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03-05-2017, 05:51 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
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Working With ReaSamplOmatic5000
I recently started making my own drum samples.
And right now I'm triggering them with ReaSamplOmatic5000.
I really like this plugin for its view and flexibility.
But one thing that I find missing is making it play the loaded samples randomly.
For example, I load in 5 hits of the same kick drum, I want it to play them randomly.
An even better feature would be "smart random" where it doesn't allow to play the exact sample twice in a row.
I found the JS plugin that someone made that fixed this problem, but I'm looking for a simpler solution, and maybe even one that has "smart random".
Am I missing something?
Thanks!
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03-06-2017, 04:14 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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I miss this feature as well. Can you post the JS plugin you mentioned?
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03-09-2017, 06:51 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Reasamplomatic5000 has round-robin, but it is very unintuitive to get started with. I tried and failed to get a thread going about Reasamplomatic over here, but there is a patch there which demonstrates round-robin in use: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...amplomatic5000
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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03-09-2017, 11:24 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Revisiting an old thread in the prelease section on Reasamplomatic5000 (rs5k), Justin and Schwa gave some info on how rs5k's probability-based round-robin works. Search thread titles there for 'reasamplomatic'.
To back up for a second, round-robin as pertains to playing samples is a scheme for playing each of a group of samples equally. So if you have samples A, B, and C, when sending MIDI notes to the sample player, sample A will play upon the first note, sample B on the next, then sample C. On the next note, sample A plays again, then B, then C... So the playback of the samples works in a circular fashion.
Rs5k isn't as simple as that, though. And the chances of using it and figuring it out on your own are pretty slim. The way I see it, there are three aspects to it:
1. Each sample in a round-robin rotation must be loaded into it's own instance of rs5k. So if you want to rotate between four samples, you will need four instances of rs5k.
2. Unless directed NOT to do so, rs5k will pass MIDI down the chain to other instances of rs5k.
3. Rs5k uses a probability scheme for sample rotation, which will be explained shortly.
So to get a handle on how it works, let's start with a single instance of rs5k. Create an instance and load a sample. Check the box that says 'round-robin' toward the bottom of the window. With only a single instance loaded and the probably set to 100, you won't notice anything happening. So set the probability to 50. You should notice that now rs5k only plays a sample 50% of the time that it receives a MIDI note. If you set the probability to 33, rs5k will playback a sample 33% of the time that it receives a note. Set it to 25, and it will play 25% of the time.
Now add a new instance of rs5k below the current instance, and load up a new sample. Notice that the first instance plays 50% of the time, but the second instance plays 100% of the time. And 50% of the time, both instances are playing at the same time. What is happening here is that by default, rs5k passes all MIDI notes that it receives down the chain to the next plugin.
This brings us to the option labeled 'remove played notes from fx chain MIDI stream', which is next to 'round-robin' in the window. Check it in the first instance, and try playing some notes. Notice now that only one instance plays at a time. What happens here is that with the option to 'remove played notes...' checked, rs5k no longer passes the notes that it actually uses. All others are passed. To further demonstrate this, set the first instance to a 25% probability. Now, the first instance of rs5k will play it's sample 25% of the time, and it will eat that note (not pass it along down the fx chain). So the second instance will play any time that the first instance isn't playing.
Now we get to the probability aspect. For a single instance of rs5k, with 'round-robin' checked, the loaded sample will play according to it's probability setting. If set to 100, it will play 100% of the time. If set to 25, it will play 25% of the time. And with 'remove played notes...' checked, only those notes which rs5k doesn't use will be passed on. So if the first instance is set to 25% probability, it will play 25% of the time, and the rest of the time it will pass the incoming MIDI note down the chain. So if the second instance is set to 100%, it will play every time that it receives a note (when a note is actually passed to it from the first instance).
And now the probability thing might get confusing if you haven't read and understood this post up to this point.
For the following examples, turn on 'round-robin' and turn on 'remove played notes...' for all but the last instance. There is nothing in the chain after the last instance, so 'round-robin' and 'remove played notes...' will not affect anything at that point. But if you don't want to think about it too much, you can turn on both options for all instances.
For rotating between two samples:
1st instance, probability 50.
2nd instance, probability 100.
For rotating between three samples:
1st instance, probability 33.
2nd instance, probability 50.
3rd instance, probability 100.
For rotating between four samples:
1st instance, probability 25.
2nd instance, probability 33.
3rd instance, probability 50.
4th instance, probability 100.
And so on...
But if that isn't clear yet, let's step through the examples.
For rotating between two samples, the first instance plays 50% of the time, and the second instance catches all unused notes and plays 100% of the time (of the time that it actually catches a note).
For rotating between three samples, the first instance plays 33% of the time, and the second instance catches all unused notes. The second instance is set to play 50% of the time (50% of the time that it actually catches a note). And the third instance is set to play 100% of the time that it catches unused notes from the second instance.
For rotating between four samples, the first instance plays 25% of the time, passing unsused notes to the second instance...which plays 33% of the time that it actually catches a note...which passes unused notes to the third instance...which plays 50% of the time that it actually catches a note...which passes unused notes to the fourth instance...which plays 100% of the time that it actually catches a note.
A bit long-winded, but that is probably about as clear as I can explain rs5k's unintuitive way of implementing round-robin. On the plus side (I guess), rs5k's round-robin implementation is flexible. But I don't see a practical use for the flexibility, especially above having an intuitive round-robin implementation.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
Last edited by brainwreck; 03-09-2017 at 11:35 PM.
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03-10-2017, 06:38 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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I was going to suggest to put this into the manual, when I actually found it is already there - section 16.17 Round-Robin Multisampling.
