Old 09-18-2017, 06:46 AM   #41
juliansader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
"Ableton Live style" area duplication TEASER.
Has the secret been revealed yet?

I would venture a guess:
* Right-drag mouse modifier "Marquee select items and time"
* Then use a custom action that combines "SWS: Select only track(s) with selected item(s)" with my script "Area selection - Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor"?
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:55 AM   #42
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Dear Julian ! you are not converted to the need of range, right?
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:52 AM   #43
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I very hope Cockos will focus on this now, now that AI is implemented.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:51 PM   #44
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i dream with this! reaper sucks without this!

/me auto slaps!

Last edited by deeb; 09-25-2017 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:21 AM   #45
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JS: "Has the secret been revealed yet?"

Currently i have this:

Situation A:

You wanna duplicate everything falling in Time Selection, for ALL visible Tracks:

Workflow:

- Make Time Selection
- Click in Arrange to place edit cursor
- Custom Action:
Track: Select all tracks
Script: js_Area selection - Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor.lua



Situation B:

You wanna duplicate everything which you have marquee selected in Arrange.
You have setup mouse modifiers, so that marquee-ing also makes a Time selection.

Workflow:
- Run the Action : Script: Lokasenna_Track selection follows item selection.lua
- Make the marquee.
- Click in Arrange to place edit cursor but do the click on an envelope lane
- Then run Action: js_Area selection - Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor.lua

Workflow B is still not 100% what you maybe want, cause:

- you have to click on an envelope lane in Arrange, to place edit cursor.
if you click on a Track lane, you loose the Track selection, made by the marquee.
- you still duplicate every envelope lane (falling into time selection), belonging to a track, although you may just marqeed only the upper envelope lane belonging to a track.

In short, i know, totally not efficient and somewhat broken workflows, but i thought i would write it down here anyways :0)

EDIT: Above 2 workflows also seem to work for Automation Items instead of Envelopes : pretty nice.
My whishful workflow would be to totally not use envelopes anymore but solely Automation Items.
Way less screen clutter , meaning: no more envelope segments on track areas where there is no item.

Last edited by vanhaze; 09-26-2017 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:21 AM   #46
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Looks like AI's are almost sorted, let's get this extremely important (and fundamental) functionality at the top of the list!

I have personally tried moving 5 different producers from Ableton to Reaper because of AIs and every single one shuddered in shock at how duplication currently works in Reaper. It's like writing a thesis in Word 2017 but Ctrl-V still uses the code from Win95 Notepad.exe.

Sorry to keep bumping this, but like -- Reaper is the most advanced DAW in the world but you can't confidently Copy-Paste in it lol.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:21 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Reaper is the most advanced DAW in the world but you can't confidently Copy-Paste in it lol.
i agree! it's like imagining Usain Bolt being afraid of little rats.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:35 AM   #48
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There are currently two active threads about area selection in the FR subforum. Should I perhaps merge the threads?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
I have personally tried moving 5 different producers from Ableton to Reaper because of AIs and every single one shuddered in shock at how duplication currently works in Reaper.
If they shuddered in shock at how duplication works, I expect they ran away in horror when you showed them Regions!


Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
But The almost / seems like it does / Smart scripts tend obfuscate the need of Clean implementations. I'll have To try later tho. Hope i AM wrong.
Have you perhaps checked out the scripts yet? Are there any features of Ableton's duplication that are not covered by the duplication script?
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:02 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
If they shuddered in shock at how duplication works, I expect they ran away in horror when you showed them Regions!
Probably yes but regions at least in production of 6 -8 minutes songs are done dozens of times while copying and pasting is thousands.
If reaper implements Range/area selection basically they are doing a better region duplication also, because the way i see range selection == region selection without having to have all Y axis selected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Have you perhaps checked out the scripts yet? Are there any features of Ableton's duplication that are not covered by the duplication script?
I don't know about ableton i was a cubase guy. In cubase i used range selection for every every copy no need of anything else. Really! It's fast, occurate no hassles and covers region, range, tiny bit, long bits, 1 track , all tracks, strange attack times : EVERYTHING . CMD + D and Range selection removes need of dozens to hundreds of scripts we have available.
i talked earlier about this to vanhaze. i am not sure if i tried all of them but tried a lot.

