Old 02-29-2016, 02:54 PM   #1
bblue
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Default File Size limit in Consolidate & Glue?

Strange problem is cropping up for the first time. Using Reaper v5.20pre14/x64 but earlier versions (in the 5.20pre series) do the same thing.

Any attempt to glue or consolidate a series of items into to one, where the total size would exceed 1.98 GB results in a single item of 1.98 GB, and then a second item with the remainder. No amount of cajoling or intimidation will create a single item over 1.98 GB.

In project settings I have the file size before starting a new file set to 0. Also tried 4096 MB since that's double my requirements and it made no difference. I can't find any other reference or setting for this apparent limitation.

The file format is set to WAV 32bitFP at 176k.

The system is Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. Four hard drives (a 2tb, 1 3tb and 2 4tb) are present on the system, all with GPT partition. Reaper has a dedicated drive, the 2T one, and it has 1 T available. So I don't think there is an OS issue involved.

Anyone with an idea of what's happening here, and what to do about it?
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Old 02-29-2016, 03:07 PM   #2
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WAV file size limit is 2 GB in REAPER I think. Use WAV64 of RF64 formats (or "Auto WAV ...") instead. Or set file size before starting a new file to something lower than 2048 MB.

Last edited by Dstruct; 02-29-2016 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 02-29-2016, 03:46 PM   #3
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This is an old limitation from the days of FAT32, we will make it follow the recording preference.
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:08 PM   #4
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I stumbled across this a while back too. It was not following the recording file size preference and I couldn't find a separate glue file size preference. There are no 2GB file limits for anything else. OSX here.
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
This is an old limitation from the days of FAT32, we will make it follow the recording preference.
More research revealed that it is actually a limit of the WAV/RIFF format.

It looks like w64 should be the default format for recording for these large tracks, but in Project Settings there is no selection for large wave format, just WAV. There is a Large Files option, which I have set to Force Wave64. I don't understand when that applies, since the notion of Large Files isn't known (necessarily) at the beginning of the recording. Also, if the Format For Apply FX, Glue, Freeze, Etc., is set to Recording Format, does that mean what it sees the orginal items it uses whatever format they're in, or that it uses what is specified immediately above? Doesn't seem to make sense.

How do you define that you want the base filetype for all recording and conversion to be in w64?
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblue View Post
How do you define that you want the base filetype for all recording and conversion to be in w64?
"Force Wave64"

"Auto WAV/Wave64" only uses Wave64 for "large" (>2GB I guess) files otherwise WAV (more compatible to othe applications)
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:30 PM   #7
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The default wav format setting will use wave64 if necessary and .wav if the file ends up being smaller than 4GB (plain wav can do 4GB files), which is preferable IMO. Apparently FAT32 could do 4GB as well, maybe it was FAT16 which couldn't do more than 2GB...
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
The default wav format setting will use wave64 if necessary and .wav if the file ends up being smaller than 4GB (plain wav can do 4GB files), which is preferable IMO. Apparently FAT32 could do 4GB as well, maybe it was FAT16 which couldn't do more than 2GB...
Hmm. That hasn't been my experience so far. These tracks were created as larger than 2G, and during the original recording were complete. It was only upon inserting/replacing sections made into items that the resulting glue would fail to complete as one item when it hit 1.98 GB.

Now I have a project with a multitude of >2G tracks as one item each. Apparently, I'll need to convert all of them to w64 before Reaper can continue handling them as w64 files? That appears to be a manual process of replacing the wav's with w64's while Reaper is not running (easy process), then bring Reaper up and drag each of the new w64's over one by one from Media Explorer, Items too if not glued yet. Is there a better way?

Somehow, this should be easier.

There seems to be some confusion here about a 4G vs 2G cap on wav filesize. If 4G is the real wav max filesize, why is glue/consolidate barfing at 2G? Theoretically I should never have become aware of this issue.

Further, I just tried a track set which repeatedly fails to glue as one item, which I converted and loaded in as w64 files (two items), and then consolidated them, making sure that ForceW64 was set. They glued to the same two sizes as they were, but now are two wav files. The w64 designation didn't stick.

Besides Project Media defaults and Consolidate Output media type, are there any other areas of configuration needed?
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Old 02-29-2016, 06:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
"Force Wave64"

"Auto WAV/Wave64" only uses Wave64 for "large" (>2GB I guess) files otherwise WAV (more compatible to othe applications)

I think you'd be better using the RF64 extended formt than the old Sony Wave64. That's the modern standard.

Be good to see consolidate/glue follow the recording long file settings, didn't know it didn't, hadn't met that hurdle yet...




>
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Old 02-29-2016, 06:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Be good to see consolidate/glue follow the recording long file settings, didn't know it didn't, hadn't met that hurdle yet...
Project settings/Media: Format for Apply FX, Glue ...


Looks like the "Automatic .wav" default setting isn't using Wave64 or RF64!?
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Project settings/Media: Format for Apply FX, Glue ...


Looks like the "Automatic .wav" default setting isn't using Wave64 or RF64!?
Why would you want to use RF64 (or whatever) just for large files? Shouldn't it be settable as a default for all files of that project? There's no size penalty, whether wav, w64 or rf64 they occupy the same space for equivalent amounts of time. Just set the type you want to use and go. Maybe you could have a fallback mode if set to wav and a track goes over the limit... something like that.

