MIDI markers not working in Logic

lexaproductions · 09-08-2016, 03:44 PM

Is there any reason why Logic does not see Reaper's Markers in a midi file?

I have to open the MIDI file in Digital Performer (Which them as Locked Markers), Unlock them all and re-export the MIDI file from DP. Them Logic sees them.

What's different from Reaper and DP concerning MIDI exports?

Tod · 09-08-2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexaproductions

Is there any reason why Logic does not see Reaper's Markers in a midi file?

I have to open the MIDI file in Digital Performer (Which them as Locked Markers), Unlock them all and re-export the MIDI file from DP. Them Logic sees them.

What's different from Reaper and DP concerning MIDI exports?

I don't know for sure, but try Regions instead of Markers.

Of course if you're doing this, just for individual markers, then it probably won't work.

lexaproductions · 09-09-2016, 07:00 AM

Will try thanks!

schwa · 09-09-2016, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexaproductions

Is there any reason why Logic does not see Reaper's Markers in a midi file?

I have to open the MIDI file in Digital Performer (Which them as Locked Markers), Unlock them all and re-export the MIDI file from DP. Them Logic sees them.

What's different from Reaper and DP concerning MIDI exports?

No idea, but if you want to export identical MIDI files containing only one note and one marker from both REAPER and DP, and post them here, we can take a look.

Tod · 09-09-2016, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwa

No idea, but if you want to export identical MIDI files containing only one note and one marker from both REAPER and DP, and post them here, we can take a look.

It would be great schwa, if the Markers could be used to create embedded sample loops like the Regions do.

The reason for this is that the Regions can be so important and useful for naming and saving the samples.

lexaproductions · 09-12-2016, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwa

No idea, but if you want to export identical MIDI files containing only one note and one marker from both REAPER and DP, and post them here, we can take a look.

Sorry for the late response. Here it is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/htmzbe5if1...Files.zip?dl=0

lexaproductions · 09-12-2016, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't know for sure, but try Regions instead of Markers.

Of course if you're doing this, just for individual markers, then it probably won't work.

...And I tried Regions but even DP doesn't recognize them as Markers.

schwa · 09-12-2016, 06:59 PM

Thanks, that answers the question. REAPER exports project markers as MIDI cues (just as the MIDI export dialog says), DP exports them as MIDI markers. Does Logic have an import option, or any kind of option, to see imported MIDI cues?

lexaproductions · 09-12-2016, 08:55 PM

I'm really a logic noob so I'd have to look at it. Never heard about MIDI cues.
Any way to have regular MIDI markers implemented?

Klangfarben · 09-12-2016, 10:50 PM

Logic does not have an option to read imported midi cues. AFAIK, Logic, Digital Performer and Pro Tools/Sibelius all use MIDI Markers, so it would be great if Reaper could do the same on export. Cubase will import MIDI Markers but not export them (even though there is an option in the prefs). Go figure.

When exporting standard MIDI files the markers are very important. Two main uses are: 1) When prepping Pro Tools files for score recording, you can put sync points in the marker names (Door slams shut, cut to battle, etc.) so that everyone on the scoring stage knows where the sync should be and the pro tools operator can double-check and verify everything is playing in the right spot.

2) When sending files to orchestrators, when they import them into Sibelius they can see any orchestration notes in the file where they happen (half mutes at m5, build to m11, etc.). Yes, you can of course email notes and the like, but things get missed that way. When they are right in the SMF and can be easily seen when the events actually occur, it makes the process much more efficient and easier for the orchestrators.

Feature request, perhaps?

ELP · 09-12-2016, 11:15 PM

nothing prevents you from inserting MIDI Marker Meta events

Klangfarben · 09-12-2016, 11:20 PM

Just tested with Digital Performer 8/9, Logic 10 and Sibelius 7/8 on OSX to verify. None of those programs are importing/reading Reaper markers when enabling "write project markers as MIDI cues" on SMF export in Reaper. Will test Cubase 8 and Pro Tools 10 on PC but assuming the same result. This is with Reaper 5.24 x64.