But one thing: range selection is not to solve just this particular situation only. It is a tool that solves any duplication scenario.

Any way
Example:
Track A
Envelope1
Envelope2

I want duplicate Track: events in track A and Env1 fast if possible
In cubase i do this in 2 seconds even with strange times, clean , without messing anything else. One click to select range and CMD + D or CMD + C/ CMD + V or drag and drop to move, or duplicate with CMD pressed, .. blablabla: Simple. which also means: better workflow, better mood of producer == better music

Last edited by deeb; 10-13-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:28 AM   #50
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Well said deeb.

In other words:
Cockos should develop a "Range Tool", just like Cubase has.

I can imagine the most obvious way for Cockos to do that is by means of broadening the mouse modifiers functionality.

Currently, we can make a time selection and a marquee selection by means of mouse modifiers ; "arrange selection" should be somehow added to this.

Could very be i am simplifying too much but my first thought that comes to mind about arramge selection implementation would be above.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
CMD + D and Range selection removes need of dozens to hundreds of scripts we have available.
i talked earlier about this to vanhaze. i am not sure if i tried all of them but tried a lot.
No need to try hunderds of scripts! Just try the one: js_Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Any way
Example:
Track A
Envelope1
Envelope2

I want duplicate Track: events in track A and Env1 fast if possible
Do I understand correctly that you *don't* want to duplicate envelope 2?

I have a version of the above-mentioned script that excludes hidden track [EDIT: envelopes] from duplication. I can upload it to ReaPack.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
In cubase i do this in 2 seconds even with strange times, clean , without messing anything else. One click to select range and CMD + D or CMD + C/ CMD + V or drag and drop to move, or duplicate with CMD pressed, .. blablabla: Simple. which also means: better workflow, better mood of producer == better music
In REAPER: select track, select time range, set edit cursor at target, CMD+whatever and you're done!

EDIT: I submitted a FR to compress "select track, select time range" into a single marquee select: Mouse modifier for arrange view: Marquee select tracks and time. However, I should point out that the script also allows you to duplicate non-contiguous tracks and envelopes, which plain "Area Selection" cannot do.

Last edited by juliansader; 10-14-2017 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:15 PM   #52
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Juliansader I think we all appreciate your efforts on this! But can you imagine having to hack/script "Copy and Paste" in MS Word in 2017 to make it usable? In an editing suite? This is such core functionality, and your scripts look great, they just aren't replacements for what should be natively supported.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
No need to try hunderds of scripts! Just try the one: js_Duplicate items and automation in time selection of selected tracks to edit cursor.

Do I understand correctly that you *don't* want to duplicate envelope 2?

I have a version of the above-mentioned script that excludes hidden tracks from duplication. I can upload it to ReaPack.

In REAPER: select track, select time range, set edit cursor at target, CMD+whatever and you're done!

EDIT: I submitted a FR to compress "select track, select time range" into a single marquee select: Mouse modifier for arrange view: Marquee select tracks and time. However, I should point out that the script also allows you to duplicate non-contiguous tracks and envelopes, which plain "Area Selection" cannot do.

I am sorry. It's difficult.

- i don't want script to solve each situation i have to deal. Because with range selection can deal with all.

- The example i said or any other probably can be achieved with hundreds of ways probably, but none of them efficiently, hassle free i guarantee you.

- "I have a version of the above-mentioned script that excludes hidden tracks from duplication. I can upload it to ReaPack."
thank you! but that is what i want to avoid. A script for every situation. Why i should be forced to copy only visible items .

