Old 11-03-2017, 10:36 AM   #81
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You know what'd be even better than item-integrated Melodyne Pitch Editing? Area Selection, so that copy/paste doesn't cause panic attacks and arteries to rupture each time it's attempted.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:48 AM   #82
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Way to offtopic, bro.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:56 AM   #83
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Way to offtopic, bro.
Kinda, but the lunacy of itemizing pitch-correction when copy/paste of said items feels like a game of Windows 3.1 Minesweeper...
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:58 AM   #84
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Kinda, but the lunacy of itemizing pitch-correction when copy/paste of said items feels like a game of Windows 3.1 Minesweeper...
yes ferropop, but that sentence could be applied for almost every topic on requests .. imo
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:00 AM   #85
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Can someone explain what the copy paste issue is? I'm always up for cool new ways of working!
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:01 AM   #86
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Can someone explain what the copy paste issue is? I'm always up for cool new ways of working!
julian might explain you with some gifs :P

edit: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=193121

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Old 11-03-2017, 12:53 PM   #87
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Wouldn't "fix the broken itemless envelope copy/paste" be more accurate and simpler to get the point across. When I saw "area selection" I was like WTF, I select areas all the time
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:58 PM   #88
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Wouldn't "fix the broken itemless envelope copy/paste" be more accurate and simpler to get the point across. When I saw "area selection" I was like WTF, I select areas all the time
Not sure what the actual discussion is but "area selection" means selecting both horizontally and vertically IIRC. Let's say you wanted to select 1:00 to 1:20 (Horz) for the middle 10 tracks/items (Vert). Then copy that selected "area" and paste it somewhere else.

I'm positive Nuendo had this when I used it years ago - nice feature when it is needed - ah, looks like the .gif sort of explains it.
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:21 PM   #89
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but "area selection" means selecting both horizontally and vertically IIRC
Not just that - but it also means non-contiguous selections. Which is a biggie.
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:35 PM   #90
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Not just that - but it also means non-contiguous selections. Which is a biggie.
Non-contiguous - the gall!
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:46 PM   #91
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of course non continuous would be better, but a simpler version would be enough for working.
Because it is so fast to copy, if something non continuous needs to be done you just repeat the process for each non continuous part, and it won't take so much time and are exceptions. Imo
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:48 PM   #92
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Not to mention: non-contiguous area selection would pretty much break all native, SWS and script actions that rely on time selections (or they would only work on the first selection made, not on any subsequent ones).
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Old 11-03-2017, 01:55 PM   #93
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Wouldn't "fix the broken itemless envelope copy/paste" be more accurate and simpler to get the point across. When I saw "area selection" I was like WTF, I select areas all the time
Yes the name is a bit ambiguous, but the thing is that it is a feature that works for everything. In cubase it called "Range Selection".What you select and "highlighted" is what you get and do whatever we want : delete, move, copy
either items or envelopes, big or tinny selection works the same. It simplifies a LOT this process and very intuitive.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:09 PM   #94
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Non-contiguous - the gall!
Ye old "Range Selection" chestnut / rabbit hole.

"Edit Filter" is probably the best way to define it because it's near universal, using a visual highlighted range as an edit filter, that whatever edit is being performed only happens in the highlighted range(s).

Not that Reaper actually *needs* it as a literal thing to edit efficiently, we all know better than that. More that, as much as anything else, it's a common and recognized standard of sorts across just about every kind of software application that edits objects on screen and only a few apps ever deviated from it.

It just happened to be the case that Reaper was initially modeled after one of those few who deviated from it, Vegas.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:13 PM   #95
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Not that Reaper actually *needs* it as a literal thing to edit efficiently, we all know better than that.
of course this is your opinion which unfortunately i don't share.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:15 PM   #96
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of course this is your opinion which i don't share.
Not my opinion tbh, more an objective observation. It's the opinion of many people who edit daily in Reaper without it. You can discuss that with them and I suppose and try to convince them that they actually aren't editing efficiently without it but I'll personally stay out of that conversation.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:18 PM   #97
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Not my opinion tbh, more an objective observation. It's the opinion of many people who edit daily in Reaper without it. You can discuss that with them and I suppose and try to convince them that they actually aren't editing efficiently without it but I'll personally stay out of that conversation.
if i was editing media items all day i would not need too
anyway... i don't care ..
Since day 1 there are people which use reaper to edit , .. any feature done after that would not be necessary then

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Old 11-04-2017, 01:21 PM   #98
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so you speaking for a group?
Lol. Not really. See the phrase "objective observation" from my last reply.

