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10-06-2016, 07:14 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 169
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Drum pads produce MIDI notes of zero duration
I'm using Pyle Pro PTED01 drum pads. It's a toy, I know. Don't judge me
Reaper recognizes them as a MIDI input device through a USB connection.
I can get them to trigger EZDrummer 2 drums, but not some other drum VSTs, for example GTG Drum Sampler. When I tested them with mda ePiano, they trigger notes that are super short.
If I record drum hits, I get MIDI note ons, notes with zero duration, and no MIDI note off.
So my question is, is there a plugin or script that can "add" duration to a note on the fly (as opposed to editing the length after recording)?
I tried JS MIDI Note Hold, with no luck. If I play notes on a keyboard, it will "hold" them until a new note is played, but not with the drum pads.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Dave_t
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10-06-2016, 08:57 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 5,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_t
I'm using Pyle Pro PTED01 drum pads. It's a toy, I know. Don't judge me
Reaper recognizes them as a MIDI input device through a USB connection.
I can get them to trigger EZDrummer 2 drums, but not some other drum VSTs, for example GTG Drum Sampler. When I tested them with mda ePiano, they trigger notes that are super short.
If I record drum hits, I get MIDI note ons, notes with zero duration, and no MIDI note off.
So my question is, is there a plugin or script that can "add" duration to a note on the fly (as opposed to editing the length after recording)?
I tried JS MIDI Note Hold, with no luck. If I play notes on a keyboard, it will "hold" them until a new note is played, but not with the drum pads.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Dave_t
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Check the included midi tools plugin.
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Salamat
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09-22-2017, 01:11 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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After pulling my hair out as to why I was not hearing my KAT KT-1 controller triggering sounds in Reaper, I learned I am experiencing the exact same issue as Dave. However, after a post to the Facebook Reaper group and exhaustive searching, I have yet to find a MIDI tool that is making the simple USB MIDI interfacing of KAT brain to Laptop w/Reaper create a sound from a VSTi. I was told to look for the JS Midi Note Hold as well (which I still haven't found incidentally, only the midiChordHold on Piz), and that is what lead me to finding this post.
This should be SO simple, and yet...anyone have any ideas? It's the note duration of 0.0 that is making this happen as best anyone can surmise. I PROMISE if we get an answer I will gleefully post everywhere to help out the other poor drummers who are simply trying to be creative and hook up dang drum pads to Reaper and record themselves laying down a groove.
GOD I miss tape & sends....
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09-22-2017, 02:17 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suleiman
Check the included midi tools plugin.
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Are you talking about Reascripts? Which JS would you suggest if MidiNoteHold isn't resolving the issue?
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09-22-2017, 02:41 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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How about JS: Midi Note Length Control ? It seems to allow you to set a minimum note length which I think is what you're asking for.
Steve
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09-22-2017, 02:48 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
How about JS: Midi Note Length Control ? It seems to allow you to set a minimum note length which I think is what you're asking for.
Steve
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Well I was looking for JS Midi Note Hold, which is how I found this Op's post, and he says it doesn't work with his pads, so I am assuming it wouldn't work for mine. If Midi Note Length Control is something different, and you can offer any guidance on where the heck I might find it, I am MORE than happy to be a guinea pig.
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09-22-2017, 02:51 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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I clicked on the FX button then looked in the JS folder and there it was. Put it first in the FX list before the VST that is playing the notes and try it. I can't since I don't have anything that produces zero length notes.
Steve
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09-22-2017, 04:20 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,669
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Quote:
Pyle Pro PTED01 drum pads. It's a toy, I know. Don't judge me
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these are all toys. kudos for making stuff do what you want it to.
you don't want to spend 100 bucks for it, but for this kind of thing (and ALL midi processing) i find Plogue Bidule to be irreplaceable. it's just too good.
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09-22-2017, 07:46 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
I clicked on the FX button then looked in the JS folder and there it was. Put it first in the FX list before the VST that is playing the notes and try it. I can't since I don't have anything that produces zero length notes.
Steve
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Found it, thank you! So I put it in the list and changed the note parameter to minimum of 6. Live it changed nothing. Recorded it, and it changed nothing as well on playback. Went manually into track and again, all note length vals were "0.0" so hopefully I am just using the JS plugin tool wrong? See attached screenshot. Help on that would be appreciated.
When I manually entered the first few notes' value in the recorded MIDI to be a longer value than 0.0, I got my percussion sounds bangin away on playback. Uggh...I tire of having to be a programmer to play my drums....
Thanks for your assistance!
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09-23-2017, 01:27 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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I can't really read much on that picture but you definitely aren't using "MIDI Note Length Control". That only has 5 controls.
BTW the note lengths work in beats (1/4 notes) so if you want a sensible note length like maybe 1/8th or 1/16th you have to enter the length yourself as a decimal e.g. 0.5 or 0.25. A bit of a pain but it does seem to work.
Steve
Last edited by slipstick; 09-23-2017 at 01:46 AM.
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09-25-2017, 09:22 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
I can't really read much on that picture but you definitely aren't using "MIDI Note Length Control". That only has 5 controls.
BTW the note lengths work in beats (1/4 notes) so if you want a sensible note length like maybe 1/8th or 1/16th you have to enter the length yourself as a decimal e.g. 0.5 or 0.25. A bit of a pain but it does seem to work.
Steve
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Thanks AGain Steve. It appears I only have the JS called "MIDI Note Hold" which looks entirely different from your screen shot. I tried editing and saving the length parameter in it to "1" but the changes had no effect on live hitting a pad or the recorded MIDI...I'm still getting zeros.