- It would be nice to make a challenge: How fast reaper goes compared with example cubase to deal different situations of duplication : i am sure you would be surprised 10 - 0 .
I don't have cubase anymore otherwize i would do a video and would challange you :P the godfather of curves . Reaper wins 10-0 on many many other things tho.

- I submitted a FR to compress "select track, select time range" into a single marquee select:

if you mean: select tracks , select time range (snapped to grid), make a "square/contrast" around what is selected and then allow directly drag/move or drag and drop copy or cmd D to duplicate, or cmd C to paste later, i think that is range selection.

Last edited by deeb; 10-13-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:31 AM   #54
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@ JS:

If you could somehow implement the functionality of this script into your area selection script:
Script: tritonality_X-Raym_Cubase_Style_SelectTrack_On_ItemSelect.lua

Then your script will come closer to the wished for area selection tool i think.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:08 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
If you could somehow implement the functionality of this script into your area selection script:
Script: tritonality_X-Raym_Cubase_Style_SelectTrack_On_ItemSelect.lua

Then your script will come closer to the wished for area selection tool i think.
The problem with this approach (track selection follows item selection) is that tracks without items cannot be duplicated. Currently, the scripts can easily duplicate envelopes, even without any items in the time selection.

If a user would like track selection to follow item selection, the scripts can be combined with "SWS: Select only track(s) with selected item(s)" in a custom action. The right-drag mouse modifier "Marquee select items and time" can be used to select items and time simultaneously, before running the custom action.
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Old 10-14-2017, 04:35 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
- "I have a version of the above-mentioned script that excludes hidden tracks from duplication. I can upload it to ReaPack."
thank you! but that is what i want to avoid. A script for every situation. Why i should be forced to copy only visible items .
Oops, I meant to write "hidden track envelopes". Hiding envelopes is an easy way to skip envelopes that should not be duplicated: in your example, if you want to skip Env1 and only duplicate the item and Env2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
- It would be nice to make a challenge: How fast reaper goes compared with example cubase to deal different situations of duplication : i am sure you would be surprised 10 - 0 .
For the simple types of duplication showcased in this thread, REAPER's native functions and scripts work fine -- and fast. For more complex situations, however, I agree with you and will therefore not be surprised at all. (My personal bête noire is Region copying/moving, which is dangerously broken for MIDI work.)

I am curious though: how would Cubase or Ableton deal with this situation? You want to create 10 duplicates of measures 1-5 from tracks 1, 3 and 5, together with their envelope automation, except that you want to exclude all FX parameter envelopes from duplication.

In any case, I think (or hope) that it wouldn't be difficult to implement proper Area Selection. Automation Items aren't even needed, since most of the functionality already exists within the plain "Envelope points move with items" option: move/copy multiple envelope lanes together, move envelopes across tracks, etc.

Last edited by juliansader; 10-14-2017 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post

I am curious though: how would Cubase or Ableton deal with this situation? You want to create 10 duplicates of measures 1-5 from tracks 1, 3 and 5, together with their envelope automation, except that you want to exclude all FX parameter envelopes from duplication.
you can download the Cubase operation manual here and check page 81: Range editing https://www.steinberg.net/en/support...lements_7.html


Here is a bit of what it says:

Making selection ranges for several non-contiguous tracks:
You can create selection ranges that cover several tracks. It is also possible to exclude tracks from a selection range:

1. Create a selection range from the first to the last desired track.

2. Press [Ctrl]/[Command] and click in the selection range on the tracks that you
want to exclude from the selection.

3. In the same manner,you can add a track to the selection range by [Ctrl]/[Command]-clicking in the selection range area on the track.


Sincerely I never used the full potential of cubase range selection. In your scenario i would duplicate each track individually (select what i would like to duplicate and hit CMD D 10 times)
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:00 PM   #58
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:04 PM   #59
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Sorry but i don't get this.

