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Old 01-05-2017, 05:43 AM   #41
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You might want to look at Ctrlr, Geoff. Is has many features that you, guys, discussed here, including extensive Lua scripting. The only thing that is preventing me from creating my own midi<>osc bridge to control Reaper with Novation SL midi controller is that OSC support is currently broken in Ctrlr, but dev promised to fix it in future versions.
Here's the link to the main page - http://ctrlr.org/
Here's the link to my thread there - http://ctrlr.org/forums/topic/novati...idiosc-bridge/
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:03 AM   #42
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Why is it that Reaper embraces several scripting languages but not JavaScript (ECMAScript, TypeScript)?

It runs at about 85% of C speed on the V8 engine in Chrome.

Look at:
electron.js http://electron.atom.io/
Node.js https://nodejs.org/en/
D3 https://d3js.org/
SVG http://svgjs.com/
interact.js http://interactjs.io/
VS Code http://code.visualstudio.com/?wt.mc_...FQ9Efgod1_wM7Q

( leave it to Micro$oft to come up with a URL like that!)

All of these together allow thinking way out of the box.

It is the most used (abused) programming language. And being event driven is 'sehr gut'. Also OOP (mostly).

Sorry if this is off topic.

EDIT:
On the other hand, the new web interface opens up possibilities for web communications thru the browser! Dah!!!
So by embracing HTML5, JavaScript gets in on the "group hug". One could develop a js library for Reaper interaction assuming the Reaper API is open enough to provide effective two-way connection. Haven't had time lately to look into this since I've been getting back up to speed in js technology. Mucho advancement since I retired 7 years ago!

Guess I'll have to make time to look into http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=185213
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:44 AM   #43
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Default mcu user .... 25 years of logic and now focussed on reaper

HI, I've been using the universal control for 10 years or so in logic. Delighted to dump that program after 25 years (since v4!) only possible because of the the way reaper people work as well as reaper itself. 2 weeks in, bought, and now learning the amount of possibilities. Just wanting to say Geoff, hats off for this. Reaper blatantly has the greater potential for customisation of commands for the universal. I've gone a long way with it already, setting up one click plugs and all the other stuff I wished to do consistently in logic but couldn't.
One feature I really get confused about "HOW" to do... bring up a plugin or 3, and have the foremost plugin window signify assigned and pre programmable control from all faders/knobs on the universal, then go back to the general track controls once the plugin windows are shut, or if only the foremost window is shut, the controller sets up to the next plugin in in the foreground till all/any are closed. That would be a massive workflow one for me.
Delighted to be sent to test/report any beta for the mcu..
Thanks again for the undertaking.... os x tends to take a back seat, but would be so useful and work cutting if you were able to do this. I will help in any way, thanks
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:15 AM   #44
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OK, here's a quick and dirty proof of concept on how i think we can integrate an iPad into this project.

The basic idea is that you launch an iPad app, Reaper senses it, and begins communication.

Then, whenever you focus on a VST, the iPad automatically displays a multitouch version that you can interact with:

https://youtu.be/1TtQmnD-x6U
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:12 AM   #45
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Ya hadda use an iPad, dincha (grin)

In all seriousness, I think you have our attention now, Geoff.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:57 PM   #46
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No way!!!!!!! Well it seems I will buy myself a first apple device
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:39 PM   #47
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wwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhooooooooaaaaaahhhhhhhh !!
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Following a bit of discussion in the Feature Request subforum (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=179220), I have decided to take on the task of improving support in this area.

This is an open call for feature requests, overall philosophies, dream/cadillac solutions, etc.

Just trying to get a feel for what we should attempt to build here.
Roughly in order of importance to me:

MIDI parameter feedback. First, allow an output port to receive control messages, then if an action is mapped to a MIDI CC, when that action is taken, output the new value to all ports configured for control.

Allow mapping of actions to an MMC Sysex code. Would allow the transport functions to be remapped to different variations of the action (like play/pause instead of just play, or punch in/out instead of just starting recording), without having to remap the transport keys to CCs (not always possible).

"Shuttle" MIDI CC mapping behavior. Use a rotary, fader or the pitch wheel on a MIDI device as a shuttle wheel, where the more you move the controller from center, the faster/more often the action is performed. Bonus points for configuration options for sensitivity of the shuttling and amount of "dead zone" near 64.

MIDI Learn as a context menu option. Would allow right-clicking a control, choosing the "MIDI Learn..." option, confirming the action being learned from a shortlist of possible (e.g. "Set pan for selected track" vs "Set pan for track X"), then moving the desired controller. Good for tweaking controls after a more focused mapping session with the actions list.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for reading.
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Old 01-21-2017, 05:04 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, here's a quick and dirty proof of concept on how i think we can integrate an iPad into this project.

