Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER OS X Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2017, 01:10 AM   #1
JamesG5454
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1
Default Reaper's CPU usage Exponentially Higher Than Other DAWs?

Hi There -

Here are my specs -
Mac Pro (Early 2009)
Dual Quad Core Intel Xeon - 2 X 2.93
24GB 1066 MHz Ram
SSD Startup Disk

Issue: Reaper's CPU usage is exponentially higher than other DAWs with the same project setup (Bitwig, Ableton, Studio One, and Cubase) ? I feel like I have clicked and unclicked every parameter that relates to Reaper's processing engine, and yet nothing seems to have a large effect on the CPU usage.

Question: Does anyone have an idea of what could be causing the issue. Or has anyone been able to tweak the preferences within Reaper so it functions efficiently on an old Mac Pro? If so could you possibly share the settings?

Thanks for any help you can provide,
JamesG5454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 07:27 AM   #2
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,438
Default

Hey that's my Mac Pro.

I haven't found a way to max this out with audio work yet. I did have a settings issue a few years ago that I solved. I was hitting the wall with a project that was over 200 tracks and just as many plugins.

Hyperthreading off (Reaper prefers to manage its own threads)
Set number of audio processing threads from 1 to 8 (the physical number of CPU cores)

I use some 3rd party plugins that it turns out are not compatible with Reaper's Anticipative fx processing feature. I disable this for any track with one of those plugins inserted. Do NOT disable AfxP globally in preferences though! Only per track for incompatible plugins.

Now there's no back wall. I can run mixes with stupid track counts and hundreds of hungry plugins. It took some screwing around to figure this out because any project smaller than that ringer that came along shows no signs of trouble even with some completely wrong settings. I was running live sound with a low buffer for < 11ms round trip latency with 36 live input channels for a couple years before correcting those settings and never had a glitch there. (FYI I run a 1024 sample block size for headroom for studio work where there's no live monitoring.)


I do understand there are a few modern MIDI instrument plugins that can bring even an 8 core i7 to its knees. I don't play with MIDI instrument stuff so I'm out of the loop for that.


What are you trying to run?
__________________
Mac Pro 8x3.33GHz i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD(OS, apps), 3x2TB 7200 HD(data); MacBook Pro 2.8GHz, 6GB, 128GB SSD HD(OS, apps), 750GB 7200 HD(data); 2xTrue Precision 8; Apogee AD-16; 2xMOTU 828mk3, Evolution UC-33e; Faderport; WiRanger, iPad & the analog mixer has retired
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:25 AM   #3
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 6,724
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG5454 View Post

Issue: Reaper's CPU usage is exponentially higher than other DAWs
How are you measuring it? And are you actually having some audible problems (skipping, glitches etc) due to the assumed high CPU use?
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:35 AM   #4
JayJSE2
Human being with feelings
 
JayJSE2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Hyperthreading off (Reaper prefers to manage its own threads)
Is this an option inside Reaper, or for the whole of macOS? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

And how can you tell whether plugins are compatible with anticipative fx or not?
JayJSE2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:42 AM   #5
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 6,724
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJSE2 View Post
And how can you tell whether plugins are compatible with anticipative fx or not?
If the plugins use external DSP hardware like the UAD or TC plugins, then it won't work. Occasionally there have also been problems with plugins that run on the CPU, but it just has to be found out on a case by case basis. (Basically, if the plugins work when doing faster than realtime renders, they should work with the anticipative processing too.)
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:57 AM   #6
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJSE2 View Post
Is this an option inside Reaper, or for the whole of macOS? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Hyperthreading is a firmware level setting and you can access it through the following command in the Terminal:

sudo nvram SMT=0

To re-enable hyperthreading, use the command:

sudo nvram -d SMT

Changes take place on a reboot . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJSE2 View Post
And how can you tell whether plugins are compatible with anticipative fx or not?
The usual telltale is crashy behavior (acting like the machine is maxed out) but Activity Monitor shows nowhere near maxed out (not even a single core). Sometimes you DO see increased CPU use too but when you know it shouldn't be expected.

When that happens, go and disable AfxP on that track. 9 out of 10 times that clears it up. I find Universal Audio and many Waves plugins are notorious for crashing AfxP.


PS. Sanity check with the basics:

What are you controlling sample rate and block size for the system with? The Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page? (Boxes checked and values entered.) or some other audio app or control panel app (Boxes unchecked to allow/force that in the Reaper page.)

