Old 06-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #1
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Default Area Selection Showcase

ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.

...now throw Automation Items into this mess.

This is just the tiniest example of just how flawed the current duplication is in Reaper Again, Reaper destroys Ableton in a million other ways, but this is Such core functionality that is going to drive the new crop away immediately.

I just want Reaper to be the best it can be!!! This would get it 99% of the way there.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:36 AM   #2
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This did not really warrant a new thread...
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
This did not really warrant a new thread...
It warrants more than a new thread haha, but alrighty i'll move it!
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:22 PM   #4
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probably a new forum section too !
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Old 06-23-2017, 06:43 PM   #5
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It's not the same, but you can use a region to copy things intact. That's how I get around this anyway
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
It's not the same, but you can use a region to copy things intact. That's how I get around this anyway
Can you give a more detailed explanation (which actions you use etc.)?

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Old 06-23-2017, 08:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
Only for the tails of the sounds with long release (in adsR envelope). For example, bells, cymbals (not for closed hihats).
Still, it's quite bad.

Quote:
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
Not at all.
If it sends nothing or if it doesn't send that same nothing, there's no difference.
The send volume is not the volume of the FX (AUX) track. These are two separate things.

Quote:
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.
Oddly, actually you can copy such automation.
OR items (on other track(s)).
But not all this at once.

It looks like REAPER needs a proper marquee tool.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:39 AM   #8
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To broaden perspectives a little

In Pro Tools all seems to be copied right except for the 'itemless' automation, to copy which there's a dedicated command.
Edit
Actually, later it copied all at once. (What did I do wrong, I don't know.)




Last edited by AugerJ; 06-26-2017 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:37 AM   #9
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AugerJ: probably this should be copied to the "original thread:" http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146652

and thanks for the insight
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Old 06-24-2017, 11:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
AugerJ: probably this should be copied to the "original thread:" http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146652
t
You think, the developers 'listen' more closely to that one?
)

BTW, Logic Pro doesn't include the 'itemless' automation while copying all inside locators either*,
but Logic Pro has a dedicated instrument to select automation
and even can show you the automation points in the Event List
(for more precise editing, I guess).
__________________________________________________ ____________

* (edit) In Logic Pro: if you use the marquee tool to select
and then drag an 'item' to copy selection,
the whole bunch will be copied,
the 'itemless' automation included.

Last edited by AugerJ; 06-25-2017 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:02 AM   #11
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|Yeah - one of the things I found convenient and easy to use in Logic.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:16 AM   #12
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Turn off automation follow items, use selecting envelope points action before duplicating(instead copying)
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Old 06-25-2017, 04:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
Turn off automation follow items, use selecting envelope points action before duplicating(instead copying)
Can you be more specific:
which actions exactly in what order?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
Turn off automation follow items
Is it about this action:

Options: Envelope points move with media items ?
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:04 AM   #14
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The action "Item: Copy selected area of items" will copy all envelope points in the time selection, even points are in-between or outside items, as long as at least one item overlaps the time selection. (And of course if "Option: Envelope points move with items" is active.)
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:47 PM   #15
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I understand (and have discovered out of frustration) that there's some half-baked ways to achieve the same thing as proper area selection, but they aren't in any way a replacement - and are all riddled with their own quirks and errors. Especially with pasting automation points at edges, there's a 60% chance that the paste will either destroy the previous envelope point, or paste the new one incorrectly. It's just hard to justify when you look at other DAWs (and you can include Cubase and SONAR in that list along with Live) and this feature is as reliable as Copy/Paste in Microsoft Word.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:39 PM   #16
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I think that the FR in the thread Group Items for increased arrangement workflow would be a elegant solution to the problem discussed here.

An illustration from that thread:



Grouped items (and automation) would be treated as one item that can be copied, pasted, *looped*, or dragged.

Last edited by juliansader; 06-26-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I think that the FR in the thread Group Items for increased arrangement workflow would be a elegant solution to the problem discussed here.

An illustration from that thread:



Grouped items (and automation) would be treated as one item that can be copied, pasted, *looped*, or dragged.
If this will allow duplication/deletion by area, then this looks amazing.
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I think that the FR in the thread Group Items for increased arrangement workflow would be a elegant solution to the problem discussed here.

An illustration from that thread:
Grouped items (and automation) would be treated as one item that can be copied, pasted, *looped*, or dragged.
sorry but i don't think it has anything in common. I don't like the idea to have to group anything if i just want to copy something. Area select is for copying/move whatever area you select. And just that.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
sorry but i don't think it has anything in common. I don't like the idea to have to group anything if i just want to copy something. Area select is for copying/move whatever area you select. And just that.
Yeah, it will be easier to paste shorter than bar items every bar.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:43 PM   #20
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It is a must, why to not implement it if other programs do and people like it? Big +
Also selecting multiple automation lanes to copy and edit, it is ridicolous now and cause many unexpected editing bugs like on this gif with volune automation. This kind of things shows that devs do not testing some sections of program and workflow is unlogical for some of them, it is frustrating..

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Old 06-26-2017, 06:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
sorry but i don't think it has anything in common. I don't like the idea to have to group anything if i just want to copy something. Area select is for copying/move whatever area you select. And just that.
In Pro Tools you either have to group the tracks
or have to 'draw' the line (where to paste) through all of them.
And if you group them beforehand
it's enough to select the area on just one track
(on the other tracks it will be selected automatically) —
and then even the 'itemless' automation will be copied.

About "Group Item: On"
When you copy a group the automation points outside it aren't being copied, are they?