Since it doesn't look like any other major DAW or Sequencer does read MIDI cues, I think being able to export Project Markers as MIDI markers is pretty much essential.

Klangfarben · 09-13-2016, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELP

nothing prevents you from inserting MIDI Marker Meta events

A couple things actually.

1) A midi marker meta event is not going to show up on the ruler. It's going to be attached to a specific midi clip. So, you won't be able to easily see the markers, especially in a session with a large number of tracks. Even if you put a dummy track up top, you still won't be able to see the markers unless you happen to be looking at/working with only the first section of tracks in your session. Not likely in a large template.

2) I ran across a script someone wrote to insert midi marker at cursor but it generates an error message for me in 5.24 on both OSX and PC. By default, it's not exactly as easy as a normal workflow of hitting "m". Beyond that, renumbering/moving/re-ordering all become problematic as you have to edit midi data rather than project markers.

Reaper has the ability on MIDI import to convert MIDI markers to Project markers. Why would you also not want the same feature in MIDI export? If the developers already went to the trouble of coding that feature, doing the reverse would make sense as well seeing as they already realized the need for it.

lexaproductions · 09-13-2016, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

Just tested with Digital Performer 8/9, Logic 10 and Sibelius 7/8 on OSX to verify. None of those programs are importing/reading Reaper markers when enabling "write project markers as MIDI cues" on SMF export in Reaper.

I can't say for the others but DP definitely reads them as I use it to make my Reaper MIDI file "Logic-Friendly"

Klangfarben · 09-13-2016, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexaproductions

I can't say for the others but DP definitely reads them as I use it to make my Reaper MIDI file "Logic-Friendly"

Thanks for that. Can someone else verify with 5.24? Because if that's the case, clearly I'm doing something wrong on export. I tested with "write project markers as MIDI cues" both enabled and disabled on export. No difference. Trying now on Cubase 8 PC as well.

Klangfarben · 09-13-2016, 09:38 AM

Just tested on the PC side with 5.24 x64. With write project markers as MIDI cues enabled on export, Cubase 8 also does not read them when importing the MIDI file.

Interestingly enough, I made a new midi file and retested in DP and DP did read the marker files. I think there's a potential bug with Reaper's MIDI export. In my first attempt, I only put in a couple measures of data and put the markers after those measures. Even though I selected Entire Project for export, none of the markers after the midi data in the first couple measures were exported. In my opinion, that qualifies as a bug. If I have a hundred measure session and midi note/cc data in measures 1-10, put placeholder markers past measure 10 and select entire project and write project markers as midi cues, it should be exporting that data past measures 1-10.

Also, I opened the MIDI file in Sekaiju, a really useful open-source MIDI editor that I use for prepping MIDI (http://openmidiproject.osdn.jp/Sekaiju_en.html) and MIDI cue points are being exported correctly. But right now, out of Digital Performer, Logic, Sibelius and Cubase, only DP seems to read them. Have not tried Pro Tools yet.

Another thing that is confusing is if you import that exported MIDI file back into Reaper, Reaper prompts you to import the in this case 6 MIDI Markers. Since they are actually MIDI cue points and not markers, it seems like Reaper is treating them as the same thing, whereas most of the programs above are not. Since that is the case, I really think there should be an option on export to also export markers as MIDI Marker meta events so that the majority of programs other people use and that we send files to on a regular basis can read them as markers.

MIDI and RPP file included below if anyone wants to verify.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...ker%20Test.mid

https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...Test%20RPP.zip

09-08-2016, 03:44 PM	#1
lexaproductions Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,192	MIDI markers not working in Logic Is there any reason why Logic does not see Reaper's Markers in a midi file? I have to open the MIDI file in Digital Performer (Which them as Locked Markers), Unlock them all and re-export the MIDI file from DP. Them Logic sees them. What's different from Reaper and DP concerning MIDI exports? __________________ REALIVE: a reaper config to use REAPER live: WITH A PDF MANUAL!!!

09-09-2016, 07:00 AM	#3
lexaproductions Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,192	Will try thanks! __________________ REALIVE: a reaper config to use REAPER live: WITH A PDF MANUAL!!!

