unity but you can also pop into reaper, change the subproject and then go back into unity to have the sound instantly updated. It's going to be amazing!
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:56 AM   #47
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Request - Option to play Video from parent when playing subproject.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:20 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
erichiop, good points there!

I too feel the same about how much this feature has changed my work process so am big into getting it added to asap.

1. added it to the list!

2. Not quite sure what you mean here? all subprojects are just normal projects and can be loaded, edited and saved as normal which then updates any other projects that contain them (even if not loaded at the time). If I've got that wrong, feel free to add more detail here.

3. I've already added this request to the top but i think my request was more about defining parts of the subproject as different takes/options in the main project. (a quick tip is that using the "open copy of item in editor" menu option will create a duplicate of the subproject which is hand y to try out different options)
For now, it might be worth using different subprojects for the different scenes (if you don't already) as I've got a feature film coming up next month which will need a lot of this stuff so I intend to put each scene's dialogue into different subprojects but on the same master project's track as it makes moving it all around easy and loading just that one scene's dialogue faster. I still would like this feature though!

4. That would be useful. For now it's not too bad as you can reaper update the subproject on save/change tab and then when you're in the master project you can use the action "render project using most recent settings" which will then render them quickly (if done once before hand) This is what I'm doing now

As a bonus to this, me and a few others are working with Taz from Fabric audio to make ".PROX" files work in fabric (under unity) in this very manner so not only can you open the reaper subproject from within unity but you can also pop into reaper, change the subproject and then go back into unity to have the sound instantly updated. It's going to be amazing!
Just wanted to clarify a few of my points

1. Thank you for adding it!

2.No you don't have this wrong, it is very close to functioning how I described in my original post. But for example, I created a script to replace a blank items' source with the current sessions' .RRP file, so I could essentially have a proxy of my current project within itself. It is ALMOST working except I get a nasty bug when I close and open the project again (Reaper tried to re-render the reaproxy but hangs until I cancel it).

3. I see what you're saying about multiple Sub Projects for different scenes and I definitely have done that. However for game audio sometimes you have one character who has 250 lines and want to keep the same processing across all (if doing things like parallel processing for effects) but you do not want to render all of the lines each time you export a revision.

4.Did not know about the render project using most recent settings function, thank you!! But for V2.0 it would be amazing to combine my first request with this function, it would take it rom good to great.

Thanks again for this thread, looking forward to the future of this great feature.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:28 PM   #49
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Request - Option to play Video from parent when playing subproject.
Added already a much needed option though!
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
Just wanted to clarify a few of my points

1. Thank you for adding it!
benefits us all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
2.No you don't have this wrong, it is very close to functioning how I described in my original post. But for example, I created a script to replace a blank items' source with the current sessions' .RRP file, so I could essentially have a proxy of my current project within itself. It is ALMOST working except I get a nasty bug when I close and open the project again (Reaper tried to re-render the reaproxy but hangs until I cancel it).
Maybe one thing we can ask devs for then is additions to or an API for subprojects

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Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
3. I see what you're saying about multiple Sub Projects for different scenes and I definitely have done that. However for game audio sometimes you have one character who has 250 lines and want to keep the same processing across all (if doing things like parallel processing for effects) but you do not want to render all of the lines each time you export a revision.
That's a good point which I too would get into with certain game elements too. I have a feeling that this might be a hard one to have (same as using them for takes), I hope not though!
What I was intending to do was to do my edits inside the subprojects (all the messy stuff) and then using the fact that subprojects can output multichannels at once to then mix each actor at on separate tracks even though they come out of the same item.. Same for output stems from the music into the master project too. Love this feature!


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Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
4.Did not know about the render project using most recent settings function, thank you!! But for V2.0 it would be amazing to combine my first request with this function, it would take it rom good to great.
indeed, all useful additions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
Thanks again for this thread, looking forward to the future of this great feature.
no probs. What we really need are tons of votes at the top to show the devs how big this feature is
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
benefits us all!

What I was intending to do was to do my edits inside the subprojects (all the messy stuff) and then using the fact that subprojects can output multichannels at once to then mix each actor at on separate tracks even though they come out of the same item.. Same for output stems from the music into the master project too. Love this feature!
I didn't know about the multi channel sub project output. How do you use this feature?
This might solve my issue! Thanks again.
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Old 01-23-2016, 05:48 AM   #52
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I didn't know about the multi channel sub project output. How do you use this feature?
This might solve my issue! Thanks again.
In the subproject. Set the master output's amount of channels to say 8 (or however many you need) in the IO button. Then route the tracks/VO you need to get at in the master project to these different channels via their IO button as well.