I just found that if FORCE RF64 is set in Project settings, basic tracks of any size WILL be recorded in RF64, but with the standard WAV extension. If you also specify Recording Format for Format for Apply/Glue, it will maintain RF64 in the new file. However, it still fails to join the items together.

Why are Markers+Regions (in Project Settings) broken out separately? How is that used?

My head hurts.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblue View Post
Why would you want to use RF64 (or whatever) just for large files? Shouldn't it be settable as a default for all files of that project? There's no size penalty, whether wav, w64 or rf64 they occupy the same space for equivalent amounts of time. Just set the type you want to use and go. Maybe you could have a fallback mode if set to wav and a track goes over the limit... something like that.

I just found that if FORCE RF64 is set in Project settings, basic tracks of any size WILL be recorded in RF64, but with the standard WAV extension. If you also specify Recording Format for Format for Apply/Glue, it will maintain RF64 in the new file. However, it still fails to join the items together.

Why are Markers+Regions (in Project Settings) broken out separately? How is that used?

My head hurts.

Some audio handling software (esp in the consumer world) can't deal with the Sony Wave64 or the EBU RF64 wav format, so you might want to only use 64-bit address-space formats for files that need it, ie very long, multichannel, or both -here you tend to be only using specialist software anyway (eg DAWs) that can handle it.

"Auto wav/RF64" is that mode for recording, it just doesn't work for glue and consolidate yet...

The standard setting for RF64 files is ".wav" RF64 is a wav file, it's just an extended address-space version of one with a 64-bit integer chunk and file size system internally.

It's not failing to join the items together, it's failing to not create a new file at each 2GB limit when it doesn't need to

Justin is on it, it'll appear in the next update or so...


Not sure what your question is about on markers and regions. They can be included in recordings and renders as cue markers and cue regions. This is entirely separate from the ones in the DAW, they are embedded into the new wav files from the REAPER positions. REAPER can read and display them as dotted lines in the items, and create new markers and reqions based on them. You get the choice whether or not they are created.

Shout back if you need this bit further explaining (I can do pictures)





>
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Project settings/Media: Format for Apply FX, Glue ...

Looks like the "Automatic .wav" default setting isn't using Wave64 or RF64!?

Don't know for sure, because I've not looked inside the wavs at the chunks yet, but I suspect it's as before, still deciding it needs to split the written files, Dstruct...



>
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblue View Post
However, it still fails to join the items together.
Why that?
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Why that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
...
It's not failing to join the items together, it's failing to not create a new file at each 2GB limit when it doesn't need to

...

>

Presumeably because the devs forget to tell it to, it's a decision-making logic oversight, that's all...



>
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:26 PM   #16
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FIXED (5.16rc2)
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Some audio handling software (esp in the consumer world) can't deal with the Sony Wave64 or the EBU RF64 wav format, so you might want to only use 64-bit address-space formats for files that need it, ie very long, multichannel, or both -here you tend to be only using specialist software anyway (eg DAWs) that can handle it.
Right. Anything for use out of Reaper would be rendered & dithered down to a standard 24 bit wav at the required speed.

Quote:
"Auto wav/RF64" is that mode for recording, it just doesn't work for glue and consolidate yet...

The standard setting for RF64 files is ".wav" RF64 is a wav file, it's just an extended address-space version of one with a 64-bit integer chunk and file size system internally.
I see that now. I was getting tripped up by the difference in handling RF64 and WAVE64 formats.

Quote:
It's not failing to join the items together, it's failing to not create a new file at each 2GB limit when it doesn't need to
Isn't the above backwards? (double-negatives are perplexing) During a glue of RF64 files, it shouldn't pay any attention to 2GB chunks, since all items included should be written to 1 chunk reqardless of total size. No? That seems to be what it's not doing...

Quote:
Justin is on it, it'll appear in the next update or so...
Glad to hear that. I'll watch for updates. Meanwhile, this project is on hold.

Quote:
Not sure what your question is about on markers and regions. They can be included in recordings and renders as cue markers and cue regions. This is entirely separate from the ones in the DAW, they are embedded into the new wav files from the REAPER positions. REAPER can read and display them as dotted lines in the items, and create new markers and reqions based on them. You get the choice whether or not they are created.

Shout back if you need this bit further explaining (I can do pictures)
Thanks. :-) I think what confused me was not realizing that particular settings window was really a hodge-podge of various project configurations, with no distinction made of WHEN they apply. I use the markers and #markers occasionally on final rendering, but nothing else in that window was in the final rendering category. So... I couldn't figure the association. Mystery solved.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:49 PM   #18
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It is joining the chunks together by "glueing", it's just dividing the resultant wav again, at 2048MB intervals well, failing to write a whole one due to it's decision-making logic...

I glued six long items into one, and then got four items back: 3 at 2048MB, 1 at 142MB (the leftovers), it wasn't failing to join the six items together, it was failing to not split the resultant glued file...

Are we there yet?


>
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
It is joining the chunks together by "glueing", it's just dividing the resultant wav again, at 2048MB intervals well, failing to write a whole one due to it's decision-making logic...

I glued six long items into one, and then got four items back: 3 at 2048MB, 1 at 142MB (the leftovers), it wasn't failing to join the six items together, it was failing to not split the resultant glued file...

Are we there yet?


>
Yes. Though I still can't follow your original post with the double negatives and get this last description out of it. Oh well.

While I was writing my last post, Dstruct posted that 5.16rc2 was up with the fix. And fixed it is!

Thanks to Justin and others who helped make this happen so quickly! Now, back to the project.
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