I'm assuming this is one of those things where I will soon receive a message saying "Dude you need to upgrade" or something along those lines...
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09-25-2017, 11:53 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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Well I'm still on 5.40 but if you don't have the ReaPack extensions installed then you're probably missing many useful scripts and actions that make my life a lot easier. And that includes that MIDI Note Length Control JS.
See https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177978
Steve
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09-25-2017, 01:40 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
Well I'm still on 5.40 but if you don't have the ReaPack extensions installed then you're probably missing many useful scripts and actions that make my life a lot easier. And that includes that MIDI Note Length Control JS.
See https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177978
Steve
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Awesome thank you! Found it, installed it, still not changed result. Set to 1 beats for minimum, .5 per your recommendation, all MIDI and else looks spot on, yet still no VSTi triggered and 0.0 being recorded as note length...screenshot attached
The pads trigger sounds in maschine, so it's not some weird obscure thing on connectivity, it's def them talking to Reaper...Truly baffling
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09-26-2017, 02:44 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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Sorry but I did say I didn't have anything that sends zero length notes to test with.
I had a quick look at the code in MIDI Note Length Control and it seems to rely on seeing Note On and Note Off MIDI commands to detect note length. Maybe your pads are sending something odd.
It would be interesting to see exactly what MIDI commands your drum pads do send. Can you load the JS "MIDI Logger" (or Darkstar's improved MIDI logger if you have that - https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189126 ) on the track, set it to record (so the time field increments), do a few hits and post a picture of the results? That should show up exactly what commands are arriving when. With that information I (or more likely one of the better coders) might be able to do something about it.
These things all add interest (and sometimes frustration) to life.
Steve
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09-26-2017, 08:33 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
It would be interesting to see exactly what MIDI commands your drum pads do send. Can you load the JS "MIDI Logger" (or Darkstar's improved MIDI logger if you have that - https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189126 ) on the track, set it to record (so the time field increments), do a few hits and post a picture of the results? That should show up exactly what commands are arriving when. With that information I (or more likely one of the better coders) might be able to do something about it.
These things all add interest (and sometimes frustration) to life.
Steve
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You bet, thanks Steve, it's attached.
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09-26-2017, 10:23 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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O.K. I got round to trying it with that DSK VST you're using. It doesn't take input on Channel 10, only on MIDI Channel 1. If you can change the MIDI channel on the pads or perhaps try some different VSTs you may find things work a lot better.
Most VSTs will take input on all MIDI channels and plenty will trigger o.k. even with zero length notes but some don't like them. I tried MT-Power DrumKit (excellent free drum VSTi) which was fine on CH10 and with zero length as was Drumatic3 http://www.e-phonic.com/plugins/drumatic3.php A couple of other freebies were o.k. with the channel but not with zero length notes.
Steve
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09-28-2017, 07:37 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
O.K. I got round to trying it with that DSK VST you're using. It doesn't take input on Channel 10, only on MIDI Channel 1. If you can change the MIDI channel on the pads or perhaps try some different VSTs you may find things work a lot better.
Most VSTs will take input on all MIDI channels and plenty will trigger o.k. even with zero length notes but some don't like them. I tried MT-Power DrumKit (excellent free drum VSTi) which was fine on CH10 and with zero length as was Drumatic3 http://www.e-phonic.com/plugins/drumatic3.php A couple of other freebies were o.k. with the channel but not with zero length notes.
Steve
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Thanks so much for your efforts on this Steve..the MT-Power DrumKit Worked! So the short answer is...as you said....some VST's just won't work with that incoming note length, and the JS Midi Note Length seems to need at least SOMETHING to start with in order to lengthen. A frustrating reality until I either get KAT to tell me how (which I am fairly sure is impossible) to lengthen outgoing MIDI note length OR until I purchase a different interface, like a D-DRUM or Alesis dedicated pad midi interface.
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09-28-2017, 08:39 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 878
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Glad you got at least some drums working. Did you try the pads on Ch1 with the original DSK VST if that's one you like?
If you can't change the channel number in the pads then that's something that JS: MIDI Tool should be able to do for you. Input Ch 10, Output Ch1.
Steve
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09-29-2017, 07:05 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Portsmouth NH - USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
Glad you got at least some drums working. Did you try the pads on Ch1 with the original DSK VST if that's one you like?
If you can't change the channel number in the pads then that's something that JS: MIDI Tool should be able to do for you. Input Ch 10, Output Ch1.
Steve
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Ha! Nope! Might be just some odd bug in the DSK Mini Drums, but neither the MIDI tool nor the V2 got me any live triggering.
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03-14-2018, 09:28 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
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Solution
To anybody still following this thread, I have cooked up a workaround.
I have an Alesis Nitro drum kit that exhibits the same problem the other posters have discussed. The MIDI notes are zero length (i.e. the on and off happen on the same clock cycle). If I manually adjust the note length after performance, it works, but of course this is a pain. It also makes live monitoring impossible.
I wrote a small (and probably imperfect) JSFX script that will delay the MIDI note off event by a configurable number of milliseconds. For me, 3ms seems to get the job done, and it's still well below the minimum time the human ear can discern.
The JSFX plugin can be inserted either on the track being recorded, or before the VSTi that refuses to trigger. Both ways work. I tested it with DSK Mini Drums and some other VSTi plugins that refused to cooperate. This not only resolves playback, but live triggering as well.
As I'm new on the forums, I'm not sure where the script should be shared. If you are interested in taking it for a spin, send me a private message.
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