Old 09-30-2017, 03:09 AM   #1
olemuso
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Default M-Audio 2496 Analogue + S/PDIF

Hello. This is my first post so be gentle with me
I've read the FAQ and plenty of other threads but it doesn't look like this has been asked before, so here goes.
As the heading suggests I'm using an M-Audio 2496 with windows 10 and Reaper 5.
Is there any way I can use the two S/PDIF inputs as well as the analogue inputs?
I currently use the analogue inputs as these are the only ones Reaper can 'see'. I can use both sets of inputs in Windows using the Delta mixer software but Reaper is blind to the digital in.
Does anyone have any ideas please? This would save me binning the card and buying a 4-input gizmo.
Thanks for looking.
- - - - - - - - -
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:36 AM   #2
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Default I solved this problem awhile ago

first thing to understand is that the two S/PDIF RCA female jacks are not the same. One is a STEREO digital INPUT....the other is a STEREO digital OUTPUT which in turn means that a S/PDIF (digital)cable must be used. My use of the 2496 S/pdif stereo output is to listen back through a set of Edirol MA-10D powered bookshelf speakers which have a digital input jack. In my use of the 2496 INPUT S/pdif it is receiving DIGITAL signal from an outboard hardware unit which is a Beringher Ultramatch Pro whose job is to convert analog to digital then sent along to the 2496 s/pdif. Analog instruments(drum mics,guitar,bass) go into a Mackie 8bus 24 channel mixer of which I use two separate stereo analog output pairs. One pair (from the drum mic subgroup) goes to the Beringher converter and the other analog stereo pair connect to the 2496 analog inputs L+R accordingly. The drawback is that I can only record 4 tracks with this setup usually guitar track 1,bass track 2,and drums (premixed) on 3+4. This is my workaround to get the xtra 2 tracks for recording with the 2496 soundcard. Overdubs and the use of MIDI are in the workflow. Also the S/pdif and analog settings in Reaper must be set up properly as well as the M-Audio 2496 mixer and hardware settings.Hope this gets you going a bit, maybe another 2496 user can chime in with their use of this decent soundcard
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:36 AM   #3
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Preferences/Audio/Device

Can you change "Enable Inputs" - "Last" from 2 to 4 here?
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Old 09-30-2017, 03:07 PM   #4
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Default M-Audio

Thanks for the input - yes I do realise there's an 'in' and and 'out'.
I bought a D/A Convertor and it works fine, allowing me to access an extra stereo pair (or two mono ins). I'm using 75 Ohm digital cable. I don't use the S/PDIF out at all.
I can see both the analogue (Delta Line 1&2) and the digital (stereo S/PDIF) responding in the M-Audio mixer and in Windows but Reaper will only recognise the analogue pair.
I've since been told that Reaper will only recognise one interface at a time and that it probably sees this as two interfaces, however that does not explain why Reaper does not even 'see' the SP/DIF when everything else does.
I wanted to use the S/PDIF (Coax Digital) as an extra pair of inputs so that I could record FOUR simultaneously instead of the present two. But it looks like I'll have to bin the 2496 and buy a USB interface with 4 or more inputs.
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Old 09-30-2017, 05:54 PM   #5
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SP/DIF only supports 48 kHz in some cases. You're not trying to record at 96 or so?
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Old 10-01-2017, 01:35 AM   #6
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Prefs>Audio Device

Driver - M Audio ASIO
Inputs - First = Line 1 Last = S/PDIF2

I haven't uninstalled mine, yet. Just checked, S/PDIF shows up in the options here.
When I arm a track, the inputs are an option, even at 96k.

You're not using ASIO4ALL, by any chance? DON'T!!!
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:20 AM   #7
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Yes, I'm recordong at 96K

And yes, I think I'm using ASIO4ALL, what's the alternative?

Thanks again.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olemuso View Post
Yes, I'm recordong at 96K

And yes, I think I'm using ASIO4ALL, what's the alternative?

Thanks again.
The alternative to using ASIO4ALL is not using ASIO4ALL.

