Old 12-14-2017, 09:42 AM   #1
midiman007
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Default Block Size 192 bug

Focus rite pro 40.
I can not set my block size to 192.

If I set the block size to 192 it goes to 128.

If I set the block size to 256 it goes to 256.

If I set my block size to 128 it goes to 128.

This bug was two versions back. Please do not responded that 192 is an invalid block size. I can set it in Cubase and Cakewalk.
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Last edited by midiman007; 11-29-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:55 PM   #2
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Any particular reason why you want to change your block size at all & also why would you want to change it to what for Reaper is a non-standard division?
What you can or cant do in Cake walk Cubase or anything else is not really relevant to any other DAW, of course.

Are you SURE you aren't confusing THIS block size setting with the ASIO buffer setting?

Might be worth clicking on the ASIO Configuration window and using the focusrite utility that opes there.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:23 PM   #3
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In some configs that block size will control the sound card buffer setting for you ("request" is a key term here). That being said, the sound card may be rejecting the request so it would be a smart idea to click the ASIO configuration button and change it in the sound card CP, especially with it flipping back which is very likely the sound card saying no for whatever reason. Chances are it may flip back when doing it directly on the SC due to this...

It's also possible the option to give Reaper exclusive control of the sound card isn't enabled, which means something else could have the SC and blocksize causing reaper to be told no. That could explain the difference between DAWs aka whether they have exclusive access or not. That doesn't however explain the ability to change to other sizes but something is still fishy here.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Any particular reason why you want to change your block size at all & also why would you want to change it to what for Reaper is a non-standard division?
What you can or cant do in Cake walk Cubase or anything else is not really relevant to any other DAW, of course.

Are you SURE you aren't confusing THIS block size setting with the ASIO buffer setting?

Might be worth clicking on the ASIO Configuration window and using the focusrite utility that opes there.
Ok let me understand or restate this when I change the block size in reaper
it changes my buffer size. Is block size different than buffer size?

If so how to I get reaper to set the buffer size to 192.
Since when I change the block size it changes the buffer size.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:40 AM   #5
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Block size = buffer size.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Block size = buffer size.
Thank you EvilDragon for the info and confirming what I thought was correct.
Now is 192 a valid block size? I mean I have always used it and now it does not work.
128 is to low for me and 256 is to high?
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:47 PM   #7
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Getting very confused. Are we talking about you ASIO buffer here or the core buffer?

For grins I tried changing my core buffer from 256 to 192 and... nothing else happened. My ASIO buffer stayed at 32.
So what am I not getting here, ED?
Is this just confusion over terminology or are you guys talking about something completely different?
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:14 PM   #8
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Block size in Reaper is your I/O buffer. This is the time interval you give the computer to process the audio. The direct latency control. And if the computer isn't able to process everything in that window, you get clicks and pops from the dropped samples.

Aside: There is also a 'media buffer' (as it's called in Reaper) that is a buffer for playback of prerecorded audio from your hard drive. This is independent from the block size.

The block size is your latency setting and of concern for live performance and live sound.

Ultimately the driver(s) for your connected audio interface(s) have the final say as to what block size settings they will work with the system with. Usually any multiple of 32 samples is valid with 32 samples being the lowest. Often the max setting is 1024 samples before the buffering gets in the way of itself and snowballs into even more CPU cycles.

I've used a setting of 192 samples before for that little extra headroom for a live sound system with MOTU audio interfaces. (I was still making 10ms RTL and good with that.)

If it refuses to let you enter that, your audio interface driver may be restricting it. Either that or another app is requesting a different block size and conflicting.

You have the choice of controlling this from the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page (check the boxes to enable the controls), or a different audio app (uncheck those boxes to disable control from Reaper). Maybe try it both ways and see which one plays nice.
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Old 12-16-2017, 06:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Block size in Reaper is your I/O buffer. This is the time interval you give the computer to process the audio. The direct latency control. And if the computer isn't able to process everything in that window, you get clicks and pops from the dropped samples.

Aside: There is also a 'media buffer' (as it's called in Reaper) that is a buffer for playback of prerecorded audio from your hard drive. This is independent from the block size.

The block size is your latency setting and of concern for live performance and live sound.

Ultimately the driver(s) for your connected audio interface(s) have the final say as to what block size settings they will work with the system with. Usually any multiple of 32 samples is valid with 32 samples being the lowest. Often the max setting is 1024 samples before the buffering gets in the way of itself and snowballs into even more CPU cycles.

I've used a setting of 192 samples before for that little extra headroom for a live sound system with MOTU audio interfaces. (I was still making 10ms RTL and good with that.)

If it refuses to let you enter that, your audio interface driver may be restricting it. Either that or another app is requesting a different block size and conflicting.

You have the choice of controlling this from the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page (check the boxes to enable the controls), or a different audio app (uncheck those boxes to disable control from Reaper). Maybe try it both ways and see which one plays nice.
It has worked before on previous versions of Reaper, when Reaper requested the block size it has stopped working. I hope the dev's address this.
192 was a happy medium for me.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:07 PM   #10
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The ASIO specification has a configuration for this. The device can signal that it only wants block sizes that are a power of 2. So, one of two things is happening:

1. Your device is requesting block sizes as powers of 2, which REAPER respects, but other software ignores.

2. Your device is not requesting block sizes as powers of 2, but REAPER is misinterpreting the device's request.

There is a small possibility of #2. Specifically, the ASIO spec says:

Code:
granularity will hold the granularity at which buffer sizes
may differ. Usually, the buffer size will be a power of 2;
in this case, granularity will hold -1 on return
but REAPER interprets any negative granularity value as meaning "powers of 2 only." Any negative value other than -1 would not be defined in the specification. We can change this to check for -1 specifically, but I would be surprised if it made a difference in this case. I think the most likely explanation is #1.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:21 PM   #11
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Another possibility Justin thought of: did you update the device driver recently? If so, have you verified that those other applications still permit non-power-of-2 buffer sizes?
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:28 PM   #12
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Another possibility Justin thought of: did you update the device driver recently? If so, have you verified that those other applications still permit non-power-of-2 buffer sizes?
Thank you for your reply.
Still on Mix Control 3.7 I did roll back to 3.5 and it still had the issue with Reaper.
Yes Cubase up till 8 and Sonar still work as 192 block size. Not issues. Even Kontakt will run as 192 buffer size. I have not tried the new version of Cubase 8.5 or 9 since I dumped Cubase for Reaper. Reaper will work as 192 buffer size so long as Reaper dose not request the block size. I simply set the block size in Mix Cotrol and leave Request block size blank in Reaper. I know for 100 % it used to work in reaper since 192 was my settings.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midiman007 View Post
Thank you for your reply.
Still on Mix Control 3.7 I did roll back to 3.5 and it still had the issue with Reaper.
Yes Cubase up till 8 and Sonar still work as 192 block size. Not issues. Even Kontakt will run as 192 buffer size. I have not tried the new version of Cubase 8.5 or 9 since I dumped Cubase for Reaper. Reaper will work as 192 buffer size so long as Reaper dose not request the block size. I simply set the block size in Mix Cotrol and leave Request block size blank in Reaper. I know for 100 % it used to work in reaper since 192 was my settings.
I just downloaded reaper571pre12_x64-install and installed it. Set my block size to 192 and in mix control it is changing the block size 128.
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