The basic idea is that you launch an iPad app, Reaper senses it, and begins communication.

Then, whenever you focus on a VST, the iPad automatically displays a multitouch version that you can interact with:

https://youtu.be/1TtQmnD-x6U
That's special. Very interesting.
How do you create the equivalent on the iPad ?
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:04 AM   #50
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That's special. Very interesting.
How do you create the equivalent on the iPad ?
Of course that demo was not functional, but here's the concept:

Launch app on iPad.

This starts 2 way OSC communication.

Whenever a plugin receives focus, Reaper tells the iPad app a new plugin needs representation on the iPad.

iPad requests graphics/multitouch elements for the plugin, if it doesn't have them.

Reaper sends elements over via OSC, along with data for current settings, etc.

iPad displays graphics and adds appropriate multitouch controls set to current settings.

User interacts with iPad and new settings get sent to Reaper.

The whole idea is zero-config networking and zero app config on the iPad, it just works when you launch the iPad app.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #51
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What do you need for the plugin to work ? Any preparation necessary ?
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:59 AM   #52
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Quote:
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What do you need for the plugin to work ? Any preparation necessary ?
Oh, this is very early days, I've got tons of work to do to get things working.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:59 AM   #53
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Well, after playing with this concept for a while under my fingers, it just doesn't feel right, and there is nothing I can think of doing to make it any better.

Back to the drawing board
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Old 01-24-2017, 05:07 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
there is nothing I can think of doing to make it any better.
Maybe you would like to discuss the UI publicly? There are lots of other control apps for iOS, Android and Windows, where you could pick up some inspiration.
Like this one, for example - https://touchinnovations.com/products/emulator-2/
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Old 01-24-2017, 05:45 PM   #55
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Maybe you would like to discuss the UI publicly? There are lots of other control apps for iOS, Android and Windows, where you could pick up some inspiration.
Like this one, for example - https://touchinnovations.com/products/emulator-2/
Thanks, it's not really a matter of inspiration, it's the limitation of the touch screen itself.

It simply is not a sufficiently tactile replacement for knobs. sliders, switches, etc.
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:08 PM   #56
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Take a look at Midi Designer. The author claims that this overlay appoach is patented by him, but I agree, that it lets user to operate controls more easily.



http://mididesigner.com/home/features/
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:11 AM   #57
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pat pending... I suspect he will have a rough ride trying to get a patent on such a use of existing tech, but....Could have a fair bit of potential

Cant help wondering if we are maybe trying to crack a walnut with a sledgehammer here though.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:50 AM   #58
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Take a look at Midi Designer. The author claims that this overlay appoach is patented by him, but I agree, that it lets user to operate controls more easily.



http://mididesigner.com/home/features/
Thanks for the input, but as I said in my previous post, it's not a matter of inspiration.

I already have the GUI design in mind.

The issue is that, after playing around with the prototype for a bit, I am convinced a multitouch UI is NOT a sufficient replacement for a tactile knob.

Too bad, I was hoping it would work out better than it did.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:32 AM   #59
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Since most of these things have stereo sound anyway, is there any way to simulate tactile feedback with vibration left and vibration right, vibration up and vibration down?

Feel a song coming on....

In any case, whatever solution anyone comes up with IS always going to be a compromise till we can extrude a knob out of the screen.
In the meantime, no impetus for at least coming up with a decent workable compromise here, Jeff?
After all, we do already use the exact same feedbackless system... only we crank those "knobs" with a mouse or other pointing device...
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:13 AM   #60
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Since most of these things have stereo sound anyway, is there any way to simulate tactile feedback with vibration left and vibration right, vibration up and vibration down?

Feel a song coming on....

In any case, whatever solution anyone comes up with IS always going to be a compromise till we can extrude a knob out of the screen.
In the meantime, no impetus for at least coming up with a decent workable compromise here, Jeff?
After all, we do already use the exact same feedbackless system... only we crank those "knobs" with a mouse or other pointing device...
Yeah, the question is whether or not it is worth putting development time into something that is proprietary (iPad/iPhone) and then have to support a separate code base for Android, MS surface etc.

In my mind the prototype proves the returns for all that effort are just not there... yet
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:40 AM   #61
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Having been on the sharp end of this in the field of scientific instrument developmrnt years ago, yeah - see your point.
Wishful thinking on my part at this stage I guess.
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:13 PM   #62
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I've been working on a HUI interface that uses a Leapmotion controller, and just recently switched from Pro Tools to Reaper, where the HUI support is rather sparse. I'd love this to work fully with Reaper, but maybe it's time to reinvent this thing in OSC or something for greater compatibility. Maybe it would be interesting to some here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md6w...1d5yi4tayvrg25

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Old 02-09-2017, 08:38 PM   #63
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Actually, extruding a knob out of the screen is the ideal way to get tactile feedback.