The last version of the M Audio driver (v6.0.8) works fine on it's own in Win 10. I ran it in 'compatibility mode', but there are guys on here who use it, as is.

I got rid of ASIO4ALL a long time ago, as I found it it caused more problems than it fixed.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:43 AM   #9
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EDIT: Beaten to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by olemuso View Post
And yes, I think I'm using ASIO4ALL, what's the alternative?
As posted already:

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk View Post
Prefs>Audio Device

Driver - M Audio ASIO
Inputs - First = Line 1 Last = S/PDIF2
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk View Post
The alternative to using ASIO4ALL is not using ASIO4ALL.

The last version of the M Audio driver (v6.0.8) works fine on it's own in Win 10. I ran it in 'compatibility mode', but there are guys on here who use it, as is.

I got rid of ASIO4ALL a long time ago, as I found it it caused more problems than it fixed.
that's the way ahaha you like it ahaha .... ,~

get rid of asio for all
install driver 6.0.8
a d use audio asio and then your m-audio device
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:38 AM   #11
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It turns out I'm NOT using ASIO4ALL. My driver is M-Audio version 5.10.0.5078, which is older than the one you mentioned. I'll get the new one and see ho I get on.
Thanks guys for all your input
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:53 AM   #12
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If you can't find the driver, shout up.
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:05 AM   #13
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This is what I have in Reaper Prefs . . . (if the pic has uploaded).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Reaper Prefs.jpg (40.9 KB, 37 views)
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:09 AM   #14
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Hey guys . . . it works!

Thank you so much.

First - the right driver
Next - setting up the Delta settings
Finally I was able to set Reaper prefs (see pic) 'Last' to '4' which wasn't possible before.

You good people have saved me spending £200+ on a new interface...... as we say around here, 'Ta, muchly'
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:38 AM   #15
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drop down the lower arrow in the "enable inputs" window,it's labeled FIRST your s/pdif converter should appear (you have to name it) with the other analog options. I slid the Ultramatch to the top (probably doesn't matter) so my "Delta AP analog in" is in the lower LAST window.
Your M-Audio 2496 has a EXTERNAL S/PDIF tick box that has to be set in the hardware tab which is SYNC SOURCE a "x" will confirm that the card is receiving digital info. I went through it this morning with success so you too should have this capability if your connections are correct. Power up all of your gear especially the converter (it needs to be sending) BEFORE attempting to use the 2496 then bring up Reaper, let it simmer, open the 2496, go to the hardware page and tick the EXTERNAL-S/PDIF box. The box should except the "x" if not there is a problem somewhere upstream.
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Old 10-01-2017, 08:10 AM   #16
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with ASIO4ALL. It's just pointless using it with an audio interface that already has an ASIO driver. ASIO4ALL gets very good performance out of hardware that doesn't have it's own ASIO driver. Unless the ASIO driver that came with your audio interface is really badly broken, there is no other reason to use it.
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Old 10-01-2017, 09:26 AM   #17
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Well I've gone from bad to worse! :/
On a test recording I found I was getting really bad 'phasing' on the mic. Then I noticed a lot of noise on the mic channel. After trying mics and cables I realised that the S/PDIF was bleeding all over analogue 1&2.
I tried every combination I could find in the Delta mixer and got nowhere fast.
After uninstalling and reinstalling I now find I have no sound - on anything.

System restore has failed to sort it and to make matters worse I now find that Band In A Box refuses to start . . . presumably because it can't access a sound card.
I think I should have left well enough alone.

I'll take a break and try again later.

