Comp issues (Solved - most of...)

Gianfini · 10-10-2016, 08:48 AM

Hi all.

I have made up my mind for days before coming to this post. Actually what drives me is that the current reaper (take) COMP implementation is not suited to intense comping work. It's a matter of bugs+missing features that ends up messing comps in the end

CONTEXT
Imagine you have three tracks (e.g. three mics in a recording session) with 5 takes each, and you group the items to allow takes moving along in sync (Reaper v2.24)

ISSUE ONE: COMPS GET MESSY AFTER SPLIT
- I select TAKE 3 of an item as the best take and save is as "COMP A"
- I then want to find a second best but I realize that I have to combine Take 2 and Take 4 to get it. So only way to combine different takes in Reaper is to SPLIT the item so I SPLIT the item and select take 2 for the first part and take 4 for the other
- I save this new setup by selecting both splitted items as "COMP B"
- ISSUE: i can recall COMP A just for the first splitted item, because the second item (coming from the split) doesn't have COMP A attached to it... so I have to re-save again COMP A

POTENTIAL SOLUTION
- solution 1: when splitting give users an option to propagate the COMP present to pre-split items to all resulting split items
- solution 1 (continued): in addition create a visual tool that visually shows which items are belonging to which COMP (e.g. by highlighting them or listing them somewhere) and allows to include/exclude items from comp
- solution 1 (preferred): put a new symbol on item when it belongs to a comp, by clicking on it a scroll-down apperars with ALL COMPS and with mouse-over all other items belonging to that comp highlight
- solution 2: do not oblige splitting items to cross comp takes... as Logic and other DAWs do (I couldn't resist, I know this might be a major complexity improvement)

ISSUE TWO: if you "save as.." a file with COMPS in it moving all files along with it on a portable media, when you open it on another PC comps names GET RESET and show "COMP1, COMP2, COMP3" instead than originally given names
SOLUTION: should fix it

ISSUE THREE: Why on a fresh new file when I sAVE AS NEW COMP.. default numbering gets something like COMP33, following on continous numbering from other files/projects? Shouldn't it reset for each project?

ISSUE FOUR: When ITEMS ARE GROUPED saving a COMP for one item should propagate to all grouped items. Unfortunately this doesn't happen and takes get dis-aligned even if items are grouped (see attach below)

g

Gianfini · 10-10-2016, 10:05 AM

I realized there's another undesirable behavior. If you have two items, you save COMP A on item 1 and COMP B with both item selected, when you select both items COMP A appears as well, even if it belongs only to item 1

This creates a problem. For example when we select TAKE 2 on item 1 and save as COMP A, whenever TAKE 2 is active even if we select both items (1+2) REaper believes that COMP A is selected and don't give me the possibility to save an additional COMP, based on TAKE 2 for Item 1 and TAKE xx for Item 2

POTENTIAL SOLUTION:
Management of Comps should be nested. If I select a certain set of items I will see ONLY COMPS that save a configuration for all those selected items, NOT the ones belonging to single items included in the selection (or they should show up with a different color or something).
Definitely a COMP manager would be much desirable!

g

James HE · 10-10-2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianfini

Hi all.

I have made up my mind for days before coming to this post. Actually what drives me is that the current reaper (take) COMP implementation is completely un-usable.

Fixed that for you

So, I'm with you %100 that there needs to a lot of improvements to the comping system. There have been a million threads about the issues with REAPER's Takes system - but really the biggest problem with "takes" is that the comping system really fails.

If you have the time to check this out, I've written a script that creates it's own Comp system. This all needs an update - should probably get thi on ReaPack - maybe later this week.

Still, the same issues involved in splitting items are there. I had intended to make sort of a playlist / comp hybrid to possibly fix that issue, however it involved more manipulation of track chunks than I really want to be doing in a script. The potential solution that you outlined in your post has given me another idea to try - so thanks for that - I'll update if I get anywhere with it.

download (from guithub): https://github.com/JamesHEure/Reascript

Video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjR1Jr4VSuM

Gianfini · 10-11-2016, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James HE

Fixed that for you

So, I'm with you %100 ...

Will have a look to the script an let you know for sure, thanks.

I don't want to say that takes and comping is terrible. I think few right adjustments and it will reach good usability.