You're not running different sample rate sources in the same project and live sample rate converting? (Makes for high CPU use.)
__________________
Mac Pro 8x3.33GHz i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD(OS, apps), 3x2TB 7200 HD(data); MacBook Pro 2.8GHz, 6GB, 128GB SSD HD(OS, apps), 750GB 7200 HD(data); 2xTrue Precision 8; Apogee AD-16; 2xMOTU 828mk3, Evolution UC-33e; Faderport; WiRanger, iPad & the analog mixer has retired
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:12 AM   #7
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 6,724
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You're not running different sample rate sources in the same project and live sample rate converting? (Makes for high CPU use.)
Especially if the resampling quality option is set needlessly high...
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 12:42 AM   #8
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

about the Buffering Setting, I found better result if I change the "Media Buffer Size" : default is 1200, and I set to 4000.

But my Mac pro is not the same, then you have to check.

After, the biggest difference is about the Hyper-threading. If i don't turn it off before loading Reaper, I have bad performances (clic and drop very soon).

With those to settings, I have the same capabilities (maybe more) than what I had few month ago with Logic Pro. Excepting the fact that Reaper is more stable and never crash.
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com

Last edited by Arpegia; 10-14-2017 at 12:48 AM.
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 12:46 AM   #9
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Hyperthreading is a firmware level setting and you can access it through the following command in the Terminal:

sudo nvram SMT=0

To re-enable hyperthreading, use the command:

sudo nvram -d SMT

Changes take place on a reboot . . .
I don't like to use the terminal (I never use it) . It easier to turn off hyper threading with (Apple store Free ) Xcode (instruments) You load it, go to preference, turn hyper threading off and that's all :-)
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #10
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I don't like to use the terminal (I never use it) . It easier to turn off hyper threading with (Apple store Free ) Xcode (instruments) You load it, go to preference, turn hyper threading off and that's all :-)
The Terminal is a pretty important and useful utility. It's not something to avoid! You'll have to reset hyperthreading back off after a restart with the preference setting. The terminal command sticks until you change it back.

The media buffer setting needs to be that high running from a SSD? That's odd. You should be able to run that at 200ms with a SSD. I keep mine at 600ms for faster seeking for editing (I'm impatient).

What block size are you running? Are you doing low latency needing live sound work or live performance through MIDI instrument plugins? Or are you just recording and mixing? This is the biggest deal setting. Low latency settings for example, limit your processing headroom. If you inadvertently set this low when you weren't actually running live sound it would be like trying to drive on the highway in first gear.
__________________
Mac Pro 8x3.33GHz i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD(OS, apps), 3x2TB 7200 HD(data); MacBook Pro 2.8GHz, 6GB, 128GB SSD HD(OS, apps), 750GB 7200 HD(data); 2xTrue Precision 8; Apogee AD-16; 2xMOTU 828mk3, Evolution UC-33e; Faderport; WiRanger, iPad & the analog mixer has retired
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:43 AM   #11
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
What block size are you running? Are you doing low latency needing live sound work or live performance through MIDI instrument plugins? Or are you just recording and mixing? This is the biggest deal setting. Low latency settings for example, limit your processing headroom. If you inadvertently set this low when you weren't actually running live sound it would be like trying to drive on the highway in first gear.
I only compose music for film with virtual instruments. It's why I am oblige to setup my block size at 512. I need to be able to change anything all the time. In my setting, I can have big session with 50 virtual instruments, 120 Plugins, nearly 10 Acustica Plugins and Titanium3B on the Master Bus.

I never found any possibility to get better performances.
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:02 AM   #12
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I only compose music for film with virtual instruments. It's why I am oblige to setup my block size at 512. I need to be able to change anything all the time. In my setting, I can have big session with 50 virtual instruments, 120 Plugins, nearly 10 Acustica Plugins and Titanium3B on the Master Bus.

I never found any possibility to get better performances.
OK, so no live work. You want to set the block size to max in such a case for processing headroom.

Are you controlling the block size from the Reaper preferences/Audio/Device page (box next to block size checked and value entered in samples)? Or with a different audio app or control panel app (box next to block size in Reaper unchecked to disable it)? And if so, what app?

Did you try a 1024 sample block size or higher yet?
__________________
Mac Pro 8x3.33GHz i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD(OS, apps), 3x2TB 7200 HD(data); MacBook Pro 2.8GHz, 6GB, 128GB SSD HD(OS, apps), 750GB 7200 HD(data); 2xTrue Precision 8; Apogee AD-16; 2xMOTU 828mk3, Evolution UC-33e; Faderport; WiRanger, iPad & the analog mixer has retired
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 02:13 PM   #13
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
OK, so no live work. You want to set the block size to max in such a case for processing headroom.