Thanks again for all your input but if I get it up and running again - even with two channels - I think I'll leave it as it is.
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Old 10-01-2017, 02:24 PM   #18
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Default Band in a Box won't start

I have PG Musics program BIAB but don't ever even attempt to use the S/PDIF with that software program nor do I use the supplementary DAW REALBAND other than to load a BIAB file into it for putting instruments on separate tracks. So the deal is the 2496 S/PDIF for me is to track with a live drummer, electric bass, and guitar player to lay down the rhythm section on tunes in REAPER. BIAB is a program that has several cool uses but multitrack recording isn't one of them. Maybe an explanation of your intended useage aside from the up and running of 2496 S/PDIF would be helpful. I would leave BIAB out of it and just go back to getting the S/pdif to work in Reaper which was working.In BIAB you can render the tracks that you prefer and then drag them into Reaper for unlimited track counts. Also a good idea is to write down what you are changing as you go along which gives you a chance to review. Manuals are a big plus in this situation so don't be shy to find what you are attempting as the answer is usually right there for you. I too had to hack my way through the process of getting the 2496 S/pdif to work and i'm just okay with it because i have two additional tracks in Reaper.
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:30 PM   #19
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Hi. Thanks for that. I only use BIAB to make backing tracks which I then port over using it's DAW function. . . .
After today's faffing about I ended up with no sound anywhere - I mentioned BIAB just as an example.
Anyway, I did another System Restore to a much earlier time and I'm back up and running with everything as it was before I tried to get the S/PDIF going. . . . so far so good.
I'm making a note of every setting, creating a new restore point and tomorrow I'll have another go with the S/PDIF but if it gives me any grief I'll be binning the card and buying one of the USB ones - one with 4 or 6 ins.
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:55 PM   #20
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Default S/pdif in 2496

the S/pdif in the 2496 is not a "set and forget" setting, when finished with the project that uses the converter\S/pdif you have to re-set the card each time back to INTERNAL in the hardware settings window to get the other programs to work properly.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:25 AM   #21
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You keep giving me more 'food for thought', I'll remember that when I'm playing about with it later.
Can't believe I've never even tried the digital in/out in all the years I've had the card, but I never had the need. But now all of a sudden I need 3 or 4 channels at once.
Thanks again.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:03 AM   #22
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Hi guys.
I want to thank you all for your valuable time and experience but I'm at the end of the line with this now.
I managed to record a stereo backing track (S/PDIF), guitar (CH1) and vocal (CH2) in Reaper. It recorded flawlessly.
I then did some EQ and FX and was really pleased with the way it was coming along.
So then I Rendered a master and imported it into Sound Forge to tweak it a bit.... Sound Forge would not recognise it, wouldn't even play it.
Then I find that Media Player won't play it (doesn't support this sample rate).
Sony Vegas wouldn't read it either :/
To rub salt in the wound no program on the PC would play ANY of my music files.
So for the final time I hit 'System Restore'.
Everything is now back to normal - except I don't get S/PDIF, but the files that wouldn't play before are now miraculously supported again.
This was the last straw for me, I'm going to upgrade to something with four or more analogue ins, and I suppose it will be USB based . . . . any recommendations?
Thanks again guys.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:10 AM   #23
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Damn...
All you needed to do - probably - was open the device settings in Windows and uncheck a box and you'd have been good to go.

For what it's worth, though mine is still installed, I bought a Gen 2 Focusrite Scarlett 18/20 a few months ago to replace it, because I wanted more inputs and outputs. It is a big improvement in terms of converters, etc. Latency isn't as good as the 2496, but that's USB versus PCI for ya.
Only recommendation I have is if you go for a Focusrite, make sure it's a generation 2 model - new ones will (should) be.
I haven't tried any other CURRENT products, so my opinion of anything else would be obsolete.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:42 AM   #24
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Hello again.

Yesterday I bought a Lexicon IO42 which looked the biz.
Turned out it's a 4-year-old piece of kit, maybe 2nd-hand or just old stock.
I won't go through the whole story, (out of date software etc..) suffice to say it will be going back to the shop!
Using it with Reaper I have the most godawful latency problems, problems I never had with the 2496.
So tomorrow my 2496 is going back in the PC (aren't I glad I set a restore Point before I made the change). Then I'll hook it all back up the way it was and count my blessings.
Thanks for all your input guys, I'll stay with this a while longer and some proper research before I "upgrade" again :/
Cheers all.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:41 AM   #25
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Sorry to hear of your woes with the 2496.