For take system, I believe the only BIG thing is to decide to pass to a take comping which is not driven by actual item splitting (see Logic Pro swiping method). This would potentially require a HUGE design and programming effort, so for the moment being devs should focus at improving what we have, listening to everybody

For my workflow, already addressing those 5 issues above would be a material improvement

g

Justin · 10-12-2016, 09:10 PM

Fixes for most of these issues coming soon!

Gianfini · 10-13-2016, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

Fixes for most of these issues coming soon!

Thanks Justin! looking forward to test it.

g

James HE · 10-13-2016, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

Fixes for most of these issues coming soon!

exciting!

SonicAxiom · 10-13-2016, 09:24 AM

quantum leap would be that cross-fades between takes are no longer done via one global fade per item but preserved on an individual cross-fade per-take basis - while comping and also while switching takes manually!

James HE · 10-13-2016, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

quantum leap would be that cross-fades between takes are no longer done via one global fade per item but preserved on an individual cross-fade per-take basis - while comping and also while switching takes manually!

My Comp Script does this - when switching comps at least. Also, the item length and position and startoffset are stored/recalled. This is needed, for example, if you want to A/B between 2 comps where a vocalist has different phrasing.

Currently, the item position and length is stored in REAPER comps (check out Take Comps in the Project Bay) - but this information is not used at all! it just displays the current item position and length. (same is true for startoffset and take volume.)

Would be great to actually store / recall this info - and also store / recall the fade / mute / pan info as well.

I'm not sure if any of that is feasible or even desired behavior when switching takes manually though.

SonicAxiom · 10-13-2016, 10:06 AM

your script seems to offer a variety of very clever features, James. I'll maybe give it a try.

tweaks I do to achieve the optimal transition from take A to take B often make sense uniquely between the two and are not desired for the transitions from take A to any other take. So all individual tweaks related to the transition between two takes need to be stored separately (and not only if I'm switching comps).

James HE · 10-13-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

your script seems to offer a variety of very clever features, James. I'll maybe give it a try.

tweaks I do to achieve the optimal transition from take A to take B often make sense uniquely between the two and are not desired for the transitions from take A to any other take. So all individual tweaks related to the transition between two takes need to be stored separately (and not only if I'm switching comps).

Sure, some sort of inter item take relationship would be nice to have.

For anyone looking to try out the script get it here for now. https://github.com/JamesHEure/Reascript

*The stash is being wacko about updating it seems

There is an issue that I'm trying to track down where deleting / overwriting a single comp OVERWRITES ALL THE COMPS!

So HUGE issue there. I'm not sure if something changed between REAPER versions to break it, or if was broken from the start (I remember this working previously, but may be mistaken)

*Issue may have been on my end with a minor tweak to a string function in my version of the import library. If you had previously downloaded this, you should be fine, but...

I Updated the scripts to a previous beta version that includes more filtering options (filter by selected tracks) and also some small gui tweaks. So re-download it anyway

Since it looks like new features are being added to comps - I'm just going to hold of working on this for now, I had been working on some logic to detect post comp-save splits and deal with them.

SonicAxiom · 10-13-2016, 12:04 PM

Reaper's openness and "democratic spirit" letting users contribute to the whole via their own scripts and JS fx is unvaluable! Thanks for your sophisticated contributions, James (and numerous others alike) and Cockos crew for continuing the Reaper project promoting the "community attitude".

Gianfini · 11-15-2016, 07:53 AM

Ok,just to follow up, couple of versione down the road

-ISSUE 1 - SOLVED
-ISSUE 2 - SOLVED
-ISSUE 3 - SOLVED
-ISSUE 4 - SOLVED

What is still keeping us apart from a higly performing comp system is the ability to visually show the different COMPS active on an item or item set, through overlay boundaries or through a "COMP Manager" window

I understand this point is more in the FR area than in the BF...

