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Old 11-20-2016, 02:40 PM   #1
juliansader
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Default MIDI editor: "Erase event" mouse modifier does not work in velocity lane

In the velocity lane, some of the mouse modifiers for the "MIDI CC event" context appear to be overridden by the corresponding modifiers for the "MIDI note" context:

For example, in the "MIDI CC event" context, the default mouse modifier for Erase event is Alt + leftclick/drag. In the velocity lane however, this mouse modifier instead changes the note velocities, which is the corresponding Alt+leftdrag action in the "MIDI note" context.

In fact, the Erase event action does not appear to work in the velocity lane at all, neither in the "CC event" nor in the "CC lane" context, and no matter with which mouse modifier combination it is linked to.
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:41 AM   #2
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Curiously, in the MIDI note context, Alt-leftdrag can be linked to something other than "Edit note velocity", and it will run that other action.

In the velocity lane, however, Alt-leftdrag remains hard-coded to "Edit velocity", even when the mouse modifier has been linked to something else in both the MIDI note and CC event contexts.
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Old 05-28-2019, 01:33 PM   #3
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""Erase event" mouse modifier does not work in velocity lane"


same problem here...

2 years later o.0
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:36 PM   #4
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not the first time I ask for this:

please fix this - > when using the eraser at the velocity lane it should reset to default volume.

I know that it is not a bug but it feels like a bug and really kill intuitiveness.
this is a basic feature for all piano rolls/ midi editors I know.

currently it does nothing, please fix

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Old 10-01-2019, 11:35 PM   #5
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Velocity and volume are not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by robgb View Post
Next question: Is there any way to get rid of the highlighting of a section when the node is selected? I find it very distracting.
No.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Velocity and volume are not the same thing..
Does it matter ?
adjusting the velocity usually control the vol.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
Does it matter ?
adjusting the velocity usually control the vol.
Velocity is basically a modulator used on volume and doesn't usually have a regular default. However, you can create a custom action to set the velocity at any level you deem to be default. Also there are some scripts that will set the velocity at a certain level and they are better then the custom actions.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
Does it matter ?
adjusting the velocity usually control the vol.
If you play on a Fender Rhodes electric piano VSTi you will hear it's not the same.
Playing with a velocity of 50, you will have a soft, round sound. The sound will become harder as your velocity increases.
By adjusting the volume, you will have the same sound regarding the velocity. It just becomes louder or weaker.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:39 AM   #9
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I know this. I wrote volume while I meant level...but it doesn't matter.
the main subject for me is that adjusting the velocity is very very very sticky and very not intuative.
eraser is such a basic tool to reset the level of velocity and it just doesn't work here.
there are more sticky issues in the piano roll. but this completely destroy the flow for me, not intuative at all.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:13 AM   #10
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I’m not sure if I’d really like the eraser to reset the velocity. Resetting the velocity to a default value would not make much sense, when using different instruments. A value of 100 for example would give very different results across different instruments.
I would rather expect the eraser to delete a note.

However, for your use case, I would request a script. That seems perfectly doable.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:45 AM   #11
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Sounds good as optional I think.
Eraser erases, so erases whatever events it overs. Seems very natural.

Maybe also, and maybe ridiculous, but cc default value per per track / per item could make sense?

Something like:
default global value in preferences

And per track or item or cc lane propertie: set as default value

Being the default value set 1st by: cc lane (or number?), 2nd by item, 3rd by track, 4th by project/global setting

Last edited by deeb; 10-02-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
I know this. I wrote volume while I meant level...but it doesn't matter.
the main subject for me is that adjusting the velocity is very very very sticky and very not intuative.
eraser is such a basic tool to reset the level of velocity and it just doesn't work here.
there are more sticky issues in the piano roll. but this completely destroy the flow for me, not intuative at all.
Here's a script Reflected that will set the velocity of a selected note(s) to the number you set it for. Check out the code
where it says "vel = 64", just set that number to what ever you call default velocity, then tie a shortcut key to it.