I still use mine in conjunction with an NI Komplete Audio 6.
The KA6 handles all my heavy lifting and MIDI duties, the 2496 enables me to record in Audacity and other benefits. I dont use SPDIF for anything.

There are cheaper options but as you know they can turn out to be more expensive.

Apart from the 2496, I have developed a hate for Maudio because of their rubbish keyboards and other woes.

Hope this helps,
Peace
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olemuso View Post
Hi guys.
I want to thank you all for your valuable time and experience but I'm at the end of the line with this now.
I managed to record a stereo backing track (S/PDIF), guitar (CH1) and vocal (CH2) in Reaper. It recorded flawlessly.
I then did some EQ and FX and was really pleased with the way it was coming along.
So then I Rendered a master and imported it into Sound Forge to tweak it a bit.... Sound Forge would not recognise it, wouldn't even play it.
Then I find that Media Player won't play it (doesn't support this sample rate).
Sony Vegas wouldn't read it either :/
To rub salt in the wound no program on the PC would play ANY of my music files.
So for the final time I hit 'System Restore'.
Everything is now back to normal - except I don't get S/PDIF, but the files that wouldn't play before are now miraculously supported again.
This was the last straw for me, I'm going to upgrade to something with four or more analogue ins, and I suppose it will be USB based . . . . any recommendations?
Thanks again guys.
Are you sure you're not having problems caused by reaper having exclusive control of the audio device, and so therefore not letting other applications access it?

This is a common issue if you are using at least one piece of software that uses ASIO or some other driver model that takes exclusive control of the audio interface.

So, one program at a time!

As for the noise and "bleeding", bleeding from a digital input is only possible if you have something setup wrong with the cards internal mixer. Could explain the phasey thing too, which is often the result of monitoring an input through both the audio interface mixer, and reaper, at the same time.

Post a picture of the various mixer pages on the m-audio control panel. I've a feeling you've got something really basic wrong.

As for getting another interface, the Focusrite Scarlett 2nd gen interfaces are good value, and seem to work well. If you want to spend more, RME is the easy answer.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olemuso View Post
...
So for the final time I hit 'System Restore'.
Everything is now back to normal - except I don't get S/PDIF, but the files that wouldn't play before are now miraculously supported again.
Here's the thing. This proves this was purely a software issue. That you could restore your system from a backup clone means the root cause is not hardware.

It could very well be that a driver for this unit creates a conflict that is beyond the ability of Windows to resolve. (For a completely made up example.) On the other hand, this could be a setup issue and a common thing you have to work around in Windows. If that's the scenario, spending money will not fix it.

I'd try getting to the bottom of this.

Try the various options for interface control (Reaper vs. 3rd party audio app).
Try different clocking options if there's a choice.
For example, patching into a SPDIF input requires either clocking off that SPDIF input or syncing the SPDIF output device to another master clock. Which did you try?

Did you maybe forget to switch your clock around when you connected the SPDIF input? I don't see a word of clock discussion above (forgive the pun).
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:25 PM   #28
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Frankly, right back at the start of this process, the first priority should have been making sure the audio interface mixer, and reaper audio preferences were both set correctly. Too many random actions and not enough methodical problem solving. Randomly running system restores is NOT the way to approach these issues.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
Frankly, right back at the start of this process, the first priority should have been making sure the audio interface mixer, and reaper audio preferences were both set correctly. Too many random actions and not enough methodical problem solving. Randomly running system restores is NOT the way to approach these issues.
And yet, NONE of your posts in this thread have offered ANYTHING that hasn't already been said.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:37 AM   #30
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?? The point is that the OP most likely could have had his problems solved by having both the reaper audio preferences and the M-Audio interface mixer both configured correctly. That this hasn't happened is mostly down to confusion from his end, and also a not quite specific enough statement of what he needs to do and not quite specific enough explanation as to why from our end.

Did anyone ask for a picture of the various mixer tabs in his M-Audio control panel? Did he provide one anyway because he understood that that would be a very good first step to allow people with a bit more experience to look for obvious problems?

