Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Bug Reports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2018, 09:47 AM   #1
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default [5.80] Take FX automation doesn't report starting value, causes pops (FIXED)

1. Add an audio item to a track
2. Add ReaEQ with a single lowpass filter with high resonance
3. Add a take FX automation, sweeping the filter cutoff from minimum to maximum
4. Play until near the end of the item
5. Play again from item start

Result: There's a loud pop at the beginning as ReaEQ moves from the automation value that it stopped at, to the new automation start value on the item.

Expected: ReaEQ set the automation value to the starting point before processing audio, so you get a smooth filter sweep instead of a pop at the beginning.

Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 09:58 AM.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #2
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,453
Default

Yeah this is a bug in the filter transition smoothing, it should not smooth after a reset.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:46 AM   #3
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

I'm not quite sure what "filter transition smoothing" but the parameter jumping applies to any automated parameter for any plugin, it's not just the ReaEQ cutoff.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:51 AM   #4
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post
I'm not quite sure what "filter transition smoothing" but the parameter jumping applies to any automated parameter for any plugin, it's not just the ReaEQ cutoff.
Hmm do you have other examples? This is what happens when seeking on take FX:
  • Plug-in reset
  • Set new parameters
  • Process first block

ReaEQ, on each parameter change, smooths the parameter changes over the block (which is normally desired). After the first block following a reset it is not desired and is a bug...
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:07 AM   #5
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

* Cytomic The Drop
* CamelPhat bandpass
* DMGAudio EQuick

One thing I notice is that with track effect envelopes, when you move the cursor, you can see the VST parameter update in the plugin GUI. But moving the cursor doesn't update the plugin GUI for take effects. The GUI doesn't change until I hit play, and the sudden visual movement from the old value to the new value corresponds with the sound that does the same thing.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:10 AM   #6
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post
* Cytomic The Drop
* CamelPhat bandpass
* DMGAudio EQuick

One thing I notice is that with track effect envelopes, when you move the cursor, you can see the VST parameter update in the plugin GUI. But moving the cursor doesn't update the plugin GUI for take effects. The GUI doesn't change until I hit play, and the sudden visual movement from the old value to the new value corresponds with the sound that does the same thing.
I think this is likely a similar bug in those plug-ins. The UI update issue is related but not the cause.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:16 AM   #7
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

Here's a video demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pIwobop-Gw
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #8
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I think this is likely a similar bug in those plug-ins. The UI update issue is related but not the cause.
Okay. Is that a bug in how REAPER interacts with those plugins? Or with the plugins themselves? Basically I'm wondering if an update to REAPER will fix all these plugins, or if I'd have to contact each developer individually and report it to them. Hopefully it's a REAPER-only thing, or REAPER can do a helpful trick.

Track FX automation works great, because the initial parameter value can be set before any audio starts processing. But with item FX, the audio and the initial parameter value both start at the same time.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #9
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,024
Default

I think you'll need to contact each developer separately. The fix needs to be done in ReaEQ from what I gather. Not host-side.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:32 AM   #10
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

Seems like REAPER could read ahead the starting automation value and tell the plugins about it if it had to? Or potentially let you drag the item FX automation handle outside of the item itself (not sure how that would work).

Track effects don't have this problem precisely because the parameter gets set before any audio starts... there might be a way to make something similar happen with item FX.

---

To clarify, I don't see this problem with track FX envelopes at all, with those same plugins. Moving the cursor causes the GUI to update, and the parameters to be set to the value of the automation point at the cursor. So, REAPER is doing something right with track FX envelopes that it's not doing with item FX envelopes.

Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 11:38 AM.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:00 PM   #11
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post
Seems like REAPER could read ahead the starting automation value and tell the plugins about it if it had to? Or potentially let you drag the item FX automation handle outside of the item itself (not sure how that would work).

Track effects don't have this problem precisely because the parameter gets set before any audio starts... there might be a way to make something similar happen with item FX.

---

To clarify, I don't see this problem with track FX envelopes at all, with those same plugins. Moving the cursor causes the GUI to update, and the parameters to be set to the value of the automation point at the cursor. So, REAPER is doing something right with track FX envelopes that it's not doing with item FX envelopes.
This is almost certainly a bug in various plug-ins, we've just fixed it in ReaEQ for 5.81rc2. We could possibly work around those bugs by processing an extra block in take FX, but I can't say if or when that will happen.

If you want to test a theory for me -- put those FX on a track with automation, go to prefs/playback, disable the option "Run FX when stopped", and set "Run FX for X ms" to 0 ms. Then make sure the tracks in question are not record armed. Once you do that, you should be able to duplicate similar behavior (because the track FX will not be processed between stopping and starting playback).
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:11 PM   #12
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
If you want to test a theory for me -- put those FX on a track with automation, go to prefs/playback, disable the option "Run FX when stopped", and set "Run FX for X ms" to 0 ms. Then make sure the tracks in question are not record armed. Once you do that, you should be able to duplicate similar behavior (because the track FX will not be processed between stopping and starting playback).
Yep exact same behavior.

Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 12:29 PM.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 10:03 AM   #13
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 55
Default

I'm glad to see this is fixed for ReaEQ!

Is there a workaround for other plugins? Every plugin I've tried exhibits the same popping behavior. As mentioned previously, it seems to me like automation values are handled differently for item FX than track FX. Moving the edit cursor notifies the track FX of the updated automation value, but it doesn't appear to notify item FX of the automation value.

Is there a way to configure REAPER to report updated automation values to item FX plugins when moving the edit cursor, the same way it reports updated automation values to track FX?
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.