New Solo Behaviour (FIXED)

[ferropop]

In this scenario:

DRUMBUS:
==KICK (Send 3/4 to INST BUS)
==SNARE
...

INST BUS (Sidechain Compressor Receive 3/4 from Kick):
==BASS
==PAD
...


If I solo INST BUS, I hear the effect of the KICK sidechain. Perfect!
If I solo BASS, I DO NOT hear the effect of the KICK SIDECHAIN, even though it is a child of INST BUS.


How can I solo just BASS and hear the receives of the parent? ie, I want to hear how the pumping affects JUST the BASS, not the whole bus. This is huge for setting release times, etc.


Seeing that you can solo both the Folder and the Child and it seemingly makes no difference, that might be the way to enable the type of soloing I'm proposing. If only Child is soloed, don't process parent receives. If both Child and Parent are soloed together, process receives for both.

[Dstruct]

Confirmed (5.78 x64).

[Justin]

Soloing the bus along with its child does in fact make a difference (media on the bus) -- for what you want, you could make a child which holds the sidechain receive, and then if you want to hear just the bass with the sidechain, you would solo the bass and sidechain receive.

[Dstruct]

I think the described scenario should work without any workaround. Soloing the BASS track should allow/enable the KICK send 3/4 to the INST bus.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Justin

Soloing the bus along with its child does in fact make a difference (media on the bus) -- for what you want, you could make a child which holds the sidechain receive, and then if you want to hear just the bass with the sidechain, you would solo the bass and sidechain receive.

Thanks Justin, I have to agree though - it should (and used to) work that way natively and is a downgrade behaviour currently.

Another use case that is now not possible: printing stems through the Folder FX. Previously, you could solo the child, select the folder, and Render Track Post-Fader on the folder and you'd get the ducking printed on the render. Then move to the next child, repeat, and you end up with your stems printed with the correct ducking from the folder sc compressor. I had custom actions to do all of this super-fast that all break with this new solo behaviour...they print the other folder fx fine but don't process receives, so no ducking.

I hear you regarding Soloing Child and Folder playing the folder media -- but not sure of the logic on why the just the Child pulls receives and not the folder if they are both in-place soloed?

[Justin]

Hmm there are some other behaviors with soloed sends that I need to look at, but this might be possible (when a child track is soloed but none of the sends to it are)...

[ferropop]

Would really appreciate a closer look at this Justin, thanks! Makes sense to me that if a track is Soloed-in-Place it process sends&receives, and if Soloed-Ignore-Routing that it wouldn't. I'm happy to test this to death if it helps!

[Justin]

Give pre11 a try...

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Justin

Give pre11 a try...

Justin this works wonderfully, thank you!

For those of us processing big chunks of tracks using folders (ie. sidechain ducking, filter effects) and needing to print stems with that processing Embedded in the stems:

1. Solo the track(s) you'd like to stem.
2. Solo the folder(s) the track belongs to.
3. Select the lowest-level folder in the chain you'd like to print processing from.
4. "Render track post-fader" on that folder.

This new behaviour allows the above beautifully. Thanks Justin! Now to find a way to script the above for all selected tracks, and we have an automated "Print Stems with Folder Processing" function, which is essential for those of us doing Pop.

[D Rocks]

Thats great! I was exactly trying to do this last time to print a sidechain reverb on its own track as audio.

Ill try this when I get to do the task again. This is super practical. Thanks Justin

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

Thats great! I was exactly trying to do this last time to print a sidechain reverb on its own track as audio.

Ill try this when I get to do the task again. This is super practical. Thanks Justin

I knew there'd be others trying to do this! I'm gonna bring a request to the scripting forum, to be able to select a bunch of tracks and print each separately through parents. It's gotta be doable!

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by ferropop

I knew there'd be others trying to do this! I'm gonna bring a request to the scripting forum, to be able to select a bunch of tracks and print each separately through parents. It's gotta be doable!

Yes that would be best of all options!
Its something Ive been looking for also before joining Reaper.

This feature is going to worth alot if it can render or freeze indivudal channels including the folder FX per track, including also the sidechains affecting it.

In Cubase for example I was stuck with online CPU processing for every tracks that were linked to a sidechain in anyway so I could not render them or freeze because it didnt render the sidechains except through a master mix and it was so turn off that I never did it.

If you need help to reflect on the most logical solutions to propose please feel free to discuss it with me

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

Yes that would be best of all options!
Its something Ive been looking for also before joining Reaper.

This feature is going to worth alot if it can render or freeze indivudal channels including the folder FX per track, including also the sidechains affecting it.