The described duplication behaviour in Live's MIDI Editor is totally possible and the very same in Reaper's MIDI Editor.
But maybe i am missing the point.
Another thing is that here, we are discussing selection and duplication behaviour in Reaper Arrange, not in MIDI Editor.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
I am not sure what Alon means by "right after the marquee". Does he mean "directly after the last selected note", or can the marquee stretch past the last note?

Perhaps you can pass along some help to him:

By default, REAPER does not duplicate notes directly after the last selected note. Instead, REAPER has two types of native note-duplication actions: "Duplicate events" and "Duplicate events within time selection".

* Duplicate events: Uses a step size of *one whole measure* (or multiple whole measures, if the selected events fall in more than one measure). It copies selected events into the next measure that does not contain selected events, while keeping the events' positions fixed relative to the measure. Very useful for rapidly duplicating drum patterns and other stuff that typically repeat every measure.

* Duplicate events within time selection: This action gives the user precise control of the step size. It uses a step size of one *time selection*, and copies all selected events within the time selection, keeping their positions fixed relative to the time selection.

To duplicate notes precisely at the end of the selected notes (using native Actions), you can do
~ Set the time selection equal to the selected notes (or use the action "Edit: Set time selection to selected notes")
and then
~ Edit: Duplicate events within time selection

These can be combined into a single custom action, if you often need this type of duplication.


(There are of course also scripts that can all kinds of fancy duplications.)

Last edited by juliansader; 10-15-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:34 AM   #61
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Just to reiterate how Area Selection should work vs how it "works" in Reaper:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.

...now throw Automation Items into this mess.

This is just the tiniest example of just how flawed the current duplication is in Reaper Again, Reaper destroys Ableton in a million other ways, but this is Such core functionality that is going to drive the new crop away immediately.

I just want Reaper to be the best it can be!!! This would get it 99% of the way there.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:06 PM   #62
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it is a feature : push your brain duplication with actions with unlimited hassles factors: just missing the counter of tries and stress level.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:30 PM   #63
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I do not think that these GIFs are an apt comparison. They are comparing apples and oranges (or rather, a slightly different variety of apple):
* REAPER's "Duplicate selected items and their automation" action, versus
* Ableton's "Duplicate everything in marquee selection".

In REAPER, the (old) method for duplicating everything in the track was to insert empty items, so that the entire time selection is covered by items. Empty items are kinda like REAPER's version of Area Select -- not as elegant as fancy graphics and borders, but they get the job done. (This is basically what my scripts use.)

The new Automation Items feature offers another, perhaps more elegant solution: Simply insert AIs in the time selection, marquee-select them together with the audio item, and then the entire AI will move, even if there is no item above it.

The new automation items are also very nifty for moving or duplicating automation between different tracks, without any accompanying audio items. Want to duplicate Track 1's non-contiguous automation lanes 1, 2 and 5 to Track 5's lanes 2, 3 and 6? Simply make a time selection and click to insert AIs in Track 1, then drag or copy/paste them to Track 5. (Can Ableton or Cubase do this as easily?)

Of course, my scripts offer even faster solutions, and in the deathmatch between REAPER and Cubase that deeb proposed, REAPER seems to be ahead 1-0! Yeah!

REAPER's duplication actions can certainly be improved (like many other aspect of REAPER), but it is a pity if potential new users "shudder in shock" and decide not to try out REAPER, simply because they do not know the full range of capabilities.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:38 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
in the deathmatch between REAPER and Cubase that deeb proposed, REAPER seems to be ahead 1-0! Yeah!
seriously ! you made me laugh. "ahead" ? Are you sure you didn't mean the opposite word and forgot one digit: 10 not 1? you reminded me iraq defense minister during last war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOnm...mBZHsnAM&t=593

Last edited by deeb; 10-22-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:09 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
seriously ! you made me laugh. "ahead" ? Are you sure you didn't mean the opposite word and forgot one digit: 10 not 1? you reminded me iraq defense minister during last war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOnm...mBZHsnAM&t=593
(Beware of slanderous personal attacks.)