You can ether DL the script here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/37244/Set%20...0%28064%29.eel

Or copy this code and save it as an EEL script:
Code:
take = MIDIEditor_GetTake(MIDIEditor_GetActive()); // GET TAKE IN MIDI EDITOR
MIDI_CountEvts(take, notes, ccs, sysex);// COUNT MIDI NOTES
j = 0; // INIT
loop(notes, // EXECUTE THE ACTION BASED ON NUMBER OF NOTES
	MIDI_GetNote(take, j, sel, muted, start, end, chan, pitch, vel); // GET NOTE J
	sel == 1 ? ( // IF NOTE IS SELECTED
		vel = 64; // Optionnal calc based en vel
		MIDI_SetNote(take, j, sel, muted, start, end, chan, pitch, vel); // SET NOTE J
	); // END IF NOTE IS SELECTED
	j += 1; // INCREMENT
); // END OF LOOP
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:20 AM   #13
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Guys,

We already have scripts that will set a CC or a velocity to a set value. Using the Eraser tool to do this (very unusual) or asking the Devs to rework CC value prefs for every tracks is (IMHO) just taking away precious developer time for adding something that is already there.

Simply do a search for "Set Velocity" or "Set CC" ....

Here are 3 solutions already:
Script: mpl_Set selected CC.eel

Script: me2beats_Set velocity for selected notes.lua

Script: X-Raym_Set selected notes velocity to 100.eel
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Last edited by Thonex; 10-02-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Guys,

We already have scripts that will set a CC or a velocity to a set value. Using the Eraser tool to do this (very unusual) or asking the Devs to rework CC value prefs for every tracks is (IMHO) just taking away precious developer time for adding something that is already there.
[/indent][/b]
that could be a sign that development time probably wouldnt be that much.
And also, if useful (as it seems), being native will be much better workflow and on the package for all users as default IMHO too
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:34 AM   #15
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I really don’t see that as a must have feature. There is so much other stuff that would need more attention before that.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
that could be a sign that development time probably wouldnt be that much.
And also, if useful (as it seems), being native will be much better workflow and on the package for all users as default IMHO too
So help me understand, you'd have a Default CC setting preference for every CC type (over a 100 of them) and also per track? Just so when you use an eraser it would set the point to that default value instead of actually erasing a point? How would you then erase a CC point. This all seems much more confusing and I'm not sure it's solving anything but rather complicating things immensely. No?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I really don’t see that as a must have feature. There is so much other stuff that would need more attention before that.
Is not highest priority for me either, but maybe is for the poster and also is apparently not a high time demanding feature. Still I think maybe you agree that not all the features being developed are hight priorities for each one of us.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
So help me understand, you'd have a Default CC setting preference for every CC type (over a 100 of them) and also per track? Just so when you use an eraser it would set the point to that default value instead of actually erasing a point? How would you then erase a CC point. This all seems much more confusing and I'm not sure it's solving anything but rather complicating things immensely. No?
I am just brain storming!
CC would have a default global value which by using eraser would set.
On a global level also each cc could have a different default level.

If then user sets on a track level a default new value for a spefic cc, this would be the value to which eraser would update on this cc.
Same on item level (specific item) on a specific lane level.

"How would you erase" - if no default value is defined at any level (global, track,item) it would just erase

"Is it more complicating then solving,yes/no?" I am not sure! Maybe yes , maybe not !

Last edited by deeb; 10-02-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:56 AM   #19
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An eraser should erase. Not change. Not move. Erase.

So, if you are using the eraser, it should either erase the event, or the cc point/range.

It should NOT add a different point with a different value. Let's try and stick to established norms here and not confuse things by making erase something other than erase.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I am just brain storming!
CC would have a default global value which by using eraser would set.
On a global level also each cc could have a different default level.

