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Old 08-31-2016, 12:50 AM   #1
juliansader
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Default Tempo map: Copying/moving Regions should insert two edge points at same time p[DONE!]

EDIT:
The original title of this thread was:
Tempo map: Cannot insert two envelope points at same time point

It seems that REAPER can in fact understand and use multiple tempo markers at the same time point. The problem is instead that REAPER's native actions for moving or copying Regions do not utilize this feature. Edge points get overwritten, leading to in the tempo map outside the Region.
/EDIT


The tempo map has a major deficiency compared to the other envelopes, namely that two (differently valued) envelope points cannot be inserted at the same time point.

This limitation cannot be due to any difficulties in calculating abrupt changes in tempo, since square-shaped points per definition involve such abrupt changes.

One example of the bugs caused by this limitation is that moving or copying Regions often leads to undesired and unintended changes in the tempo map. Regions always try to insert new envelope points at their boundaries when they are moved or copied, in order to preserve the shape of the pre-existing envelope. This works well in all envelopes except the tempo map:




The user can try to use hordes of square points to replace the linear ramp, but this leads to a clutter of tempo markers that is not only unsightly, but also conceals actual time signature changes. (Which of course leads to the Feature Request in my signature, and to hve's request for separate tempo and time signature envelopes.)




EDIT: Another bug that is probably caused by this limitation is described in Time signature bug when moving Regions.

Last edited by juliansader; 11-19-2017 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 08-31-2016, 04:38 AM   #2
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Yeah, i can totally reproduce that, and it's quite annoying.

However i think 2 tempo points at the same time could cause confusions in squared mode.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:30 AM   #3
juliansader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
However i think 2 tempo points at the same time could cause confusions in squared mode.
Fortunately, REAPER is able to handle this very nicely in other envelopes: no matter whether the mode is square, linear or Bézier, the first point represents the end value of the preceding curve, and the second point represents the starting value for the next curve.

Last edited by juliansader; 08-31-2016 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:31 PM   #4
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+100000000
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:55 AM   #5
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Copying -> pasting from another envelope makes this possible, but it needs further testing.
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Old 02-09-2017, 04:45 AM   #6
Sju
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You don't need to do that workaround. Just copypaste a point in there.



Cannot be drawn in though as far as I can tell?

Also, the marker tempo value doesn't display when two points are on top of each other.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:27 PM   #7
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whilst handy, neither of the workarounds solve the actual problem - having the tempo map envelope behave the same as other envelopes
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:30 PM   #8
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++++++++++1
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:41 PM   #9
emid
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+1 for this.
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Old 02-09-2017, 04:43 PM   #10
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+1

The copy/paste workaround is OK but not ideal by any means.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:23 PM   #11
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++++1 (message needs 5 characters)
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:20 AM   #12
juliansader
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As a demonstration that the tempo envelope can be properly preserved when moving or copying regions -- even when copying into a linear segment -- here is my own "Insert empty beats" script doing something similar:

(The tempo envelope is on top.)

Last edited by juliansader; 10-31-2017 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:41 AM   #13
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So is there any progression in this case?
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:46 AM   #14
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Obviously nothing yet.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:35 AM   #15
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DONE in v5.70!
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