You suggested the challenge:
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
- It would be nice to make a challenge: How fast reaper goes compared with example cubase to deal different situations of duplication
I described a common situation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
You want to create 10 duplicates of measures 1-5 from tracks 1, 3 and 5, together with their envelope automation, except that you want to exclude all FX parameter envelopes from duplication.
From your answer above, it seems that REAPER wins in this situation, since REAPER can do this duplication easily:
* Select the tracks,
* Set the time selection,
* Hide the FX envelopes (this can even be done in a single action, using one of the SWS actions) (Does Cubase have the facility to skip envelopes?)
* Run duplicate script (press shortcut 10 times).

Last edited by juliansader; 10-22-2017 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:05 PM   #66
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An example of duplication / area selection using Automation Items:

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Old 10-22-2017, 02:42 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
(Beware of slanderous personal attacks.)
i was genuinely thinking you were joking or choosen the wrong word(i even gone to dictionary to verify if knew the right meaning for ahead)

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
You suggested the challenge:
which wasn't done, and there are lot's of scenarios (for reaper, because cubase the process is always the same - 1 select and 1 drag and drop or CMD D or CMD C / CMD V) and my answear was to clarify your curiosity of how range selection works in cubase , not a challange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
From your answer above, it seems that REAPER wins in this situation, since REAPER can do this duplication easily:
* Select the tracks,
* Set the time selection,
* Hide the FX envelopes (this can even be done in a single action, using one of the SWS actions) (Does Cubase have the facility to skip envelopes?)
* Run duplicate script
cubase takes 2 seconds to duplicate in any situation. 1 click for select area and a drag and drop (select and drag and drop or duplicate shortcut). How can you say reaper wins?

how many seconds you would take for your situation? how many clicks involved for your common scenario? and putting the envelopes visible again, doing this hundreds of times per project.

i'll try counting:
1 or 2 or more: for Select the tracks,
+1 drag - for Set the time selection
+1 or more click per FX envelope to hide
+1 or more click per Fx envelope to put it again visible
---
+ eventually Y scrolling and X also (twice the times)
+ time to know which action to use on each situation (or do use always the same script for duplication?
edit: a side note: in cubase i use CMD C or V or D to duplicate whatever selected (item, point, or selected range), the same happens with delete. Basically makes life easier.
It's simple , obvious, and every user with basic understanding of using software expects...
+ time to configure it
+ toolbar or menu space or 1 more shorcut to memorize

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
(Does Cubase have the facility to skip envelopes?)
of course and i have told you before:
----
Making selection ranges for several non-contiguous tracks:
You can create selection ranges that cover several tracks. It is also possible to exclude tracks from a selection range:
1. Create a selection range from the first to the last desired track.

2. Press [Ctrl]/[Command] and click in the selection range on the tracks that you
want to exclude from the selection.

3. In the same manner,you can add a track to the selection range by [Ctrl]/[Command]-clicking
in the selection range area on the track.
-----
something probably you are not aware is that envelopes and tracks are treated equally with no restrictions - what you select is what you get

Last edited by deeb; 10-23-2017 at 09:19 AM. Reason: update
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
An example of duplication / area selection using Automation Items:

would you mind showing how to duplicate from this example to this scenario?

duplicate midi item and volume pre envelope only from 1.4 to 2 and paste it at 1
and then duplicate midi item and volume pre envelope only from 1.3 to 1.4 and paste it at 1.4 (i am assuming media item has 3 beats length

I am curious to know number of clicks and actions

Thanks

Last edited by deeb; 10-23-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:40 AM   #69
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This is my point - it shouldn't have to be hacked together. It's literally Copy and Paste that should be one keystroke that works every time! No special cases, no weird destruction of previous automation points, just clone the selection!
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:58 AM   #70
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Here's another example. Imagine if Reaper and Ableton were Text Editors, and copy/paste worked like this (selection in red):



Would anyone be ok with the Reaper version? Even for a day? Where you randomly lose formatting, punctuation etc depending on 1000 different variables? Would people stand for having to use special techniques to PASTE, when Ableton just does this super essential core thing perfectly?