If then user sets on a track level a default new value for a spefic cc, this would be the value to which eraser would update on this cc.
Same on item level (specific item) on a specific lane level.
This type of case usage is exactly what actions are for... and a single action as far as I can tell. And I dare say would be more efficient without confusing the issue. But hey... if the devs find value in the FR... then great!
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
An eraser should erase. Not change. Not move. Erase.

So, if you are using the eraser, it should either erase the event, or the cc point/range.

It should NOT add a different point with a different value. Let's try and stick to established norms here and not confuse things by making erase something other than erase.
I see what you mean , and makes sense, but in that case you would not change anything and continue working like you are.

Anyway .. I was just brainstorming ! thanks all ! It would have to be too complex to be useful I guess
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
An eraser should erase. Not change. Not move. Erase.

So, if you are using the eraser, it should either erase the event, or the cc point/range.

It should NOT add a different point with a different value. Let's try and stick to established norms here and not confuse things by making erase something other than erase.
Totally agreed.
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Old 10-03-2019, 03:40 AM   #23
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seriously guys

more 20 years of music creating and I've tested all DAWs, Cubase, Logic, FLstudio, Sonar, Protools, studio one....and at least 10 (mostly cubase, logic and FLstudio)...and these days FLstudio and Reaper only.
I have enough experience to assume what will improve the workflow for 90% of the users and not only for me.

currently, the eraser tool does NOTHING on the velocity lane. so...
When it comes to erase edits means to erase the editings that you just did and get BACK TO DEFAULT.

I'm not inventing the wheel, many known powerful DAWs with tons of experience and testings use this feature after lots of thoughts it works perfectly so why not learn?!

just like you wouldn't want to add notes with 0 velocity and then adjusting the velocity, so the ereaser shouldn't erase the velocity to 0, but to a default velocity (if you want to be picky, so the default vel can be something that the user will set in the options or by a script)

piano roll is one of the most important feature in a DAW these days, and reaper is stuck there and the improvements are really slow and don't help the workflow which very sad, because the workflow is the most important thing when creating music.


for the guys with the scripts ideas, i already tried scripts like these before and found them to be useless for workflow. the basic workflow for the velocity lane should be write(change) / erase(reset) simple and work! 2 buttons.

Last edited by Reflected; 10-03-2019 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:22 AM   #24
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Eraser in velocity lane should NOT change the velocity value at all. It should remove the event completely. Klangfarben is correct.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Eraser in velocity lane should NOT change the velocity value at all. It should remove the event completely. Klangfarben is correct.
And that's because?

why would you remove the whole event from a lane?! if sometimes you can't even see which note playing the specific event from the lane itself.

if the name "eraser" is the issue, so lets call it/consider it "reset tool" option for right click.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:54 AM   #26
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I'm 100% sure that I can create beats and melodies in FLstudio's piano roll faster than you will ever create in reaper, and that's not because I'm faster, but because the flow of the program.
now that's not a competition, but when you try things and create new ideas and sketches, you don't want to wash time messing with sticky tools.

I was testing it with 3 friends, creating the same beat and melody + velocity changes with the same samples and the same vsts.
I consider myself pretty fast producer in both reaper and flstudio, yet the speed at fl studio is 3 times faster at least!
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Guys,

We already have scripts that will set a CC or a velocity to a set value. Using the Eraser tool to do this (very unusual) or asking the Devs to rework CC value prefs for every tracks is (IMHO) just taking away precious developer time for adding something that is already there.

Simply do a search for "Set Velocity" or "Set CC" ....

Here are 3 solutions already:
Script: mpl_Set selected CC.eel

Script: me2beats_Set velocity for selected notes.lua

Script: X-Raym_Set selected notes velocity to 100.eel

if Justin/schwa will be nice and allow to use such scripts for mouse clicks at the mouse modifiers, that will be perfect, I don't know why is the limitation over there.