In Cubase for example I was stuck with online CPU processing for every tracks that were linked to a sidechain in anyway so I could not render them or freeze because it didnt render the sidechains except through a master mix and it was so turn off that I never did it.

If you need help to reflect on the most logical solutions to propose please feel free to discuss it with me

I did it! ---



I want to share a script I just wrote (aka hacked-together from X-Raym's code lol).



Usage: select track(s) you'd like to print through parent folder, run script.

Notice the folder mute gets printed to the stem, and so does the sidechain ducking from the kick!

Let me know where it's appropriate to post this - it's surely invaluable to people working on modern pop, EDM.

[D Rocks]

Wow dude thats seems perfect. Ill have time tommorow night to test only.

If the script is running without flaws try posting it in the Q&A Tips and Tricks would be super with a short YouTube demo so people understand the use

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by ferropop

I did it! ---



I want to share a script I just wrote (aka hacked-together from X-Raym's code lol).



Usage: select track(s) you'd like to print through parent folder, run script.

Notice the folder mute gets printed to the stem, and so does the sidechain ducking from the kick!

Let me know where it's appropriate to post this - it's surely invaluable to people working on modern pop, EDM.

Hey bro can you share the macro with me please? I'm about to test these new solo behaviors

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

Hey bro can you share the macro with me please? I'm about to test these new solo behaviors

http://collabedit.com/dx73f

[D Rocks]

Wow thanks!

I'm impressed.

- Selected 5 MIDI track sent to a parent folder VSTi drum
- activated your script
= 5 new stereo tracks rendered with respective names thourgh the parent! Kick / snare / etc. one after the other without any intervention.

Thats very nice man.

Do you have alot of coding knowledge?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

Wow thanks!

I'm impressed.

- Selected 5 MIDI track sent to a parent folder VSTi drum
- activated your script
= 5 new stereo tracks rendered with respective names thourgh the parent! Kick / snare / etc. one after the other without any intervention.

Thats very nice man.

Do you have alot of coding knowledge?

I'm so glad man, I've used it so much in the past 2 days haha. Yeah like I studied both Computer Science and Music (separately) at University so there's some nice groundwork, but kind of a terrible coder lol. That was hacked together by referencing X_Raym's amazing scripts. Maybe i'll muck around more, scripting seems super powerful once you wrap your head around it.

[D Rocks]

Yes indeed!! I'm learning this and Theming right now its a big challenge and I find it fun and rewarding!

Anyways good job my friend. Let me know if you have any other advancements in your sidechain/render workflow

[Dstruct]

NOT FIXED in 5.79!


Soloing only the BASS track will disble the "1/2 -> 3/4" routing from KICK track to INST BUS.


See project https://www.dropbox.com/s/77igdv5243...o-579.zip?dl=0

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

NOT FIXED in 5.79!


Soloing only the BASS track will disble the "1/2 -> 3/4" routing from KICK track to INST BUS.


See project https://www.dropbox.com/s/77igdv5243...o-579.zip?dl=0

Yeah I think that's expected, if you want to enable the sidechain receive, you solo the INST BUS too.

[Dstruct]

For me this is not expected.


I guess this is a perfect example for the need of dedicated sidechain channels/funtionality!?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

For me this is not expected.


I guess this is a perfect example for the need of dedicated sidechain channels/funtionality!?

Or maybe your expectations will get adjusted?

[Dstruct]

Never :-)

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

For me this is not expected.


I guess this is a perfect example for the need of dedicated sidechain channels/funtionality!?

Dstruct I initially found this odd too but it's actually an improvement. This gives us the ability to choose exactly how to listen to a track involved in complicated routing. Solo the track itself, and you'll hear its sends but not its parents receives. Solo (Ignore Routing) and you'll hear just the track, no sends or receives. Want to hear the effect of its parents receives? Solo the parent along with the track.

What I could suggest as an improvement -- you can't Solo (Ignore Routing a Folder). Like, if I wanted to listen to INST BUS (in our example) without the sidechain ducking there's no way to do that. I guess this makes sense because essentially that would mean it wouldn't get the Sent signals from its children, but maybe Alt-Solo(Ignore Routing) on a Folder could just not process receives?

Ugh this is complicated lol.

[deeb]

sorry if i am a bit out, but when i solo an instrument with a side chain , the side chain is part of the instrument. So makes sense if i solo it i want to solo his sound , which includes de side chain.
If i don't want to ear the sound with side chain effect i'd mute side chain.
But i don't know the complex things that this could bring. Just a thought. In my opinion sidechain is even more related with an instrument then a send effect ...