Then in the master project you will see that the subproject item is now multichannel and you can then either use sends on that track to route say 3 and 4 of that item to a new track in the master or you can duplicate that subproject item to other tracks in the master and simply right click the item and chose to only play say tracks 3 and 4. As usual, any changes will still be reflected upon changing the subproject internally.

I've already used this to put all my drums in a subproject so I can do some messy editing to them and also put some heavy on the CPU processing on each track and then still have the mix done in the master project by duplicating the same item to new tracks and then changing which channel it comes out on.

one BIG TIP though. In the subproject you will find that you will no longer be able to hear a track if it's routed to say 3 and 4 because it's no longer coming out of 1 and 2 where you're speakers probably are BUT.. You can do a sneaky thing here and along with routing that track to 3 and 4, also untick the tickbox to "route to master" (in the top left of the IO window) and then create a direct out on that track to outs 1 and 2 (post fader.) This will allow you to hear all the subproject tracks but because they are not routed through the master, they don't get rendered out!

That approach takes a bit more time but is so useful for quite a few things like this

That's what I love about reaper. It's so flexible that it allows you to bend it to your will! lol
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:07 AM   #53
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In the subproject. Set the master output's amount of channels to say 8 (or however many you need) in the IO button. Then route the tracks/VO you need to get at in the master project to these different channels via their IO button as well.
Thanks for the run down on this. Definitely going to give it a try this coming week!
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:39 PM   #54
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I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
Yep !!!

I think it's rather obvious that pre-rendering (which of course does make sense in many instances) should be just opional. With this using subprojects simply as a means for structuring and sharing parts of a project with other main projects. (In fact I did not expect that subprojects would be pre-rendered at all)

On top of this it would be perfectly sensible to allow for sub-projects to be rendered in realtime remotely on another PC using a similar protocol as Reamote, but allowing the configuration of VSTs (also) on the slave, as with many VSTs, remote-configuration of VSTs with ReaMote is not possible .

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Old 01-29-2016, 12:16 AM   #55
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1) An option to render the ReaProxy file on command. Right now it happens either on save, or deferred on switching to the master project. Additionally, sometimes when opening a project it needs to re-render the proxy. If initiated on command it would prevent hiccups in work flow when moving quickly between sessions and project tabs.
This would be big for me too. At this point using subprojects has probably wasted as much time re-rendering when either not needed, or not wanted as it's saved.

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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
In the subproject. Set the master output's amount of channels to say 8 (or however many you need) in the IO button. Then route the tracks/VO you need to get at in the master project to these different channels via their IO button as well.

Then in the master project you will see that the subproject item is now multichannel and you can then either use sends on that track to route say 3 and 4 of that item to a new track in the master or you can duplicate that subproject item to other tracks in the master and simply right click the item and chose to only play say tracks 3 and 4. As usual, any changes will still be reflected upon changing the subproject internally.
REALLY, REALLY nice tip! I'll definitely have to play around with that. I'd say that should be an example in the manual since it's very powerful, yet likely to be overlooked (I would've never thought of it)
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:56 PM   #56
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Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
I think I've put that request in but will check.

I was thinking that it should be that subprojects can access the project bay for the master (from the dropdown) but it definitely shouldn't use the same bay overall as the subproject can be a full separate project and also you might not want it too.

Having easy access to the master's project bay is probably the best way overall?
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:53 AM   #57
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I have a huge old project crashing on load and wanted to break it into subprojects to troubleshoot and continue mixing, and I was quite happy that if I open a project in offline mode and move tracks to a subproject, when the subproject is reopened it restores the plugins properly (I was afraid they'd all be saved offline like offline mode used to work)...


Also it seems to me there is a pretty good consensus around having more control over when subprojects render, and not having them immediately render when moving tracks to a subproject. I'd love to see that first.

Another specific request is for the "filename format for recorded files" setting to be ignored when moving tracks to a subproject. Ideally I think it should default to $project$track only.

