Reaper: Import MIDI with lyrics upgrade?

thomas0906 · 01-03-2018, 11:40 PM

Hi

MIDI files are using meta Event FF 05 len xxx for lyrics.
These lyrics are track indipendent.
But there is a problem with reaper MIDI Import of lyrics:
If they are not assigned to a track MTrk, they are not loaded? and displayed.
Cubase in this case creates a track named SYSEX and put the meta events in this track. So it can be displayed in List and Score View.

Is there something hidden in reaper to import all types of lyrics?

Otherwise, would it be possible to create a functionality in reaper to decide in a pre import window, into which track reaper should place these meta events for lyrics? Only the user can decide, which is the melody track.
Or like cubase create a special track for these?
Or put them all together in track1 , if selected?

cu
thomas

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 10:10 AM

Hi

No one working with Format0 midi files and lyric meta events?

Where does reaper put those imported meta events and sysex events?

greets
thomas

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 10:18 AM

In the MIDI editor, take a look where the velocity/CC lane is. You have a dropdown menu there to choose a different type of MIDI event, and there are options for Text and Sysex.

Also, Reaper doesn't care about the number of tracks the MIDI file has - only the number of MIDI channels used.

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 10:56 AM

... but in which track reaper places the channel independent meta events?

the midi editor is assigned to a track created from a channel!

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 11:22 AM

Not sure, honestly. Could be the first one. Not sure if it goes to its own track...

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 11:35 AM

It goes into nothing if you import it into multiple tracks.
That is the problem!
But it is in a single track if you import to single track.

thomas

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 11:41 AM

Care to post one such MIDI file?

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 12:06 PM

I could post such a midi file.

If it is in a single track, is it possible to create multiple tracks within reaper from that single track? (ALL MIDI)

Result: All channel events to own tracks. Meta and SYSEX in source track?

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas0906

If it is in a single track, is it possible to create multiple tracks within reaper from that single track? (ALL MIDI)

Result: All channel events to own tracks. Meta and SYSEX in source track?

Yes, that's possible.

"Item: Explode multichannel audio or MIDI to new one-channel items"

Not sure where meta/sysex events go, though.

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 12:24 PM

I will test where the events go.

I have found a (not so good) solution:
Import MIDI in single track.
Export lyrics only from single track.
New Project: Import MIDI in multitracks.
Import lyrics in track x (melody track).

That works, but it would be better, reaper could import the lyrics in one step to multichannels.

Is there a way to contact the programmers and ask for that?

greets
thomas

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 12:26 PM

You're already (sort of) contacting them on this forum. Depends if they'll see this thread.

But I'm thinking the Explode action should suffice you.

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 12:32 PM

Explode works, but everything remains in the source track.
The lyrics are not exploded.
I would need a filter to delete all and keep only the lyrics in that track?

thomas

thomas0906 · 01-04-2018, 01:04 PM

I ve been testing the MIDI FILTER.
But it doesnt work.
Is it buggy?
It is not possible to copy and paste the meta/sysex events.
Display and select the filtered items is ok.

:-(

thomas

EvilDragon · 01-04-2018, 01:12 PM

MIDI filter is just visual.

You can copy and paste any MIDI events. You just need to select them first. Perhaps it would be easier from the Event List view?

thomas0906 · 01-05-2018, 12:11 AM

Its funny...

If you delete a note event the lyrics event is deleted too.
That doesnt work to separate the lyrics.
So export and import seems to be the only way...

thomas

juliansader · 01-05-2018, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas0906

Its funny...

If you delete a note event the lyrics event is deleted too.
That doesnt work to separate the lyrics.
So export and import seems to be the only way...

The lyrics event will only be deleted if it is also selected.

To avoid selecting text, CCs and other events when you select a note, UNcheck the toolbar button for "CC selection follows note selection".

(This option is useful when you want to move and edit notes together with their lyrics and CCs.)

juliansader · 01-05-2018, 05:22 AM

This thread raises a good point.

I think that REAPER should ask the user where the channel-less events should go when importing or exploding multi-channel MIDI tracks, with options such as:
1) into a separate track,
2) into one of the single-channel tracks,
3) into all single-channel channels,
3) into none of the tracks (the current default).

schwa · 01-05-2018, 05:32 AM

The issue is what happens to meta-events in a type 0 (single track) MIDI file when you import it by channel? I think you are correct that they are discarded.

Internally, importing channels to separate tracks runs the "explode multichannel media" action. So we will change that action to put meta-events on a separate track.

If you have a sample type 0 file with meta-events, it would be useful if you could attach it here. Thanks!

schwa · 01-05-2018, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwa

If you have a sample type 0 file with meta-events, it would be useful if you could attach it here

Or anyone ... code is done, we can put it in a build today if we can test it. I could make a sample MIDI file but I'd rather test on media that exists in the wild.