Last edited by ferropop; 10-23-2017 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:33 PM   #71
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Julian, anything? please

Last edited by deeb; 10-25-2017 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:56 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Juliansader, i would like to avoid more 15 days without clarifying what this issue is all about.

Did you read what i wrote and tried the "challenge" i have proposed 3 days ago? could you share your results, thoughts and point of view now?
I've already wasted too much time trying to help here, when you are obviously far more interested in complaining than in finding solutions.

Go RTFM.

Last edited by juliansader; 10-25-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:20 AM   #73
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What about the Regions Folders scripts ? A bit different but interesting though.

Script: Region (aka folder) items - Cockos Incorporated Forums



I didn't test it with automation items though.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:28 AM   #74
vanhaze
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Thx for the hint X-raym.

Correct me if i am wrong but it seems that, in the end, it will still copy paste everything across all Tracks

What we need is a specific area selection copy-paste of items/envelopes/automation items, not across all tracks perse.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:33 AM   #75
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@vanhaze
It has a more advanced system :

Quote:
Track title beginning with * : select across all tracks (*SONG track in demo gif)
Track title beginning with ^ : select the children of this tracks parent
Track title beginning with > : select folling n tracks (siblings) (eg >2 will make selection on the next 2 tracks)
Track title beginning with - : ignore this track (useful when making selection from *SONG tracks, ignore this one
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:31 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
you are obviously far more interested in complaining than in finding solutions.
It's a feature request which there is no solution that we know.
So you want me say it works with "the tons of scripts around" when it doesn't?

sounds like the truth is : you couldn't make it work for the example i challenged you. Cubase would do that in 4 seconds. Reaper would take 4 hours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Go RTFM.
i see

So basically you could be modest and recognize that nothing solves this issue, instead of saying i am complaining.
Because yes: i am complaining, but there is a reason.

Last edited by deeb; 10-26-2017 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:19 AM   #77
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I honestly appreciate the hard scripting work from X-raym and JS, trying to make real area selection possible in Reaper.

But me 2 thinks it's not the proper road to drive: using scripts to overcome the lack of real area selection.

It really has to be implemented in a native way by Cockos imho.
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Old 10-26-2017, 12:54 PM   #78
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The forum should be a place for friendly sharing of information -- and even perhaps more importantly, a resource of *accurate* information for users. Users who persist in spreading false information should simply be banned.


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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
duplicate midi item and volume pre envelope only from 1.4 to 2 and paste it at 1
and then duplicate midi item and volume pre envelope only from 1.3 to 1.4 and paste it at 1.4 (i am assuming media item has 3 beats length
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sounds like the truth is : you couldn't make it work for the example i challenged you. Cubase would do that in 4 seconds. Reaper would take 4 hours.
This is very simple duplication to do - if you had bothered to RTFM or the script's info.

Using a script (12 seconds):




Using native AI features (9 seconds):
(Note that using AIs will be much simpler once AI features are mature, as I expect that we will then be able to move selected Media Items with selected AIs.)