All I'm saying is that there are quite obviously people running professional studios editing and getting it done. I assume that if editing was "not efficient", the clients would stop coming or start complaining about edits taking too long... which runs up the hourly clock, and makes the invoice bigger.

That's all I was saying. I was not challenging your personal view of all that.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:25 PM   #99
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Lol. Not really. See the phrase "objective observation" from my last reply.

All I'm saying is that there are quite obviously people running professional studios editing and getting it done. I assume that if editing was "not efficient", the clients would stop coming or start complaining about edits taking too long... which runs up the hourly clock, and makes the invoice bigger.

That's all I was saying. I was not challenging your personal view of all that.
peace peace!
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:56 PM   #100
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peace peace!
No problem. Staying out of the Reaper lounge helps to see both sides of everything, and not always want to debate everything people here disagree about.

Good for the soul... well... for mine anyway.
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:51 PM   #101
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No problem. Staying out of the Reaper lounge helps to see both sides of everything, and not always want to debate everything people here disagree about.

Good for the soul... well... for mine anyway.
The issue is this - Reaper attracts both "traditional" mixers (people recording live instruments, editing them, comping, mixing) as well as modern "producers". My whole thing from the moment Automation Items was announced, was that this SUPER COOL feature would attract the producer crowd but instantly turn them away because without Area Selection this is a disaster.

Please take a look at this super simple (and Extremely common!) situation.

ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.

...now throw Automation Items into this mess.

This is just the tiniest example of just how flawed the current duplication is in Reaper Again, Reaper destroys Ableton in a million other ways, but this is Such core functionality that is going to drive the new crop away immediately.

I just want Reaper to be the best it can be!!! This would get it 99% of the way there.
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:16 AM   #102
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Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.
To me (never having worked with this kind of features up till now), this behavior seems obviously undesirable and not appropriately usable, without me even ever having touched Ableton,

So IMHO this should be discussed (as the new release of Reaper's is just heavily worked on) in the Pre-Realease forum and not here, as it's completely off-topic in this thread.

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Old 11-05-2017, 06:41 AM   #103
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I saw that image in the other thread. I didn't ask then but let me ask now... while certainly not dismissing your point...

How does cutting the volume automation in your image kill a reverb tail, unless the sound sustains long after the midi note in the one clip ends? Or are you more suggesting that if it does that with an automation item that's controlling an aux send envelope it would? If that's the point, yeah, that makes more sense.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:47 AM   #104
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I saw that image in the other thread. I didn't ask then but let me ask now... while certainly not dismissing your point...

How does cutting the volume automation in your image kill a reverb tail, unless the sound sustains long after the midi note in the one clip ends? Or are you more suggesting that if it does that with an automation item that's controlling an aux send envelope it would? If that's the point, yeah, that makes more sense.
Hey Lawrence, I was trying to create an example that broke as many things as possible, this is just a small list.

Instead of getting specific, my point is this -- just give us a Copy tool that pastes EXACTLY what was copied, instead of creating all these weird problems. Let us select an area of stuff and paste that area of stuff, and it work properly. Literally copy and paste is the simplest possible concept in a DAW and it's broken right now.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:50 AM   #105
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To me (never having worked with this kind of features up till now), this behavior seems obviously undesirable and not appropriately usable, without me even ever having touched Ableton,

So IMHO this should be discussed (as the new release of Reaper's is just heavily worked on) in the Pre-Realease forum and not here, as it's completely off-topic in this thread.

-Michael
Hey Michael, it sort of is on topic though. ARA is an item-based feature, so before implementing that we should probably fix item-based copy and paste (of all things!). Imagine the nightmare of now having ARA and not being able to properly duplicate the vocals you just tuned.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:40 AM   #106
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I check back here every few months, hoping that something, anything might have changed in the ARA-in-Reaper stakes. Might I finally be able to switch from Studio One to the DAW I actally want to use? Is there a glimmer of hope that could happen in the next several years, even? Ooh look, a new thread about a Kickstarter for ARA!

Then I see that nothing's changed and that Justin's posted another dismissive answer or two about the topic since the last dismissive answer I saw (in understand why he's being dismissive, but it doesn't make me any less sad). I go back to S1, disheartened, with my tail tucked between my legs. The cycle repeats.

It's kind of maddening being one feature implementation away from your perfect DAW editing workflow but knowing that feature implementation will just never come. I know for many this isn't even a concern but I know I speak for a whole lot of users for whom this would be the final puzzle piece.

I, uh, guess that concludes my resigned personal note on the situation.


While I'm here, that copy-and-paste-everything-in-a-selection-exactly feature should absolutely be implemented, seems like a no brainer.
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