EvilDragon · 01-05-2018, 05:57 AM

I'm not sure I have any type 0 MIDI files around... but!

http://www.gnmidi.com/gnmidfmten.htm

schwa · 01-05-2018, 07:54 AM

I'd realllly rather have a file from the wild. @thomas0906 ?

thomas0906 · 01-05-2018, 08:17 AM

I can not send my testfile in public.
Give me an email adress in PM ...

EvilDragon · 01-05-2018, 08:17 AM

support at cockos dot com

Dr Bob · 01-05-2018, 09:07 AM

... and you see the great Reaper support in action again - a dev steps in, does the code and will put it into a build asap (after testing) - and then the user can install the pre-release with this fix in and use that until it's fully released in an "update" (... also the pre-releases are *usually* quite stable too)

Kudos yet again devs ...

dB

thomas0906 · 01-05-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliansader

The lyrics event will only be deleted if it is also selected.

To avoid selecting text, CCs and other events when you select a note, UNcheck the toolbar button for "CC selection follows note selection".

(This option is useful when you want to move and edit notes together with their lyrics and CCs.)

oh my god, I never took notice of this little button...
thanx so much

GREAT SUPPORT!
But where can I find the pre build version with the new code?

thomas

EvilDragon · 01-05-2018, 09:22 AM

It's not released yet. See all the subforums here, one of them has a curious title.

schwa · 01-05-2018, 10:12 AM

The new import behavior is added for the next prerelease build.

Diki Ross · 01-28-2018, 03:19 PM

This issue also affects just about any MIDI file with sysex, not just lyrics.

For instance, arranger keyboards (I use a Roland BK9) embed a TON of sysex when you export an SMF from them. Stuff like drumkit edits, EQ's, insert FX etc. are usually in a big sysex packet at the beginning of the file, then sporadically through the file (if you have different sections with different setups). When I drag and drop these into Reaper and explode to multitrack, they disappear.

No other DAW/sequencer I have ever used fails to import them no matter the SMF file format (Type 0 or 1). Why does Reaper treat Type1 and Type2 differently?

EvilDragon · 01-29-2018, 12:54 AM

This issue is fixed in current prerelease build, when 5.71 is live it will be all fine.

Code:

+ MIDI: treat type 0 files with meta-events as multichannel files on import; if configured, prompt to import meta-events and channel MIDI as separate tracks [t=201510]

Diki Ross · 02-01-2018, 03:51 PM

Awesome!

Diki Ross · 02-24-2018, 02:13 AM

Confirmed...

Thank you guys SO MUCH.

Sys-ex import with the SMF is integral to so many hardware keyboards. Until you fixed this, I was unable to edit any SMF's without losing hours of work fine tuning the file in my keyboard.

Somewhat surprised that this wasn't brought up much longer ago (and fixed), though. Doesn't anyone use sys-ex any more? LOL

Bouroki · 07-14-2020, 06:22 AM

Is it me or does this still not work properly? When importing as multi-channel, a new track is supposedly created for the meta events, but is actually empty of any meta events?! It only works when I import to single track like the OP did.

01-03-2018, 11:40 PM	#1
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	Reaper: Import MIDI with lyrics upgrade? Hi MIDI files are using meta Event FF 05 len xxx for lyrics. These lyrics are track indipendent. But there is a problem with reaper MIDI Import of lyrics: If they are not assigned to a track MTrk, they are not loaded? and displayed. Cubase in this case creates a track named SYSEX and put the meta events in this track. So it can be displayed in List and Score View. Is there something hidden in reaper to import all types of lyrics? Otherwise, would it be possible to create a functionality in reaper to decide in a pre import window, into which track reaper should place these meta events for lyrics? Only the user can decide, which is the melody track. Or like cubase create a special track for these? Or put them all together in track1 , if selected? cu thomas

01-04-2018, 10:18 AM	#3
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	In the MIDI editor, take a look where the velocity/CC lane is. You have a dropdown menu there to choose a different type of MIDI event, and there are options for Text and Sysex. Also, Reaper doesn't care about the number of tracks the MIDI file has - only the number of MIDI channels used. __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-04-2018, 11:22 AM	#5
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	Not sure, honestly. Could be the first one. Not sure if it goes to its own track... __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-04-2018, 11:35 AM	#6
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	It goes into nothing if you import it into multiple tracks. That is the problem! But it is in a single track if you import to single track. thomas Last edited by thomas0906; 01-04-2018 at 11:40 AM.

01-04-2018, 11:41 AM	#7
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	Care to post one such MIDI file? __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-04-2018, 10:10 AM	#2
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	Hi No one working with Format0 midi files and lyric meta events? Where does reaper put those imported meta events and sysex events? greets thomas

01-04-2018, 10:56 AM	#4
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	... but in which track reaper places the channel independent meta events? the midi editor is assigned to a track created from a channel!

01-04-2018, 12:06 PM	#8
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	I could post such a midi file. If it is in a single track, is it possible to create multiple tracks within reaper from that single track? (ALL MIDI) Result: All channel events to own tracks. Meta and SYSEX in source track?