But as we know, there's no guarantee of any subproject tweaks in the near future so as a workaround before moving tracks to a subproject and having the entire timeline rendered, I've started cropping my main project to a time selection (making it start at 0:00), before moving the tracks. Then recreating the leading space afterwards. It doesn't help if there are regions and items you want to retain there, but it's always possible to open a previous project revision.
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:50 AM   #58
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It would be a nice implementation for Subproject to save as a mono channel audio file, when the MONO button on the master track is checked, so we can use Subproject for vocal/guitar recording/comping or sample processing (kick/snare). It would not only save some disk space, but compatible with some mono only scripts as well.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:26 AM   #59
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It would be a nice implementation for Subproject to save as a mono channel audio file, when the MONO button on the master track is checked, so we can use Subproject for vocal/guitar recording/comping or sample processing (kick/snare). It would not only save some disk space, but compatible with some mono only scripts as well.
Good idea!

I have a feeling that this might take a while to get in since reaper will already change a subprojects amount of channels to the same as the master but reaper has never really yet handled anything mono. Will see if that changes at some point and then ask for this. Have to wait for Notation to be done first I think
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:17 AM   #60
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Hi guys, is this thread still live?

I'm using subprojects a lot in post production on game cutscenes at the moment, and I've got a couple of requests.

1. Pass through video to subproject video window from master project

- If you enter a subproject, the audio will sync with the main project, but the video will not play in the video window. This is a problem, as you lose visual feedback once you enter a subproject to edit it

2. Save new version of an imported subproject

- If I grab a subproject and import it into a project, then edit it, I can't save as it would break the project it was originally used in. So you have to save it as another version, and then reimport it again.
Probably a way to fix this would be to have the option to import a copy of a subproject instead, which can then be edited and saved without breaking the cutscene it has been pillaged from.

Hope that makes sense, and thanks devs for an amazingly useful feature
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:40 AM   #61
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Hi Travesty,

The thread is still relevant yes and it needs people to ask the devs for a "2nd pass" on the subprojects feature at some point (using this thread as a reference).

having said that..here are some rough answers for you (On the move at the moment so they are a bit messy)

The first issue you mention with video is up there on the list but what I do for now is when creating the subproject I will also copy a time selection area of the video and paste this into the top track in the subproject as well. It's not ideal but since subprojects don't render video then it works quite well. If you then move positions in the video you can just copy and paste again. Also, I've found this useful for animations as you can have a close up animation vid in the subproject and have the in game version in the master file.

The second thing you mentioned regarding copying is also something I would like sorted. but for now, you can set a option up in reaper (or a toolbar button) to simply enable the preference to make reaper import a copy and not a reference. This will then make the imported version a copy automatically. You can also make a duplicate simply by using the "open a copy of item in external editor" which is a right click on the item option. This will make a 2nd take on top of that item with a newly copied reference of the subproject which is separate from the original. Both of these also copy all audio files into the project too.

Hope that helps.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:54 AM   #62
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Hi man, yeah I tried the workaround of copying the video in, but I'm using so many subprojects that it would slow me down too much. This would be a big help if it could be sorted.

As for the copying thing, that could work for the time being, cheers
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:24 AM   #63
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+1 on video issues. Subprojects are killer for post but we need background video at least.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:55 AM   #64
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I've made a macro which copies a section of the video into the subproject, provided the video is on track 1.

I'd still like this to be fixed natively, but this works. I'll upload it on Monday if anyone is interested
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Old 07-29-2016, 01:44 PM   #65
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+1 on video issues. Subprojects are killer for post but we need background video at least.
well, subprojects would suck if they had to render VIDEO on save.


that being said, what if subprojects could run in the background instead of being rendered?
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Old 07-29-2016, 02:02 PM   #66
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allowing video from background tabs would help.

also an option allowing ONLY video (no audio) from background tabs would be useful.
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Old 10-02-2016, 07:42 AM   #67
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I have a FR involving subprojects:

I do a lot of work layering samples and creating many variations of them.
It would save me so much time if there was a way of automatically saving each layered sample/sound to a subproject.
At the moment I have to select all of the layered items over multiple tracks, copy them, open a new project, paste them, and manually save as a new project.

It would be amazing to use something like the region render matrix but 'render' to an .RPP file instead of an audio file.

Or perhaps it could be done with a script like 'copy selected items to new project tab'. This might be ok when using item/take FX (which I usually do) but might be messy with track FX. I posted about this in the JSFX forum a while back.
Any thoughts or workrounds greatly appreciated, it's been driving me a little crazy trying to work out a way to do this!
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:47 AM   #68
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Hi Tone,

I think the best thing to do is just try them out.

I think I've talked about uses somewhere in this thread but there's other ones that are either under the title "subproject" or "PIPs" which is what they use to be called.