Imagine an aluminum knob (conductive), that sits on a small suction cup pivot (easy to reposition), and moves a small conductive plastic wiper (like on the ends of touchscreen stylus's) across the screen in an arc.

Something like this:
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2010/05/13/cl...or-the-iphone/

or this:

http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2015/04/review-tuna-knobs/

Cheers

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Old 02-10-2017, 03:01 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter View Post
Actually, extruding a knob out of the screen is the ideal way to get tactile feedback.

Imagine an aluminum knob (conductive), that sits on a small suction cup pivot (easy to reposition), and moves a small conductive plastic wiper (like on the ends of touchscreen stylus's) across the screen in an arc.

Something like this:
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2010/05/13/cl...or-the-iphone/

or this:

http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2015/04/review-tuna-knobs/

Cheers

Kris
Yes, but it doesn't solve the problem of the tremendously varied GUI's of the plugins, that's the real issue here.

You would have to reconfigure (move knobs around) each time you opened a different plugin.

Very interesting challenge this one...
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:07 AM   #65
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If you want a solution that works for all GUI's, I'd switch to a fader...it's a better fit for a touch screen.

How about Touch-down on the knob, hold for 1 second, and a mask appears over it...swipe the mask left or right and that parameter is assigned to either a vertical left-side or right side fader. 2 fader control makes sense since in an knob paradigm you can only twist 2 knobs at a time.

Just a thought...

Cheers

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Old 02-10-2017, 03:45 PM   #66
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I think this idea of reproducing every possible parameter on a mirrored touch-screen, or assigning loads of faders or pots to parameters is a lot of work for the programmer and yields little benefit for the user. As has been mentioned before, people are generally going to tweak at most 2 parameters simultaneously, and the most important factors there are that the controls are easy and accurate.

That's why I've been trying this approach of abandoning any sort of physical or visual recreation of these parameter controllers. Rather, by simply reaching out my hand into space in front of me and grabbing anywhere I want, that becomes my reference point for the parameter modulation, and by moving my hands about somewhat like a conductor I can adjust these parameters, without worrying that I'm grabbing the right nob, or that my finger is still on the fader on a touchscreen. The idea is that the last touched parameter in the DAW is what I'm controlling in space.

I realize this is a silly idea to people that are very accustomed to working on motorized faders, but we're thinking forward here right?
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:18 PM   #67
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I think this idea of reproducing every possible parameter on a mirrored touch-screen, or assigning loads of faders or pots to parameters is a lot of work for the programmer and yields little benefit for the user. As has been mentioned before, people are generally going to tweak at most 2 parameters simultaneously, and the most important factors there are that the controls are easy and accurate.

That's why I've been trying this approach of abandoning any sort of physical or visual recreation of these parameter controllers. Rather, by simply reaching out my hand into space in front of me and grabbing anywhere I want, that becomes my reference point for the parameter modulation, and by moving my hands about somewhat like a conductor I can adjust these parameters, without worrying that I'm grabbing the right nob, or that my finger is still on the fader on a touchscreen. The idea is that the last touched parameter in the DAW is what I'm controlling in space.

I realize this is a silly idea to people that are very accustomed to working on motorized faders, but we're thinking forward here right?
Very cool idea, but for me arm fatigue would limit the amount of time I could productively use something like that. Too much hovering...
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:08 AM   #68
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Bitwig supports event-based javascript along with a "cursor based object model" (read: context sensetive API).

This has allowed me to easily integrate my Arturia keylab 88 in ways that I'm simply unable to achieve in Reaper.

A simple "lua script" control surface plugin for reaper would be a great start. An event based api, where the script could listen for actions in reaper would be super.

I prefer using reaper to bitwig, but the bitwig boys definitely got it right on their controller api. Hopefully something similar will be developed for reaper?
I havent studied the reaper api in depth mpre than i neede for some hacks, but Nektartech has a quite rich integration via their Panorama line of products. Is the issue more how accesible it is? Also, one wonders if DAWs couldnt get their collective minds together and standardize some interaction points like for instance how to interface with plugins. Find a common language and syntax. In my private reenigeering of Nektars Panorama code for bitwig I desvrube plugon maps as json blobs... Something like that should really be standardized.

...

Anyway, I'd also to like to share a view that is often overlooked when it comes to parameter control; synth sound design. Here immidiate accesibility and familiarity with layout is essential to make the workflow tick.

With something like the Panorama or my AKAI Advance im almost there, but there is always limits imposed by the manufacturer willingly or not. And going all diy is just too much time.

