MIDI editor: Cannot grab note start to change length

[noise_construct]

Make a clip with full length notes, try to change length from beginning of note.

[andysarchus]

Midi Editor options > Allow midi note edit to extend the media item.

Hope that's what you're after.

Edit: Just noticed that the media item in your video starts at bar 1 of your project. I don't think you can extend the notes beyond the start of the project.

[noise_construct]

Originally Posted by andysarchus

Midi Editor options > Allow midi note edit to extend the media item.

Hope that's what you're after.

Edit: Just noticed that the media item in your video starts at bar 1 of your project. I don't think you can extend the notes beyond the start of the project.

I'm sorry but I'm not looking for any setting or extending notes beyond the clip, as you can see the handle to move the note start doesn't appear.

[andysarchus]

Sorry if I misunderstood. As you can see below, I have no problems grabbing the start of a note to re-size when the note starts at the beginning of the item.

[noise_construct]

Your note isn't full length, that's why.

Edit: notes spanning the whole clip can be actually different lengths if they are created via slicing the clip in the arrangement view.

[cfillion]

I can resize "full length" notes without issues here too:



EDIT: Is "Start in source" set to 0:00.000 in the item properties?

[andysarchus]

Originally Posted by noise_construct

Your note isn't full length, that's why.

It is! Honest, Guv.

[noise_construct]

Look at this:



Top note was drawn in the editor starting from 0.
Middle note was drawn elsewhere, snapped to 0 and extended to clip end.
Bottom note was sliced along with the clip from a longer.

All start at 1 according to the timeline, clip is at 0 according to the properties, and MIDI note properties show the notes starting at wherever, all at different times.

[cfillion]

Like this?



Notes cannot be resized if they span outside of the item. Resize your item, then you should be able to resize the notes.

[noise_construct]

No. Record or draw a clip and a longer note, then slice the MIDI item from both ends. You get an item with a note extending from exactly clip start to end (or that's what is supposed to happen).

Now draw a note in the same item from start to end, check the start positions and note lengths. These should be identical, but the note made via item slice is actually longer.

[noise_construct]

I can't seem to be able to edit the thread title, but this thread is now about:

MIDI item slice not accurate (critical)

[noise_construct]

This is real mess.

1) it's display bug. REAPER prints the MIDI note like it would start at clip border, when the note actually extends outside the MIDI clip, and even prints the velocity bar at the clip border. This is why I couldn't adjust the note length, the note simply doesn't start at the point even if it looks like it.

2) Slicing a MIDI item creates new, unique MIDI notes, ie, it's a destructive process... but only in the end of notes. Slicing treats note start time non-destructively. This is not how slice works with audio, and even if slicing MIDI wouldn't be exactly the same as with audio, I'd seriously expect same results when slicing on the left side and right side of a MIDI item. Either affect only the item, or item and notes.

[snooks]

Originally Posted by noise_construct

Look at this:



Top note was drawn in the editor starting from 0.
Middle note was drawn elsewhere, snapped to 0 and extended to clip end.
Bottom note was sliced along with the clip from a longer.

All start at 1 according to the timeline, clip is at 0 according to the properties, and MIDI note properties show the notes starting at wherever, all at different times.

You have snap off in your gif. It therefore looks like you are just accidentally placing the notes in different positions from here. I certainly can't reproduce anyway.

[noise_construct]

Snap is actually on.

My last post should clarify this issue better than the earlier posts when I didn't really understand what was going on.

[snooks]

It's hard to tell with custom icons, with the standard theme the magnet lights up when snap is on. For your previous description to work with snap on, snap has to be broken - and it isn't. The only logical explanation is that snap was off. But we've moved on to a new description of the issue so...

Re the new description, you should turn off the preference MIDI->MIDI settings->Allow trim of MIDI items... so that you can extend both sides of the split. I agree that this should be default or that the trim should affect either side of a split if on.

A hint that a note (or item) extends beyond the start would be helpful too. I wouldn't call either bugs though.

[noise_construct]

Originally Posted by snooks

A hint that a note (or item) extends beyond the start would be helpful too. I wouldn't call either bugs though.

Nevertheless, bugs they indeed are. No hint needed if you just don't draw a note start where it isn't.

[snooks]

But that's not happening, that behaviour from your original description was because you had snap off and are inadvertently moving the note position, thinking you had snap on. You do know that snap can be off in the MIDI Editor and on in the Arrange, right?

Also with the preference I pointed out you have the consistent behaviour you desire in point 2 and the current visual queue of notes extending beyond the border is that there is no handle when going to adjust length. I agree this could be optimised, but imperfection does not a bug make.

[gofer]

It's due to Reaper's behavior when trimming MIDI and closely related to it's MIDI split behavior. Both are issues which annoy me a lot.

When you are trimming the item start edge towards the right then Reaper will play back as if an affected note starts at the spot where you are trimming to, likewise if you are trimming the end edge towards the left then any affected note will play back as if it ends at the new item edge. The piano roll displays likewise, but doesn't (yet) allow editing of these shortened notes, probably because the actual note start (or end) position is still refering the true positions (they have to, otherwise you couldn't trim back out).
They are attacking this in the latest preview version, as in you can now grab the "virtual" edge of the trimmed notes and edit them (within current item boundaries), but I am afraid they are painting themselves into a corner there.

What I would expect to happen is as follows:
If you trim an item's start so it starts within the duration of a note, then this note should either
a) not be played by this item anymore and therefore not be displayed at all (although it should still exist in case you are trimming back).
b) current behavior but editable in piano roll (as in the new pre version)

If you trim an item's end so it ends within the duration of a note, then this note should either
a) ring out for it's natural length, be editable (and probably displayed in it's entirety) in piano roll
b) current behavior but editable in piano roll (as in the new pre version)

All of these options should be available and queried any time Reaper detects a trim that ends up within an existing note's "livetime"

I believe Reaper's behavior is due to the attempt of making MIDI trim and split as similar as possible to audio, but this attempt is bound to fail and so it does.

Alas Schwa already hinted at "ring out" will probably never come, which is very depressing.

[noise_construct]

This behaviour (while still exists) has been improved with fixing the incorrect drawing of MIDI note borders.

The connection with what REAPER considers the "original recording" and how it plays back the MIDI item is sometimes confusing, and I'm not sure if it's worth keeping as it is.

I'd prefer an option Note-on sent only at the MIDI Note-on event, and have an option move note starts and ends with MIDI items, like you can choose for split behaviour.

[boboyo]

I think I figured this one out...I think we had the same problem, and I think it's the Grid on MIDI editing--double click your MIDI item in the track window, then on that MIDI item edit window, make sure you adjust the "Grid" to the proper note value, so that you have enough grid lines. By default, it seemed to be on some odd thing, where if I grabbed either the left or right side of an individual MIDI note, it would stretch in the opposite direction, and made zero sense... Even though the "Grid" on the main tracking window was set correctly, the MIDI edit window (not sure if that's the proper name of the window) but the MIDI edit window has its own, separate Grid, and once I changed that to 1/16 (or 1/16 "triplet") then I was able to easily grab either side of a MIDI note and stretch and snap it to the grid.

just to add more key words here, reaper MIDI note editing, reaper midi note stretch, reaper midi note adjust, reaper midi note trim

[deebeedee]

I was having trouble with this today: I found with a fresh midi recording I could edit lengths etc afterwards no problem, but if I copied notes from one track and put them on another track, it just wouldn't go into the mode to drag notes, I could only add new ones.

After much messing about, I found if I highlighted the new midi item, and did 'glue selected item' I could edit lengths, positions etc as normal