5.40 write automation not working properly (FIXED)

[ender7x77]

Hey!

Recently, I've been using write automation mode. Usually, I'd just manually automate. I would like to utilize the write automation mode more, however, it is not working properly. If I insert a plugin, set my parameters as desired, and then enable write automation mode, pre&post written automation has reaper reading the automation of a plugin at its default settings. So, all parameters that I have set for the plugin return to the developers default settings before and after automation had been written. Moreover, parameters continue to be set at default settings until each individual parameter is adjusted. Attached is an image to demonstrate the above. I have discovered that if I arm each parameter automation with my parameters set before enabling write automation and proceeding with playback/adjusting, then pre automation and written automation work correctly, however, post written automation returns to my initial set parameters. In cubase, simply clicking write automation mode writes your settings pre&post written automation with no issues. As a result, I can only assume the above is a bug.

Windows 7 Home Premium Version 6.17601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Reaper 5.40 64-bit
64bit plugins

[schwa]

Envelopes are always created with the default parameter value. If you want the current parameter value instead, use one of the "Automation: Write current values..." actions. Do a filter search in the actions window to see the list of relevant actions.

[airon]

I'm going to need a few more details to help, because I would not want to assume too much.

If you want to achieve something specific, just ask. Plenty of us do this a lot.


What are you trying to achieve ?

What control resources do you have ? Fader, knobs, mouse-only ?

How are your automation preferences set up ?
Here are mine ...

WRITE usually instantly starts writing all parameters that are both activated and armed when you hit play.

You can also start writing stuff when transport is stopped. That's the third dropdown from the bottom on the prefs page to control whether or not that happens.


If you want to write a static setting across a time selection, I recommend the Latch Preview mode. (see video link in my signature about that)

[ender7x77]

Hey,

So, I'm away from my computer @ present (@ work). It seems my issue is likely user error in not setting my preferences correctly. I've moved from Cubase. In Cubase, all I do is click W on the plugin to enable write mode and it automatically writes to my current settings and changes accordingly to my adjustments, and then continues the automation at my last set parameters during writing automation. I would like Reaper to do the same i.e. simply clicking write automation mode and having Reaper default at my current settings (not default settings) and then continuing with the adjusted parameter settings after written automation (so, not returning to default settings).

EDIT: I'll have to review my preference settings when I get home. Strangely, I never thought to check this, I guess because Cubase works so flawlessly with my workflow.

[airon]

You'll want to experiment with a visible envelope and all the available modes.

Kenny Goias videos on the subject matter will save you a lot of time too. See the Video link on the main Reaper page for those. They're free too.

[ender7x77]

Hey!

I still can't seem to get this working right. I've played with my preferences, and still think it means more to a bug issue. My automation preferences are at it's default state. Here's a video showcasing my issue: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgnobexqsp...40734.mp4?dl=0

[Gianfini]

Got to agree with ender, at least for the initial envelope value

Consider this: normally if you tweak an FX parameter (say Band1/Gain of an EQ set to +8db) and then ADD its envelope, the newly added env will start at +8db!

Now if you instead tweak the very same FX parameter to +8db, go in Write mode and start "writing" for example by rasing gain, it creates the envelope starting at 0db (default value) and then write from there on

I'd say this behavior is at least inconsistent. If - when adding an envelope - it takes the current parameter value, it should do so also when the envelope is created through WRITE

... then we all know there are tons of actions to adjust the things but then we're not anymore in the one-click domain

+1 to adjust this behavior from me too
g

[ender7x77]

Originally Posted by Gianfini

Got to agree with ender, at least for the initial envelope value

Consider this: normally if you tweak an FX parameter (say Band1/Gain of an EQ set to +8db) and then ADD its envelope, the newly added env will start at +8db!