g

10-10-2016, 08:48 AM	#1
Gianfini Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 802	Comp issues (Solved - most of...) Hi all. I have made up my mind for days before coming to this post. Actually what drives me is that the current reaper (take) COMP implementation is not suited to intense comping work. It's a matter of bugs+missing features that ends up messing comps in the end CONTEXT Imagine you have three tracks (e.g. three mics in a recording session) with 5 takes each, and you group the items to allow takes moving along in sync (Reaper v2.24) ISSUE ONE: COMPS GET MESSY AFTER SPLIT - I select TAKE 3 of an item as the best take and save is as "COMP A" - I then want to find a second best but I realize that I have to combine Take 2 and Take 4 to get it. So only way to combine different takes in Reaper is to SPLIT the item so I SPLIT the item and select take 2 for the first part and take 4 for the other - I save this new setup by selecting both splitted items as "COMP B" - ISSUE: i can recall COMP A just for the first splitted item, because the second item (coming from the split) doesn't have COMP A attached to it... so I have to re-save again COMP A POTENTIAL SOLUTION - solution 1: when splitting give users an option to propagate the COMP present to pre-split items to all resulting split items - solution 1 (continued): in addition create a visual tool that visually shows which items are belonging to which COMP (e.g. by highlighting them or listing them somewhere) and allows to include/exclude items from comp - solution 1 (preferred): put a new symbol on item when it belongs to a comp, by clicking on it a scroll-down apperars with ALL COMPS and with mouse-over all other items belonging to that comp highlight - solution 2: do not oblige splitting items to cross comp takes... as Logic and other DAWs do (I couldn't resist, I know this might be a major complexity improvement) ISSUE TWO: if you "save as.." a file with COMPS in it moving all files along with it on a portable media, when you open it on another PC comps names GET RESET and show "COMP1, COMP2, COMP3" instead than originally given names SOLUTION: should fix it ISSUE THREE: Why on a fresh new file when I sAVE AS NEW COMP.. default numbering gets something like COMP33, following on continous numbering from other files/projects? Shouldn't it reset for each project? ISSUE FOUR: When ITEMS ARE GROUPED saving a COMP for one item should propagate to all grouped items. Unfortunately this doesn't happen and takes get dis-aligned even if items are grouped (see attach below) g Last edited by Gianfini; 11-15-2016 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Solved

10-10-2016, 10:05 AM	#2
Gianfini Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 802	5th COMP ISSUE I realized there's another undesirable behavior. If you have two items, you save COMP A on item 1 and COMP B with both item selected, when you select both items COMP A appears as well, even if it belongs only to item 1 This creates a problem. For example when we select TAKE 2 on item 1 and save as COMP A, whenever TAKE 2 is active even if we select both items (1+2) REaper believes that COMP A is selected and don't give me the possibility to save an additional COMP, based on TAKE 2 for Item 1 and TAKE xx for Item 2 POTENTIAL SOLUTION: Management of Comps should be nested. If I select a certain set of items I will see ONLY COMPS that save a configuration for all those selected items, NOT the ones belonging to single items included in the selection (or they should show up with a different color or something). Definitely a COMP manager would be much desirable! g Last edited by Gianfini; 10-10-2016 at 10:20 AM.

10-12-2016, 09:10 PM	#5
Justin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 16,117	Fixes for most of these issues coming soon! Last edited by Justin; 10-12-2016 at 10:49 PM.

11-15-2016, 07:53 AM	#13
Gianfini Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 802	Solved (mainly..) Ok,just to follow up, couple of versione down the road -ISSUE 1 - SOLVED -ISSUE 2 - SOLVED -ISSUE 3 - SOLVED -ISSUE 4 - SOLVED What is still keeping us apart from a higly performing comp system is the ability to visually show the different COMPS active on an item or item set, through overlay boundaries or through a "COMP Manager" window I understand this point is more in the FR area than in the BF... g

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10-13-2016, 09:24 AM	#8
SonicAxiom Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 3,243	quantum leap would be that cross-fades between takes are no longer done via one global fade per item but preserved on an individual cross-fade per-take basis - while comping and also while switching takes manually!

10-13-2016, 10:06 AM	#10
SonicAxiom Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 3,243	your script seems to offer a variety of very clever features, James. I'll maybe give it a try. tweaks I do to achieve the optimal transition from take A to take B often make sense uniquely between the two and are not desired for the transitions from take A to any other take. So all individual tweaks related to the transition between two takes need to be stored separately (and not only if I'm switching comps).

10-13-2016, 12:04 PM	#12
SonicAxiom Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 3,243	Reaper's openness and "democratic spirit" letting users contribute to the whole via their own scripts and JS fx is unvaluable! Thanks for your sophisticated contributions, James (and numerous others alike) and Cockos crew for continuing the Reaper project promoting the "community attitude".