01-04-2018, 12:24 PM	#10
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	I will test where the events go. I have found a (not so good) solution: Import MIDI in single track. Export lyrics only from single track. New Project: Import MIDI in multitracks. Import lyrics in track x (melody track). That works, but it would be better, reaper could import the lyrics in one step to multichannels. Is there a way to contact the programmers and ask for that? greets thomas

01-04-2018, 12:26 PM	#11
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	You're already (sort of) contacting them on this forum. Depends if they'll see this thread. But I'm thinking the Explode action should suffice you. __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-04-2018, 12:32 PM	#12
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	Explode works, but everything remains in the source track. The lyrics are not exploded. I would need a filter to delete all and keep only the lyrics in that track? thomas

01-04-2018, 01:04 PM	#13
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	I ve been testing the MIDI FILTER. But it doesnt work. Is it buggy? It is not possible to copy and paste the meta/sysex events. Display and select the filtered items is ok. :-( thomas

01-04-2018, 01:12 PM	#14
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	MIDI filter is just visual. You can copy and paste any MIDI events. You just need to select them first. Perhaps it would be easier from the Event List view? __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-05-2018, 12:11 AM	#15
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	Its funny... If you delete a note event the lyrics event is deleted too. That doesnt work to separate the lyrics. So export and import seems to be the only way... thomas

01-05-2018, 05:22 AM	#17
juliansader Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,714	This thread raises a good point. I think that REAPER should ask the user where the channel-less events should go when importing or exploding multi-channel MIDI tracks, with options such as: 1) into a separate track, 2) into one of the single-channel tracks, 3) into all single-channel channels, 3) into none of the tracks (the current default). __________________ Scripts for advanced MIDI editing \| LFO Tool for MIDI editor and envelopes Video thumbnail scripts \| ReaScriptAPI extension

01-05-2018, 05:32 AM	#18
schwa Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY Posts: 16,498	The issue is what happens to meta-events in a type 0 (single track) MIDI file when you import it by channel? I think you are correct that they are discarded. Internally, importing channels to separate tracks runs the "explode multichannel media" action. So we will change that action to put meta-events on a separate track. If you have a sample type 0 file with meta-events, it would be useful if you could attach it here. Thanks!

01-05-2018, 05:57 AM	#20
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	I'm not sure I have any type 0 MIDI files around... but! http://www.gnmidi.com/gnmidfmten.htm __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-05-2018, 07:54 AM	#21
schwa Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY Posts: 16,498	I'd realllly rather have a file from the wild. @thomas0906 ?

01-05-2018, 08:17 AM	#22
thomas0906 Human being with feelings Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 50	I can not send my testfile in public. Give me an email adress in PM ...

01-05-2018, 08:17 AM	#23
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	support at cockos dot com __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-05-2018, 09:07 AM	#24
Dr Bob Human being with feelings Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Yorkshire, UK Posts: 2,236	... and you see the great Reaper support in action again - a dev steps in, does the code and will put it into a build asap (after testing) - and then the user can install the pre-release with this fix in and use that until it's fully released in an "update" (... also the pre-releases are usually quite stable too) Kudos yet again devs ... dB

01-05-2018, 09:22 AM	#26
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	It's not released yet. See all the subforums here, one of them has a curious title. __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

01-05-2018, 10:12 AM	#27
schwa Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NY Posts: 16,498	The new import behavior is added for the next prerelease build.

01-28-2018, 03:19 PM	#28
Diki Ross Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 34	This issue also affects just about any MIDI file with sysex, not just lyrics. For instance, arranger keyboards (I use a Roland BK9) embed a TON of sysex when you export an SMF from them. Stuff like drumkit edits, EQ's, insert FX etc. are usually in a big sysex packet at the beginning of the file, then sporadically through the file (if you have different sections with different setups). When I drag and drop these into Reaper and explode to multitrack, they disappear. No other DAW/sequencer I have ever used fails to import them no matter the SMF file format (Type 0 or 1). Why does Reaper treat Type1 and Type2 differently?

01-29-2018, 12:54 AM	#29
EvilDragon Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 24,859	This issue is fixed in current prerelease build, when 5.71 is live it will be all fine. Code: + MIDI: treat type 0 files with meta-events as multichannel files on import; if configured, prompt to import meta-events and channel MIDI as separate tracks [t=201510] __________________ Edit poly aftertouch in MIDI editor! Entirely (un)dockable UI! \| Improve Render Queue!

02-01-2018, 03:51 PM	#30
Diki Ross Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 34	Awesome!

02-24-2018, 02:13 AM	#31
Diki Ross Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 34	Confirmed... Thank you guys SO MUCH. Sys-ex import with the SMF is integral to so many hardware keyboards. Until you fixed this, I was unable to edit any SMF's without losing hours of work fine tuning the file in my keyboard. Somewhat surprised that this wasn't brought up much longer ago (and fixed), though. Doesn't anyone use sys-ex any more? LOL

07-14-2020, 06:22 AM	#32
Bouroki Human being with feelings Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 79	Is it me or does this still not work properly? When importing as multi-channel, a new track is supposedly created for the meta events, but is actually empty of any meta events?! It only works when I import to single track like the OP did.

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