What is your point? Exactly what is it you think I was trying to say?

He shouldn't have been running system restores before he made sure that the basic settings were correct.

I'm not criticizing the advice given by others, just trying to guide him into trying the right things, and giving us the necessary information to help him.

Do you know how he has the audio interface mixer set up?

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Old 10-12-2017, 03:49 AM   #31
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Apologies, Phil. I should stay away from the 'net, until I've had sufficient caffiene and nicotine, I guess.

I actually agree with you, as it happens, but there have been many threads recently, where, it seems, no one can be arsed to help and/or instead of helping the reply is 'throw money at it', especially where it's obvious to anyone who actually reads the thread that the Ops don't have money to throw around...
Again, apologies - wrong place, wrong time.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:17 AM   #32
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Hey, it's all good. With the odd exception, everyone in the compatibility forum is either trying to explain a problem, a solution, or what it is that they need the op to do and communicate to determine the nature of the problem to be able to explain possible solutions.


Well, to be realistic, it's mostly spending days waiting for the op to not try all of what you said, or exactly what you said, or tell you exactly they saw when they tried the thing you said, or to try something else that complicates everything, while you're still trying to figure out if they have the mute button pushed.

Or something like that.

Even better when you get no response for 6 months, followed by a new thread complaining about the same problem, and how nobody will help you.

"It still doesn't work! Why doesn't it work? And why don't I get free technical support here? THIS SUCKS!"

"So, did you check that mute button?"


"er.... ok, I don't need any help, I got it sorted.. See you in 6 months for another thread I will start but not reply to."


Lol, is it just me going nuts, or is that basically how things work? What's the go with that?

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Old 10-13-2017, 01:07 AM   #33
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LOL.
I crossed the line from 'whippersnapper' to 'old git' this year (50)...
My 'favourites' are the 'I'm too lazy to...' threads.
You know the ones -
The answer's in the manual.
I want to make music without ever learning to do anything musical.
I can't be arsed to lift my mobile phone from my desk to my head - shortcut!
Will YOU google it for me.

A doozie, as they say over there, was the one about, some guitarist records forty tracks in a billion dollar studio using the most convoluted process known to man. How can I replicate that in 'my studio' (bedroom), using a cheap guitar, 2i2 and free plugins?

Bah humbug!
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:39 AM   #34
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Hello again.

My, how this thread has gone - it's become quite entertaining.
I want to thank you all for chipping in.
One poster is correct - I don't have money to throw about, if I did I wouldn't still be using a 2496.
Some FAQ for you.

I've used the 2496 successfully for years usng Windows XP Pro. But I never got the SP/DIF to work. Why? probably because I wasn't really overly desperate to get it working.

A couple of years ago I got a new PC with Windows 10 and found to my delight that my 2496 still worked, albeit with the Win 7 drivers.
I find that the mixer etc using the Win7 drivers is different from what I had in Win XP. I understood that better.

Anyway, I've been very happy with it until a few weeks ago when I invited someone round to record with me - keyboard, guitar, vocal. I wanted each on a separate track for the sake of editing, and that's when I tried to get the S/PDIF going, got nowhere and came here.

You guys all came up with some great info and tips but it didn't help me fully.
The nearest I got was - I was able to record up to 4 individual tracks using Analogue1, Analogue2, Digi1, Digi2. I was chuffed. But . . . . When I tried playback nothing worked . . . Reaper would not budge off it's starting point and nothing else would play any of the tracks I'd made (Sound Forge, Media Player etc). I did spend some time faffing about with settings and in the end gave up, used System Restore and got back to where I started.
I did my little recording session using:
Analogue1 panned left = guitar
Analogue2 panned right = keyboard
Analogue 1+2 panned centre
This gave me something to work with and it came out OK.
As this was a one-off I decided not to lose any more sleep over it - for now at any rate.
I have a lot going on in my life at the moment and sorting this out is now pretty low on my list of priorities so please, don't knock yourselves out on my behalf.