The basics of it is that they are fully fledged reaper projects that when pulled into a project (which then becomes the master project), the projects render a bounced down wav file as there master output so that the whole subproject is now shown in the master as just a wav file item like any other item.

Double clicking on it though makes it open up as editable and if you setup the right tab options at the top of the screen, you can even sync this subproject to the master's playback and loop too which means that subprojects can be used to say store your complex drum programming so that they don't take up CPU or a whole orchestral song for a film alongside other things like dialogue and sfx.

The uses expand from there into things like mastering etc but I'm writing this on my phone so can't get to links easily. I recommend searching titles of threads for either "subprojects" or "PIPs" and seeing what comes up.

The manual also has a good section on it
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
What is the difference between subproject and hiddden rendered folder?
I don't know what hidden rendered folders are?

I think I do actually and you mean if you rendered a folder track then hide it.

It's like that but with no mess and the option to use these subprojects in other projects too and you can also audition them straight away which is nice.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:52 AM   #70
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What about possibility to change subprojects format/samplerate?
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:16 AM   #71
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Tone.

Subprojects can only send audio out of them currently.

You can have the master track in the project set to a higher amount of channels than 2 so that these extra channels are either for surround channels or things like sends used for triggering ducking in the master etc.

Another use is for things like doing all your drum editing in the subproject but sending out each drum channel back to the master separately for mixing in the master instead.

Be nice if midi sends could be sent too but don't think that will happen.

Not much use for it either maybe..
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:17 AM   #72
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What about possibility to change subprojects format/samplerate?
I think this is already possible as the master project will just do its normal sample rate conversion on the subproject item.

Not sure what happens when playing back a subproject synced to the master though if they have different rates.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:21 AM   #73
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Quote:
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What I like currently is this method, just use folders with many more subfolders, render, hide, the music sounds same, but the arrange looking clean. Keeping on arrange only what you are working on, always clean! No matter how complex the project.
Yes.. I do this lot

You can even choose a time selection area in a folder track and there's a track option to create a subproject which will move all the child tracks and the folder into a subproject, render it and give you a new track that sounds the same but is now compacted.

What I would love is for subprojects to actually playback through the track they are on (when editing a subproject whilst synced to the master) rather than just sum to the sound card outputs.

As it is now I tend to leave fx off and fader to unity (0dB) and mix within the subproject instead so it always sounds the same
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:34 AM   #74
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I think this is already possible as the master project will just do its normal sample rate conversion on the subproject item.
Nice. But what about bit depth and audio format?
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Old 04-05-2017, 06:51 AM   #75
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It would be nice to...

1) share specific items that are updated across projects in real time, if they are all opened. (e.g. Global midi items)

2) be able to render multiple parts/regions of a subproject, like use it as a loop/asset resource instead of a single mixdown (btwn start and end markers). Maybe there can be a Menu item that can allow regions to be selected, or use the default start to end markers.
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:13 AM   #76
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I think your first suggestion would be possible if "MIDI subprojects" were implemented (subprojects that render midi output)

the second suggestion is actually a great FR:

perhaps have a start markers "=START:[subproject name]" to generate multiple subprojects from one RPP
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:21 PM   #77
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There schould not be dedicated Midi subprojectects, but the "kind" of a subproject should be switchable between "pre-rendered", "live" (not pre-rendered, but just a way of handling the tracks), and (finally) "remote" (same as "live", but the subproject is rendered on another box controlled via a protocol similar as ReaMote) .

So live Midi work would be included automatically.

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Old 05-02-2017, 06:03 AM   #78
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I was disappointed to find midi subprojects aren't a thing. They would be really useful
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:05 AM   #79
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+1

There are several Feature Request regarding subprojects running.
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:40 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver View Post
I think your first suggestion would be possible if "MIDI subprojects" were implemented (subprojects that render midi output)

the second suggestion is actually a great FR:

perhaps have a start markers "=START:[subproject name]" to generate multiple subprojects from one RPP
That would be cool (multiple starts and subprojects)...
The only thing that came to my mind regarding scalability though is an entirely different FR all together, and that is nested Regions. I really like that script someone wrote which allows for empty items to control region placements. However, it would be nice to have nested regions, like the region area can vertically expand when 2 regions occupy the same space. This would allow one to make subprojects (as well as regular arrangements) hierarchical or even just have referrable regions that can occupy the same arrangement space whenever desired. This would be good for Asset creation, sample layering, musical phrases, etc.).

Is that too much?
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