(These GIFs also demonstrate the difference between REAPER's edge point interpolation, versus the AIs' new linear approximations.)
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Old 10-26-2017, 01:00 PM   #79
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"as I expect that we will then be able to move selected Media Items with selected AIs"

AMEN !
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:11 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
The forum should be a place for friendly sharing of information -- and even perhaps more importantly, a resource of *accurate* information for users. Users who persist in spreading false information should simply be banned.
well I did exaggerate when i say reaper would take 4 hours for that scenario (it was ment as a huge exageration and evident).
But honestly, i am not sure who's not being accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post

This is very simple duplication to do - if you had bothered to RTFM or the script's info.
i see... This scenario was ment to be simple so that we could make conclusions about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Using a script (12 seconds):


In this scenario:
- Cubase: would take 2 drag and drops (+- 4 seconds )
- Reaper:
2 drags to select time
2 click to select items
2 action to copy
2 actions to position cursor
2 action to paste
1 action you prepared for this example is omitted in the gif - something like hide all except selected envelope (what would happen with more envelopes like 10 to hide?, +1 click per envelope (+ 10 clicks))


so: 12 seconds is an amazing time for 11 actions! but you were on a clearly prepared 100 metres race.
In cubase i would take 4 seconds but relaxed and unprepared. In cubase probably, with so much preparation and focus and fast you could make this in 1 second or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Using native AI features (9 seconds):
In this scenario:
- Cubase: would take 2 drag and drops (4 seconds)
- Reaper:
2 drags - to select time
2 pre-prepared action not visible in The GIF: something to create AI on cursor positioned track with time selection length .. ? i am not sure tho, if so cough cough
2 drags and drop - to paste items
2 click to select AI items (what would happen with more envelopes like 10 to hide?, +1 click per AI (+20 clicks)
4 drag and drop



Now Imagine a scenario with 100 Envelopes to deal on first GIF :
- Cubase: would take 2 drag and drops (+- 8 seconds, because needs more scrolling )
- Reaper : 11 actions + 100 clicks

Imagine a scenario with 100 Ai Items to deal on second GIF :
- Cubase: would take 2 drag and drops (+- 8 seconds, because needs more scrolling )
- Reaper : at this moment? 12 actions + 100 clicks
- Reaper : at the future with mature AI? probably 9 or 11 (when multi select AI vertically is available, and what you say about item moving):

Also:
- The times you say you did are result of preparation and focus, in real situation you would take (much) longer, or you are not human ... (when i say cubase takes 4 seconds to make 2 drag and drops i am doing 1 drag and drop per each 2 seconds, .. in your exemplification you do many actions for each 2 seconds and some of them quite hidden or hacky .. and pre prepared ...).
- Now imagine a scenario you would like to deal with this hundreds of times per project

So I would like to make an imaginary exercise with audio items:
------------------------------------------------------
- to duplicate an audio item we need 1 action in reaper
- imagine the content present between time selection and selected tracks as a single audio item
------------------------------------------------------
What would you think of a DAW which requires 6 actions do make a single audio item duplication?

Also, i would like to ask, which information exposed in this thread is lacking accuracy and in some way not honest?

Finally i would like to alert that Range selection is not a anti AI thing.
Instead AI will benefit with range selection just like Envelopes and Items

You must think of Range Tool like a region with no Y limits, conveniently placed(*):
- It very fast to make automations too with range tool (because selecting tinny things and duplicating them like 4 times and you made a loop, then select this loop and then per example make an AI
- It's perfect to select tinny things or big things, 1 track or all tracks.
- * It is conveniently placed : The square that should appear when doing a range selection is in the place of what it represents (what you are really needing to manipulate and focus)
this content is immediately ready to be moved: dragged , deleted , duplicated
- * your mouse almost does not move , since it is all done in the place we really need - it is a range selection, not a time selection and track selection
- * it just one fast move which drags what we want and in the same place you cmd + drag to where you want
- * no need to get way of the content with your mouse (like select time and select tracks are not needed - with my settings at least)
- 1 inevitable thing: It's destructive on the edges but that is what makes it strong , because it removes from his content any dependencies - what you select is what you get, independently from
where it comes or where it goes)

in a phrase: Range selection makes possible to work fast and clean with small or big regions with no Y limit, just has easy as it is now working with a single audio item.

Last edited by deeb; 10-27-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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