I answer to another poster - I did actually take screen shots of the various tabs in the Delta mixer but didn't get round to posting them - sorry.

Once again, thanks all for your input. I'm putting it to bed now whilst I wait life in general to improve somewhat, then maybe, just maybe I'll look at it again.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:48 AM   #35
serr
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I still haven't seen mention of sample rate clock source settings. The transport refusing to move and digital channels going silent are the most common symptoms of forgetting to set your master clock correctly for your current system configuration.

One master sample rate clock for all digital devices in a system. That's the rule and there are no exceptions. The stuff just sits there stubbornly silent (or worse) if you don't.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:32 AM   #36
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I have no idea what you mean. Here are the screenshots I took. Must be nice to know what you're talking about - just don't expect everyone else to understand.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Delta-01.jpg (51.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Delta-02.jpg (23.6 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg Delta-03.jpg (30.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Delta-04.jpg (41.5 KB, 22 views)
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:09 AM   #37
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olemuso View Post
I have no idea what you mean. Here are the screenshots I took. Must be nice to know what you're talking about - just don't expect everyone else to understand.
This is one of the first things to learn and connect correctly in any digital system. You need to understand this.

Digital 101:
Digitized audio is sampled x times per second. (eg 44.1k times per second at a sample rate of 44.1k) There's a clock that ticks at that rate. When you connect multiple digital devices together, you need to pick one of them for the master clock. You can only have one master clock running and everything else sync'd to that or the devices drift and shut off their I/O when the sample streams don't line up anymore.

You are connecting a 2nd digital device to a digital input. This gives you two choices for sync'ing to a single clock. Either sending sync (either over a word clock cable or a digital audio connection) to the SPDIF device so it's running off the 2496's clock. Or setting the 2496 to sync off the SPDIF input instead of its internal clock (see your 4th screen shot).

You have your 2496's clock set to internal and you were trying to connect a SPDIF input from a device not sync'd to it! Either change this clock source setting or sync the SPDIF device to the 2496.

Changing the clock setting is easy obviously. You would want to hook up extra cables and go the other way if you determined the 2496 clock had less jitter (ie better specs) and improved how your output DAC sounded vs. the SPDIF device's clock.
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Last edited by serr; 10-13-2017 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:13 AM   #38
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Yeah thanx :/ I'll have a thnk about it.
I understand sampling and sample rates. (Used to use an Akai sampler)
I understand locking a clock. (Used to service Prestel terminals)
I just don't understand how I can do it using this gear. (Being over 70 seems to have slowed down the grey matter).
What I am using is a cheap analogue to digital convertor.
I shove analogue stereo in and a single 75 Ohm cable out which goes to the 2496 digital IN.
Do I have to have it synced externally for recording and then internally for playback?
There is only one output from the D/A convertor (obviously stereo digital) and no other inputs apart from a stereo analogue pair, so I wouldn't be able to get IT to recognise the clock from the 2496, or is that not relevant?

Ta again.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #39
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You have two boxes each with their own sets of AD and DA converters and their own sample rate clocks'.

If you want to connect them together digitally and shuttle a stream of ones and zeros over that SPDIF connection from one to the other, you need to pick one of them for clock master and make the appropriate connections and then software switch selection of the clock source.

Easiest:
Connect the SPDIF device to the 2496 SpDIF input and then select the SPDIF input' instead of 'internal' for the clock source. (See your screen shot #4.)
The SPDIF device is furthest upstream. So make it the clock.

The alternate is to supply clock from the 2496 to the SPDIF unit to sync them that way. Then, since they're in sync, you can just connect the SPDIF connection and it will just work. This requires another cable at least. (Or, if that SPDIF device has no digital input or word clock input then this is not even an option. You would have no choice but the first option.)


You're very very close here and you don't need a new interface.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:27 PM   #40
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Thanks again.
The external a/d con has only the following . . .
IN - L & R analogue and power
OUT - Coaxial (digi out) and a Toslink connector
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