Now if you instead tweak the very same FX parameter to +8db, go in Write mode and start "writing" for example by rasing gain, it creates the envelope starting at 0db (default value) and then write from there on

I'd say this behavior is at least inconsistent. If - when adding an envelope - it takes the current parameter value, it should do so also when the envelope is created through WRITE

... then we all know there are tons of actions to adjust the things but then we're not anymore in the one-click domain

+1 to adjust this behavior from me too
g

Thank you for articulating my issue much better than I. So, are you saying that this issue above is simply how reaper behaves with write automation. Just makes no sense to me why it would be like it is, as it really isn't useable

[airon]

I just tried what you talked about, and see what you mean.

@Schwa , @Justin

When new envelopes are created, they behave quite differently from Volume and Pan in a rather unpleasant way for some users here.

I routinely write a complete pass of a newly activated parameter across the entire session. It's safe.

But if you don't do that, if you just hit Latch and start twisting knobs, with the option Preferences / Automation / Automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes checked,

the new envelope starts at some kind of default behind the location the user first started writing data, not at the value the user had last set. That's what these users here expect.

Fellow users, you might want to get in to the habit of writing a complete pass with the Actively writing commands when activating a new parameter.

At least until Cockos decides to address this issue at some point.

[ender7x77]

Originally Posted by airon

I just tried what you talked about, and see what you mean.

@Schwa , @Justin

When new envelopes are created, they behave quite differently from Volume and Pan in a rather unpleasant way for some users here.

I routinely write a complete pass of a newly activated parameter across the entire session. It's safe.

But if you don't do that, if you just hit Latch and start twisting knobs, with the option Preferences / Automation / Automatically add envelopes when tweaking parameters in automation write modes checked,

the new envelope starts at some kind of default behind the location the user first started writing data, not at the value the user had last set. That's what these users here expect.

Fellow users, you might want to get in to the habit of writing a complete pass with the Actively writing commands when activating a new parameter.

At least until Cockos decides to address this issue at some point.

K, so to clarify, I must arm and set my values for automation prior to writing automation. Thus, not able to behave like Cubase. So, more a shortcoming of reaper rather than a bug.

@schwa - I apologise, I must have missed your post. I will try this and see if it gets me any closer.

[Gianfini]

Originally Posted by ender7x77

K, so to clarify, I must arm and set my values for automation prior to writing automation. Thus, not able to behave like Cubase. So, more a shortcoming of reaper rather than a bug.

@schwa - I apologise, I must have missed your post. I will try this and see if it gets me any closer.

Yes as an alternative you might just add the envelope first (and it get added at current parameter value) and THEN start writing/latching/whatever so that it doesn't get crated at the WRONG default value

@Devs: I think this is quite a usability quirk the I ask you please to address. IS SUM: When envelopes get automatically created during WRITE by adjusting a parameter, the envelope get created at Default level rather than current one

-----------------
Just an anectode that explain why this behavior is unwanted:
Yesterday I got in Write mode with FabFilter ProQ2 EQ, started touching a band at 1500hz and inadvertently moved not only the gain but also the frequency. A frequency envelope was created at the standard value of (ouch!) 300hz... so out of the interval where I adjusted the parameter all was set at 300HZ...

g

[airon]

Yeah, you'd need to run the action

Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to entire envelope

before creating any proper automation recordings. Kinda weird but what can you do.

That's probably a good option for the Automation preferences. Do that when the user triggers the creation of a new envelope. Establish the intended baseline.

[schwa]

This behavior should be improved in the next build.

[Gianfini]

Originally Posted by schwa

This behavior should be improved in the next build.

Thank you
g

[ender7x77]

Originally Posted by schwa

This behavior should be improved in the next build.

thank you as well.

[mccrabney]

Originally Posted by schwa

Envelopes are always created with the default parameter value.

can someone please explain why this should/must be the case, in the context of writing new envelopes?

__EDIT__
for those reading, you can track other posts on this issue here:

the most detailed post in tips/tricks: https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=252010
a bug report: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=273056
another bug report, from 2017: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=192204
a post in general: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254798
a feature request: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=251752
a "why is this happening" thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=190663
a post in newbieland: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=274395
__END__

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

can someone please explain why this should/must be the case, in the context of writing new envelopes?

Yes, some explanation is needed.

[tohubohu]

+1

[skylar_battles]

Maybe take fixed out of the title so this thread will get more attention!