Are you controlling the block size from the Reaper preferences/Audio/Device page (box next to block size checked and value entered in samples)? Or with a different audio app or control panel app (box next to block size in Reaper unchecked to disable it)? And if so, what app?

Did you try a 1024 sample block size or higher yet?
I set the block size from Reaper preferences. I don't have other solution because I don't use external audio card. I use internal core audio (which is faster) and take the digital optical output for monitoring.

About 1024 sample block or higher, it doesn't change anything except the latency. Because I use some Acustica plugins which request lots of CPU, I've tried 1024 , 2048 and 4096, but unfortunately (and I don't know why) it doesn't change anything.
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 07:37 PM   #14
JayJSE2
Human being with feelings
 
JayJSE2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Hyperthreading is a firmware level setting and you can access it through the following command in the Terminal:
Thanks! But before I go ahead and do it, how does turning it off affect the rest of mac os and any other programs running on it?
JayJSE2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:51 PM   #15
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJSE2 View Post
Thanks! But before I go ahead and do it, how does turning it off affect the rest of mac os and any other programs running on it?
Good question. I was anxious about that too. It's why I prefer to turn it off manually with Xcode, because when you restart your Mac it goes back to the initial setting.
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 07:24 AM   #16
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I set the block size from Reaper preferences. I don't have other solution because I don't use external audio card. I use internal core audio (which is faster) and take the digital optical output for monitoring.

About 1024 sample block or higher, it doesn't change anything except the latency. Because I use some Acustica plugins which request lots of CPU, I've tried 1024 , 2048 and 4096, but unfortunately (and I don't know why) it doesn't change anything.
OK. Maybe those plugins need that much CPU power? But this is a mighty powerful machine to be experiencing that with.

Did you try disabling Anticipative fx Processing for any track with one of these plugins inserted on it? Some 3rd party plugins are not compatible with AfxP. (Don't disable AfxP globally in preferences. Only per track as needed.)

Is the CPU use truly high? Do you see a core maxing out in Activity Monitor?

The block size. Some interfaces only support a max 1024 sample block size. The controls aren't grayed out like you might want for that. Instead you're left to figure that out by trial and error. If you see no change over 1024 samples or it gets worse, that might be the cause. Just pointing that out even though it doesn't help.

Just to make sure there wasn't any miscommunication here can you post screen shots of Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device and /Audio/Buffering pages?


That's all I've got so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
Good question. I was anxious about that too. It's why I prefer to turn it off manually with Xcode, because when you restart your Mac it goes back to the initial setting.
Fair enough. Just wanted to mention the other option.
__________________
Mac Pro 8x3.33GHz i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD(OS, apps), 3x2TB 7200 HD(data); MacBook Pro 2.8GHz, 6GB, 128GB SSD HD(OS, apps), 750GB 7200 HD(data); 2xTrue Precision 8; Apogee AD-16; 2xMOTU 828mk3, Evolution UC-33e; Faderport; WiRanger, iPad & the analog mixer has retired
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 01:02 AM   #17
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: PARIS-Bruxelles
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
OK. Maybe those plugins need that much CPU power? But this is a mighty powerful machine to be experiencing that with.

Did you try disabling Anticipative fx Processing for any track with one of these plugins inserted on it? Some 3rd party plugins are not compatible with AfxP. (Don't disable AfxP globally in preferences. Only per track as needed.)

Is the CPU use truly high? Do you see a core maxing out in Activity Monitor?

The block size. Some interfaces only support a max 1024 sample block size. The controls aren't grayed out like you might want for that. Instead you're left to figure that out by trial and error. If you see no change over 1024 samples or it gets worse, that might be the cause. Just pointing that out even though it doesn't help.

Just to make sure there wasn't any miscommunication here can you post screen shots of Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device and /Audio/Buffering pages?.
This morning I try to disable Anticipative FX but it's a disaster. Acustica Plugins really need it. About block Size, as I explain, I don't use any interface. Only the internal Core audio. And to avoid miscommunication I attach screen shots of my settings.

Thanks for your time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Buffering Screen Shot.jpg (61.2 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg Device Screen shot.jpg (60.4 KB, 23 views)
__________________
Mac Pro 6.1 (Sierra) 12 Cores - 64Gb Ram - 500 Gb int.SSD - Slave Mac Pro 6.1 - 6 Cores - 64Gb Ram 250Gb int.SSD - Ethernet Link VEP Pro - Focusrite Clarett 8preX.
www.arpegiamusic.com
Arpegia is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.