This whole affair is a clear example of a software made by a sole programmer's frame of mind. The whole aspect of usability for users is ommited and the software suffers because very few people are using it. I believe if Cockos would hire a UX/UI designer, it would up the software greatly. It is one thing holding the growth back.
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03-10-2017, 08:02 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,369
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hmm.. flexibity:
here i used the propability feature in reasamplomatic to get a kind of random drummer
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/30111/samplomania.zip
Last edited by bobobo; 03-10-2017 at 08:33 AM.
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03-10-2017, 09:21 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
I was going to suggest to put this into the manual, when I actually found it is already there - section 16.17 Round-Robin Multisampling.
This whole affair is a clear example of a software made by a sole programmer's frame of mind. The whole aspect of usability for users is ommited and the software suffers because very few people are using it. I believe if Cockos would hire a UX/UI designer, it would up the software greatly. It is one thing holding the growth back.
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I didn't know that round-robin was covered in the manual. I learned to use it from Justin and Schwa's explanations in a thread in the prerelease section of the forum. Taking a look in version 5.33 of the manual, round-robin is in section 17.19, but I think that section leans toward brevity over clarity.
On usability, I think that in this particular case, it isn't an issue of the interface. The unintuitiveness is in the chosen round-robin scheme, preferring flexibility over ease of use. Whether that is a good or bad thing is up to who is using it. For myself, a simple counter style round-robin implementation would have been fine. But maybe both could have been had.
In the chosen implementation, separate instances are used for each member of the round-robin group. Tabs would have been nice here (maybe there are difficulties with doing that). So each set of samples of a member would get a new tab. *This part is an interface decision*
And for each member of a group (each tab), a rotation number would be given for the member's position in the rotation. So if you have members A, B, and C, you could set the round-robin rotation as 1, 2, and 3, respectively, or whatever you like...3, 2, 1; 2, 3, 1; 1, 1, 1... Or you could set the group for random.
From that point, if you want more flexibility, the implementation could allow for multiple rotation numbers per member. So with samples A, B, and C, you could do something like: member A - 1, 2, 3; member B - 4; member C - 5.
In practice, this would look more like:
Code:
Snare group [rs5k instance]
member A (16 samples for velocity) [tab]
member B (16 samples for velocity) [tab]
member C (16 samples for velocity) [tab]
And for a simple counter style rotation...
Quote:
member A rotation position: 1
member B rotation position: 2
member C rotation position: 3
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Or for layering...
Quote:
member A rotation position: 1
member B rotation position: 2
member C rotation position: 3
member D rotation position: 1
member E rotaiton position: 2
member F rotation position: 3
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Or for random...
Quote:
member A rotation position: random
member B rotation position: random
member C rotation position: random
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Or for higher playback occurrence...
Quote:
member A rotation position: 1, 2, 3
member B rotation position: 4
member C rotation position: 5
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And none of this has even gotten into the rs5k velocity implementation.
Side note: It would be great if forum software had a button for setting posts as side discussion to the main topic.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
Last edited by brainwreck; 03-10-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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03-10-2017, 12:29 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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I think once you understand how the RR works in RS5K, it's not too bad. However, I think RS5K itself could certainly use some love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo
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I DLed this bobo, but not sure I understand. How do you get random out of one sample?
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03-10-2017, 07:50 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,369
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no , not random out of one sample.
i used the roundrobin feature to play a sample set , playing with
the propability and the 'remove played note..' of each you can
change the rythmic result.
you can use the param modulation at any param of any RS5K to make it more random of course
Last edited by bobobo; 03-10-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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09-27-2017, 09:04 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 569
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Can someone make a video about this?
I have 20 samples of a tambourine that I loaded in RSM5K through the browse button (selecting all 20 files) and can't get it to play any of them other than the top wav file loaded.
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09-27-2017, 01:00 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangler
Can someone make a video about this?
I have 20 samples of a tambourine that I loaded in RSM5K through the browse button (selecting all 20 files) and can't get it to play any of them other than the top wav file loaded.
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How are you loading the samples Rangler? Are you loading all 20 samples into one instance of RS5K or are you loading each sample into one instance of RS5K? This is important.
Here is a link that might help you understand a little better, and there's also a Round Robin chart that you can use for the probability.
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=210
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09-27-2017, 08:11 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 421
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Reaper could certainly benefit from a drum sampler a la Poize or Battery
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09-28-2017, 02:20 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 32
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+1
RS5K with keygroups, filter/env/mod per keygroup, 4 velocity layers. slice to midi/render to sampler track as in ableton&logic for tight integration. i would be reaper only
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
However, I think RS5K itself could certainly use some love.
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04-13-2020, 11:59 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
Revisiting an old thread in the prelease section on Reasamplomatic5000 (rs5k), Justin and Schwa gave some info on how rs5k's probability-based round-robin works. Search thread titles there for 'reasamplomatic'.
{SNIPPED out for length}
A bit long-winded, but that is probably about as clear as I can explain rs5k's unintuitive way of implementing round-robin. On the plus side (I guess), rs5k's round-robin implementation is flexible. But I don't see a practical use for the flexibility, especially above having an intuitive round-robin implementation.
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Thank you for this VERY well-worded explanation. This will actually be practical for those of us in sound effect design.
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09-22-2020, 09:04 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
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I think the sampler is really great for many things. the only thing which would be nice is to have a random mode so it´s not creating a pattern of the RR. But even in Kontakt you have the problem that it triggers the same sample twice in a row if you set to random mode. However it is possible to bypass it with a special script...So the best thing for multisamples would be a random mode where the same note is not triggerd twice in a row.
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