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by deeb

sorry if i am a bit out, but when i solo an instrument with a side chain , the side chain is part of the instrument. So makes sense if i solo it i want to solo his sound , which includes de side chain.
If i don't want to ear the sound with side chain effect i'd mute side chain.
But i don't know the complex things that this could bring. Just a thought. In my opinion sidechain is even more related with an instrument then a send effect ...

Hey deeb, nothing changes for your use. The change affects when sidechain is on a Folder. For certain styles (like Com Truise) the entire INSTRUMENTS bus is ducked, not just the bass, and with the new behaviour it lets you listen to the individual tracks with and without sidechain depending on if you solo the folder or not.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by deeb

sorry if i am a bit out, but when i solo an instrument with a side chain , the side chain is part of the instrument. So makes sense if i solo it i want to solo his sound , which includes de side chain.
If i don't want to ear the sound with side chain effect i'd mute side chain.

That's my opinion too.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by ferropop

with the new behaviour it lets you listen to the individual tracks with and without sidechain depending on if you solo the folder or not.

hei ferropop! I tend to use side chain for individual instrument and not so much on folders. I'd need to test! Anyway! I just wanted to express my notion of instrument + sidechains == instrument. : )
thanks

[Dstruct]

I think the problem is that REAPER isn't aware of the fact that there are channels used for Sidechaining.

[mawi]

For me it doesn't make sense to switch off the sidechain on a folder when I switch a track within a folder to solo. This is inconsistent, because then all FXs and sends on the folder would have to be switched off. I don't want that behavior. If I don't want to hear a sidechain, I simply turn off the sidechain. This is simpler and more consistent for me.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by mawi

For me it doesn't make sense to switch off the sidechain on a folder when I switch a track within a folder to solo. This is inconsistent, because then all FXs and sends on the folder would have to be switched off. I don't want that behavior. If I don't want to hear a sidechain, I simply turn off the sidechain. This is simpler and more consistent for me.

If I'm being honest, this makes Some sense to me. However in any case, I think it's super important to be able to listen both With sidechain on the folder, and Without sidechain. The new behaviour at least gives us that.


What seems MOST consistent would be this:

Solo (in place) on a Track would solo the FULL routing chain. That includes track sends and receives, and folder sends and receives, and master fx. If you solo the bass, you'd hear the bass with sidechain ducking if it's on the folder.

Solo (ignore routing) on a Track would solo ONLY the track. You'd still hear it through its parent(s) and master fx, but sends/receives would not be heard. If you solo (ignore routing) the bass, you'd just hear the bass.

In the case of a Folder, the above takes care of it too! Let's say you want to hear the INST bus with it's sidechain receive -- Solo (in place). If you want to hear the folder WITHOUT it, Solo (ignore routing).

The one weird thing is that technically, a folder relies directly on routing to behave like a bus - so the "ignore routing" mode would imply Ignore External Routing.

...this isn't easy.

[mawi]

After a few considerations, I think that current behavior is the best solution!

However, a specific sidechain way would be desirable to avoid the automatic disabling of receives on folders when you set a track in the folder to solo. Because then you could hear the sidechain but without all the other receives. If you then want to bypass the sidechain, you could mute the sidechain way.

[deeb]

typical scenario:
Kick sends 3/4 to bass track
------------------------
if Solo on bass i want to ear: bass with side chain, but not ear the kick
if solo the kick i would want to ear the kick only

What would you expect?

Can you post more scenarios?

[Dstruct]

The problem is that REAPER doesn't know that the 3/4 send is used for a sidechain. In other scenarios the user could use the 3/4 send for a real audio routing and then you might not want to hear it.

REAPER needs dedicated sidechain channels to be aware of this.

[deeb]

i see your point! i agree ! it would be an advantage if reaper could distinguish a side chain like in the scenario i have posted.

Maybe too simplistic , but apparently an option: "consider 3/4 sends as a side chain" could work?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by deeb

typical scenario:
Kick sends 3/4 to bass track
------------------------
if Solo on bass i want to ear: bass with side chain, but not ear the kick
if solo the kick i would want to ear the kick only

What would you expect?

Can you post more scenarios?

deeb it works the way you are saying.

[Dstruct]

But not in the example in the first post.

[deeb]

cool! good morning! then i don't know what Dstruct missing! : )

[ferropop]

The only change is if the sidechain is on the FOLDER that bass is in. With the new behaviour you can choose between bass (no folder sidechain) or bass (with folder sidechain).