Old 08-09-2017, 07:24 AM   #1
vincentoliver
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Default Ambisonic Camera Movement advice

Hey all,

l wonder if there's any ambisonic heads who could lend some advice to a n00b.

I've begun work on my first ambisonics project which takes place mostly in just one room where there is a person in the middle and, unusually, the camera moves around her. I hope the attachment makes clear what I mean:
In black, you see our star. In blue there are various sound emitters. In red, the path the camera travels. The camera arcs around the star, always pointed at her.

We don't have that much time so I thought I'd try to automate the camera movement etc on the master bus, rather than each sound emitter. I'm using Facebook 360 and ATK bits. Oh and it's a VR project so the camera will turn with the viewers' head too.

Anyone got any general advice on this?

Or if you want a more specific question: how to I automate position where the focal point is not the camera?

Hope this makes sense?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Camera Pan.JPG (57.8 KB, 93 views)

Last edited by vincentoliver; 08-09-2017 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:33 PM   #2
ReaDave
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I'd love to offer you some suggestions but my primary use for Ambisonics is 3D music mixing rather than VR. As such, I've never played around with VR tracking.

I do know Blue Ripple Sound have Ambisonic manipulators in their range. Their plugins are quite expensive but they are excellent. I use their upmixers, decoders and core plugins for all my Ambisonic mixing.

Perhaps you could find a way to use the Blue Ripple manipulators to do what you want.

Disclaimer - I don't work for Blue Ripple nor do I get paid commission for recommendations. I'm just a very happy customer.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:59 AM   #3
vincentoliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
I'd love to offer you some suggestions but my primary use for Ambisonics is 3D music mixing rather than VR. As such, I've never played around with VR tracking.
Ah never mind, thanks for pointing me to Blue Ripple. This project is a bit of a test for us, we might not be going into VR too much in future so we won't be splashing out on these. We have the freebies of course and using a couple of free trials.

Thanks again for your response.

EDIT: actually, may I ask… where are 3D music mixes used? Is there a market for them right now?
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:59 PM   #4
ReaDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentoliver View Post

EDIT: actually, may I ask… where are 3D music mixes used? Is there a market for them right now?
I've been into surround sound now since the early 80s and Ambisonics is a natural progression for me. It isn't really about the market for me but more the fact that I love it.
One of the big benefits to mixing in Ambisonic format is that downmixes to other formats such as 5.1, stereo, mono and even Dolby Atoms (more of a sidemix than downmix in this example) are simply a matter of using the appropriate decoder.
I've found that even stereo mixes sound significantly better when derived from the Ambisonic mix than if I started in stereo to begin with. Same thing with 5.1. There's a much better image than using traditional panning techniques.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:24 PM   #5
vincentoliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
I've found that even stereo mixes sound significantly better when derived from the Ambisonic mix than if I started in stereo to begin with. Same thing with 5.1. There's a much better image than using traditional panning techniques.
Wow! I'll definitely try this out. Thanks!
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:21 PM   #6
plush2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentoliver View Post
EDIT: actually, may I ask… where are 3D music mixes used? Is there a market for them right now?
Well YouTube and Facebook now provide two market/distribution options. There's no sales of mixes per se yet but I imagine it's good marketing if it grabs attention.

Your problem highlights one of the difficulties with Ambisonics since it is generally scene based with a static listener. I'm going to post some JS plugin code here and I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. It might be mine or someone else's who is much smarter (more likely). I just can't remember. At any rate, it attempts to convert from the Reasurround Octophonic Box speaker layout to 2nd order FUMA Ambisonics. Perhaps if you play around with this you can achieve a suitable mix of Vector based object panning around the listener. Set up your sound objects as inputs in Reasurround, select them all, automate motion and rotation around the listener and then use the JS plugin to convert to 2o ambsionics and then to whichever delivery method you require.

Quote:
desc:Reasurround to Ambisonic
// uses cartesian values to convert the VBAP position
// from Reasurround to 1st or 2nd order Ambisonic

slider1:1<0,0,0{Spherical Harmonics,Controlled Opposites}>Formula
//slider2:0<0,3,0{Stereo,5.1 ITUr,Octophonic Box}>Reasurround configuration

in_pin:FLD
in_pin:FRD
in_pin:BLD
in_pin:BRD
in_pin:FLU
in_pin:FRU
in_pin:BLU
in_pin:BRU
out_pin:W
out_pin:X
out_pin:Y
out_pin:Z
out_pin:R
out_pin:S
out_pin:T
out_pin:U
out_pin:V

@init
bpos=0;

@slider
something=slider1*srate;

@block
blah+=samplesblock;

@sample
FLD = spl0;
FRD = spl1;
BLD = spl2;
BRD = spl3;
FLU = spl4;
FRU = spl5;
BLU = spl6;
BRU = spl7;

Wcrt = 0.1768;
FstOrdcrt = (slider1 == 0 ? 0.2165 : (slider1 == 1 ? 0.1140));
ScdOrdcrt = (slider1 == 0 ? 0.1875 : (slider1 == 1 ? 0.0369));
null = 0;

W = (
(FLD*Wcrt) +
(FRD*Wcrt) +
(BLD*Wcrt) +
(BRD*Wcrt) +
(FLU*Wcrt) +
(FRU*Wcrt) +
(BLU*Wcrt) +
(BRU*Wcrt));

X = (
(FLD*FstOrdcrt) +
(FRD*FstOrdcrt) +
(BLD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BRD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(FLU*FstOrdcrt) +
(FRU*FstOrdcrt) +
(BLU*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BRU*-FstOrdcrt));

Y = (
(FLD*FstOrdcrt) +
(FRD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BLD*FstOrdcrt) +
(BRD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(FLU*FstOrdcrt) +
(FRU*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BLU*FstOrdcrt) +
(BRU*-FstOrdcrt));

Z = (
(FLD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(FRD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BLD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(BRD*-FstOrdcrt) +
(FLU*FstOrdcrt) +
(FRU*FstOrdcrt) +
(BLU*FstOrdcrt) +
(BRU*FstOrdcrt));

R = ( //does not pass any audio in a cube
(FLD*null) +
(FRD*null) +
(BLD*null) +
(BRD*null) +
(FLU*null) +
(FRU*null) +
(BLU*null) +
(BRU*null));

S = (
(FLD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FLU*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRU*ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLU*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRU*-ScdOrdcrt));

T = (
(FLD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FLU*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRU*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLU*ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRU*-ScdOrdcrt));

U = ( //does not pass any audio in a cube
(FLD*null) +
(FRD*null) +
(BLD*null) +
(BRD*null) +
(FLU*null) +
(FRU*null) +
(BLU*null) +
(BRU*null));

V = (
(FLD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLD*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRD*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FLU*ScdOrdcrt) +
(FRU*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BLU*-ScdOrdcrt) +
(BRU*ScdOrdcrt));

spl0 = W;
spl1 = X;
spl2 = Y;
spl3 = Z;
spl4 = R;
spl5 = S;
spl6 = T;
spl7 = U;
spl8 = V;
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