The older version of Logic added points to region's (=item's) edges,
didn't copy the points between/outside the 'items' etc.
So, I think this topic is in the right section.

Last edited by AugerJ; 06-26-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
In Pro Tools you either have to group the tracks
or have to 'draw' the line (where to paste) through all of them.

So, I think this topic is in the right section.
i don't like having to group to be able to select an area , .. for me is confusion. But probably range selection could be nice to define a group "range"?. I don't know. I tend to like simplicity.
What are the benefits of having to group?

Last edited by deeb; 06-26-2017 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
i don't like having to group to be able to select an area , .. for me is confusion. But probably range selection could be nice to define a group "range"?. I don't know. I tend to like simplicity.
What are the benefits of having to group?
If you want to select some area on, let's say, 90 tracks,
1) you don't have to go a-all the way down to marquee select it,
2) you don't have to rearrange tracks in case there are some tracks in-between that you don't want to copy
('Let's move this track ri-i-(...)-ight there, below these 45' *, — no, there's no need.).

To name a couple.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not 'pro-grouping'.
I think, any method has it's benefits.
And it's shortcomings.
In this case in Logic Pro you have to drag,
in Pro Tools you have to run commands.
How it's gonna be in REAPER,
we'll see, I guess (or hope).

______________________________________________

* FR about that:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=193341

Last edited by AugerJ; 06-26-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
If you want to select some area on, let's say, 90 tracks,
1) you don't have to go a-all the way down to marquee select it,
2) you don't have to rearrange tracks in case there are some tracks in-between that you don't want to copy
('Let's move this track ri-i-(...)-ight there, below these 45' *, — no, there's no need.).

To name a couple.

Thanks for letting me know!

Quote:
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How it's gonna be in REAPER,
we'll see, I guess (or hope).
both are different tools and both good it seems! hope to see both probably
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Thanks for letting me know!



both are different tools and both good it seems! hope to see both probably
Studio One does some super cool things, being able to select "shapes" of areas haha. It's awesome, but I'd be 100% happy if Reaper simply implemented the area marquee tool.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Studio One does some super cool things, being able to select "shapes" of areas haha.
Fancy )
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:04 AM   #27
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I sold my Cubase licence so i cannot print the Cubase screenshot how it deals with range selection, but i garantee it is sexy
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
ABLETON:

Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:
Script: Area selection - Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor:





Script: Area selection - Cycle between inserting temporary empty items in time selection of selected tracks, and deleting all temporary empty items:

(Using temporary empty items to mark the area selection is perhaps not as elegent as drawing a colored border, but it gets the job done.)


(v0.91 of the Cycle script fixes a small bug in deleting items.)

Last edited by juliansader; 07-09-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:29 AM   #29
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I've spotted (and tried) your Area selection scripts via ReaPack already shortly ago.
Really nice, thank you.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Script: Area selection - Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor:





Script: Area selection - Cycle between inserting temporary empty items in time selection of selected tracks, and deleting all temporary empty items:

(Using temporary empty items to mark the area selection is perhaps not as elegent as drawing a colored border, but it gets the job done.)


(v0.91 of the Cycle script fixes a small bug in deleting items.)
Very nice! But The almost / seems like it does / Smart scripts tend obfuscate the need of Clean implementations. I'll have To try later tho. Hope i AM wrong.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:35 AM   #31
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There's so much discussion and bug-fixing on how to handle Automation Items in the Prerelease threads right now, and I can't help thinking it'd all be solved by implementing area selection.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:33 AM   #32
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Epic Bump! (as we reach the end of RC with Automation Items...this FR will never have been more important or useful...)
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Epic Bump! (as we reach the end of RC with Automation Items...this FR will never have been more important or useful...)
OMG OMG OMG it is true we love you reaper heads
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:07 PM   #34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpfcj9WQc8
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:56 AM   #35
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sorry , but can you select only the first track and the first envelope and paste?

also: drag and drop is part of the feature request i think
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:39 AM   #36
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"sorry , but can you select only the first track and the first envelope and paste?"

- Nope, sorry,not possible.
You would have to first hide the second envelope, before applying duplication.


"also: drag and drop is part of the feature request i think"

Could be ..
Not possible also.
Personally, drag-drop action is always slower than just hitting a keyshortcut for the duplication action imho.
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
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[I]Personally, drag-drop action is always slower than just hitting a keyshortcut for the duplication action imho.
Probably not in this case, since when you drag and drop a selection at the time you drop you are finished (1 click) while with a key, use still have to press the key after selecting the cursor position for pasting , and have a shortcut... (2 clicks + key)
since: this is to be done hundreds if not thousands of times per day. .. is relevant
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:11 AM   #38
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Partly true maybe, but depends on distance of drag-drop also:
Maybe you want to have the duplicate quite far from original; then you have to drag drop over a longer distance
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:26 AM   #39
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in that case yep it's faster. In my experience, 9.9/10 times we have to use range to neighboors. But that is just me
but makes sense, at least in production 3-9 minut songs not neighbours usually means a new section, which are very few comparing to the number of little things we have to deal on each one of them. Also , sections usually don't have events or items in strange times , .. at least there should be one item in a strong beat that serves as an anchor to put the selection in the right time, which does not happen a lot in the little things that happen few to many many many times in each section.
probably does not make sense, but makes sense for me
All the best!

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Old 09-18-2017, 06:31 AM   #40
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Seems AI are awesome, but i still didn't have opportunity to try them.
Hope i am wrong , but area/ range selection is still more relevant then ever , right?
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