...

As for daw control, I find the various ways to configure Reapers channels get in the way sometimes - arm, monitor, automation modes, input selection etc. I have to reach for the mouse/touchpad anyway (template tracks help).

Reapers routing is also one of the big selling points for me. (Unfortunately its poorly visualized in the daw interface). Having external control over it would great.

...

In closing I would advise to strive to make building custom external controllers more approachable, be it better apis, better mcu sjpport or exotic things like new standards rather than trying to figure out exactly how your phone fits into this
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:56 AM   #69
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In closing I would advise to strive to make building custom external controllers more approachable, be it better apis, better mcu sjpport or exotic things like new standards rather than trying to figure out exactly how your phone fits into this
Yes, absolutely agree, that was a sidebar experiment to see if we could solve the challenging problem of the tremendously varied plugin GUI's.

It didn't work out, such is the nature of R&D.

Now on to the work of making it easier to integrate control surfaces with Reaper.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:03 PM   #70
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I've been working with my MCU and 3 extenders for 10 years.
I think to find a way to make the whole thing customizable would solve a lot of things

I find a lot of buttons on my mcu are useless to my workflow and it would be great if I could repurposed them
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:18 AM   #71
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Hi Geoff, Im really interested to see how this develops, thanks for taking this on.

Im currently using Klinkes MCU plugin to run my iCon Qcon Pro (which is set in reaper mode), but one of the things that bothers me the most is that I cant customise what the buttons do in Reaper (eg make the Markers buttons run custom Action in Reaper instead of jumping to markers, which I never use), and since Klinke made his plugin for the MCU units it doesnt work the same on my Qcon Pro.

How likely will it be that your project will support more customisation of csurface button functionality? Ideally with a menu/dialogue that I can open with the mouse/keyboard from a menu somewhere, and not dependent on having a certain type of hardware controller set in a specific configuration
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:07 AM   #72
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Hi Geoff, Im really interested to see how this develops, thanks for taking this on.

Im currently using Klinkes MCU plugin to run my iCon Qcon Pro (which is set in reaper mode), but one of the things that bothers me the most is that I cant customise what the buttons do in Reaper (eg make the Markers buttons run custom Action in Reaper instead of jumping to markers, which I never use), and since Klinke made his plugin for the MCU units it doesnt work the same on my Qcon Pro.

How likely will it be that your project will support more customisation of csurface button functionality? Ideally with a menu/dialogue that I can open with the mouse/keyboard from a menu somewhere, and not dependent on having a certain type of hardware controller set in a specific configuration
100% likely

This is exactly what we are building !
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:10 AM   #73
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100% likely

This is exactly what we are building !
Oh man you have no idea how happy I am to hear this

Thank you!

Ps is there somewhere I can donate?
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:40 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewjumpsoffbuildings View Post
Oh man you have no idea how happy I am to hear this

Thank you!

Ps is there somewhere I can donate?
It's going to be a while, so you'll have to be patient.

We may set up donations later, not sure yet.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:50 AM   #75
matthewjumpsoffbuildings
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Ok cool, definitely keeping an eye on this thread... will be happy to donate when thats an option

Do you have a rough estimate of how long it will take to get an alpha to test? Understand thats not an easy thing to estimate accurately, just a rough idea would be awesome
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:24 PM   #76
lexaproductions
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Count me in on the donations. I'd willing to donate quite a few $$$ for this to happen.
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:28 AM   #77
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I'd certainly donate if this were to be useful to my workflows. $50, $100. It depends, but good tools are worth good money to me.

Geoff, my current setup has the MCU for its faders at its center, but most of my work is in fact done with other controllers.

2 Midi Fighter Twister knob banks(4x4 x 4 banks each), an X-Touch Mini (2 layers and I use this script, 1 per button, to select banks on the two Twisters.

So far, none of these devices reflect the state of parameters they control. Bummer.

For the MCU I am most certainly after controlling send levels with the faders, creating my own custom map of parameters for selected tracks and doing stuff with the buttons, because I use almost none of them on the MCU with Reapers stock MCU control surface plugin.
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Old 03-08-2017, 07:36 AM   #78
matthewjumpsoffbuildings
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Id also be glad to donate at least $100 for something that makes my iCon Qcon pro integrate properly with reaper and customisable so I can override default behavior of buttons/trigger custom actions etc.

Maybe look into a patreon/gofundme/kickstarter etc? Some kind of crowdfunding thing?
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:01 AM   #79
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I'll be glad to donate.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:52 PM   #80
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Absolutely, count me in. I'm using Geoff eucon configuration with my Avid Artist Mix and transport but I would like to use it deeper and deeper
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