09-12-2016, 08:55 PM	#9
lexaproductions Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,192	I'm really a logic noob so I'd have to look at it. Never heard about MIDI cues. Any way to have regular MIDI markers implemented? __________________ REALIVE: a reaper config to use REAPER live: WITH A PDF MANUAL!!!

09-12-2016, 11:15 PM	#11
ELP Human being with feelings Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 943	nothing prevents you from inserting MIDI Marker Meta events __________________ I hope you can understand me? Without german beer my written english is always very bad, with beer it becomes unbearable!. Less is more! To much limited the own creativity.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-12-2016, 06:59 PM	#8
schwa Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY Posts: 16,498	Thanks, that answers the question. REAPER exports project markers as MIDI cues (just as the MIDI export dialog says), DP exports them as MIDI markers. Does Logic have an import option, or any kind of option, to see imported MIDI cues?

09-12-2016, 10:50 PM	#10
Klangfarben Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,725	Logic does not have an option to read imported midi cues. AFAIK, Logic, Digital Performer and Pro Tools/Sibelius all use MIDI Markers, so it would be great if Reaper could do the same on export. Cubase will import MIDI Markers but not export them (even though there is an option in the prefs). Go figure. When exporting standard MIDI files the markers are very important. Two main uses are: 1) When prepping Pro Tools files for score recording, you can put sync points in the marker names (Door slams shut, cut to battle, etc.) so that everyone on the scoring stage knows where the sync should be and the pro tools operator can double-check and verify everything is playing in the right spot. 2) When sending files to orchestrators, when they import them into Sibelius they can see any orchestration notes in the file where they happen (half mutes at m5, build to m11, etc.). Yes, you can of course email notes and the like, but things get missed that way. When they are right in the SMF and can be easily seen when the events actually occur, it makes the process much more efficient and easier for the orchestrators. Feature request, perhaps?

09-12-2016, 11:20 PM	#12
Klangfarben Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,725	Just tested with Digital Performer 8/9, Logic 10 and Sibelius 7/8 on OSX to verify. None of those programs are importing/reading Reaper markers when enabling "write project markers as MIDI cues" on SMF export in Reaper. Will test Cubase 8 and Pro Tools 10 on PC but assuming the same result. This is with Reaper 5.24 x64. Since it doesn't look like any other major DAW or Sequencer does read MIDI cues, I think being able to export Project Markers as MIDI markers is pretty much essential.

09-13-2016, 09:38 AM	#16
Klangfarben Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,725	Just tested on the PC side with 5.24 x64. With write project markers as MIDI cues enabled on export, Cubase 8 also does not read them when importing the MIDI file. Interestingly enough, I made a new midi file and retested in DP and DP did read the marker files. I think there's a potential bug with Reaper's MIDI export. In my first attempt, I only put in a couple measures of data and put the markers after those measures. Even though I selected Entire Project for export, none of the markers after the midi data in the first couple measures were exported. In my opinion, that qualifies as a bug. If I have a hundred measure session and midi note/cc data in measures 1-10, put placeholder markers past measure 10 and select entire project and write project markers as midi cues, it should be exporting that data past measures 1-10. Also, I opened the MIDI file in Sekaiju, a really useful open-source MIDI editor that I use for prepping MIDI (http://openmidiproject.osdn.jp/Sekaiju_en.html) and MIDI cue points are being exported correctly. But right now, out of Digital Performer, Logic, Sibelius and Cubase, only DP seems to read them. Have not tried Pro Tools yet. Another thing that is confusing is if you import that exported MIDI file back into Reaper, Reaper prompts you to import the in this case 6 MIDI Markers. Since they are actually MIDI cue points and not markers, it seems like Reaper is treating them as the same thing, whereas most of the programs above are not. Since that is the case, I really think there should be an option on export to also export markers as MIDI Marker meta events so that the majority of programs other people use and that we send files to on a regular basis can read them as markers. MIDI and RPP file included below if anyone wants to verify. https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...ker%20Test.mid https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...Test%20RPP.zip