Last edited by Reflected; 10-03-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:40 AM   #28
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still no love for midi users. :/
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Old 10-03-2019, 01:43 PM   #29
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I want a superb midi editor, not just an ok working midi editor.
I need to write down my ideas as fast as possible and try them without losing so much time, because most of time the first idea is not the best one and you want to start over again, and if it's not a fast and fun tool, you will most likely compromise eventually due to the time it costs to change things on the flow.

even a simple hi hat pattern can cost precious time when your tools are not as good. I need an awesome midi editor, not just an OK midi editor.

take a look how quick I can control flstudio and thats when I use it only once in 1 week or so (because I try to stick to one DAW - reaper)...flstudio's pianoroll is so intuitive that by the usual ctrl/shift/alt keys+mouse combinations I can control the events in a perfect way for everything I will ever need from a pianoroll to do for me and the fastest.

alt + left drag - reset to defaut.
shift + left drag - drag the whole events to the same velocity level (like choosing on the flow the "default" velocity). super useful!
right click drag - make a ramp
Single left click - change the events as naturally expected.
everything just flow...

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Old 10-03-2019, 01:53 PM   #30
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I think I can see your dilemma. We already brought that up: I vote for a "velocity mouse modifier" section detached from the CC lane mouse modifier. This would solve a lot of problems.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I think I can see your dilemma. We already brought that up: I vote for a "velocity mouse modifier" section detached from the CC lane mouse modifier. This would solve a lot of problems.
Yes, I think I've mentioned this as well. CC Lanes and Velocity Lane really should have different mouse modifiers. They are two very different animals and should be treated as such.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:48 PM   #32
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Different mouse modifiers is the least worst option ... I would say. I do understand Reflected too (now).
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:15 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
I think I can see your dilemma. We already brought that up: I vote for a "velocity mouse modifier" section detached from the CC lane mouse modifier. This would solve a lot of problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
Yes, I think I've mentioned this as well. CC Lanes and Velocity Lane really should have different mouse modifiers. They are two very different animals and should be treated as such.
I noticed this the other day too when I was checking the mods after reading this thread. I guess I'd never thought about it before. So here's another vote for separate velocity mouse modulators...

Something else I'd like to see is the ability to apply actions, custom actions, and scripts to all the mouse modifiers. We already have it on some but not all, and there may be some where it simply is un-applicable.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Something else I'd like to see is the ability to apply actions, custom actions, and scripts to all the mouse modifiers. We already have it on some but not all, and there may be some where it simply is un-applicable.
Yes, absolutely agree with this. Both for consistency sake as well as solving some of the issues brought up above.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:47 PM   #35
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Yep, I’m all for it!
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Old 10-04-2019, 02:43 PM   #36
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It makes me happy that all of you see how powerful it can be..
But after 10 years and no luck.

I can only assume that the devs don't use the midi editor so much, or that they don't have enough knowledge & experience with other piano rolls so they don't know the difference and how good and pay-full an awesome piano roll can be.

Please justin/schwa, "say something I'm giving up on you"

I will to pay extra money to have such a perfect piano roll in reaper, it just worth the money. + I'm sure that it will attract much more users + better reviews and so on...
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:54 AM   #37
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I don't really get why velocity would the only exception , can anyone tell me? What makes it completely with unique needs?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:09 AM   #38
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The velocity lane is special, since it refers to notes rather than CCs. For example, it doesn't make use of envelope curves, but can display note lengths.

Nevertheless, I agree that Alt+drag deletion should delete notes in the velocity lane's "CC lane" context too, consistent with other CC lanes -- and the piano roll.

Alt+click/drag *on* velocity nodes is another question, though: By default, alt+click/drag works very differently on "MIDI notes" than on "CC events": Select note/Edit velocity vs Erase CC event. Which of these would be most appropriate for a velocity lollipop?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:42 AM   #39
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maybe option: "when deleting velocity includes associated note" == {true or false) could work?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
maybe option: "when deleting velocity includes associated note" == {true or false) could work?
Several mouse modifiers already offer multiple alternative options (such as snap / ignore selection / also select time / etc), so the "Erase" mouse modifier can probably offer options too.
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