Automation Issue with Send Volume/Pan

ALex1973 · 06-01-2018, 11:24 AM

I have a problem I just cannot understand, I hope you guys have an explanation, or even a solution! This is my problem:

I have a Novation Impulse connected to my PC via USB using Reaper 5.965 X64.
On my Impulse there is a Nord Lead 2 connected via the MIDI INPUT. This is possible, because the Impulse has a built-in MIDI interface.

I don't use Automap and assigned all faders and knobs via 'Actions'.
Fader 1-8 are assigned to control Volume Faders of Track 1-8 and they work just fine. They are all very responsive.

Fader 9 (CC#49) is assigned to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only). This is a great idea, so I can use Fader 9 to write automation over MIDI. It works in Trim/Read mode, however... as soon as Automation Mode is set to Write or Touch it introduces an annoying delay between moving the fader and the actual response. It is getting slow and jerky and this is also perfectly visible when I click on 'Sends' on the Track. The fader jumps around.

Now, when I assign a knob from my Nord Lead 2 to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only) there is no problem at all! The fader remains very responsive, also in Write- and Touch mode!

The faders on the Impulse are set to CC and send values from 0-127.

I compared the difference between the two MIDI outputs in MIDI-OX, but could not see any strangs things happen.

So why does Reaper has this terrible delayed, jerky behaviour when I assign a fader to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only) when I want to control 'Send Volume' or 'Send Pan'?

And why doesn't the problem doesn't occur when the Nord Lead 2 is been used instead of the MIDI output of the Impulse.

I tried to solve the problem by connecting my Impulse to the MIDI input of my HDSPe AIO, so no USB connection was used, but nu luck.
There is a technical difference between the MIDI CC's of the Impulse and the Nord Lead 2, but I really can't find out what the heck is going on.

Please enlighten me!

ALex1973 · 06-13-2018, 04:43 PM

Solved the problem... I put my graphics card in a different PCIe slot, which according to the manual was better for grapics cards.

The latency is gone, works perfect now! Now I can dub like a pro! :-D

The strange thing is that with the Nord Lead 2 as a controller the problem didn't occur before....... weird....

ALex1973 · 01-10-2019, 07:58 AM

Hmm.. problem NOT solved!

The problem is gone when the project is empty. Then there is no delay.
As soon as the project becomes 'fuller' with MIDI and audio tracks the delay is there on the Sends.

Tried a different videocard, no succes.

I also have a U-Control UC-16 connected to my pc, also the same problem.
As soon as I use the Nord Lead 2 (which uses the MIDI interface of the Impulse) there is NO delay.

What the heck is going on?

ALex1973 · 01-29-2019, 01:36 PM

Is there really nobody who experiences this problem?

I also have an Evolution C-25 MIDi keyboard connected to my pc and the problem doesn't occur when using this.

ALex1973 · 03-12-2019, 01:16 PM

*Bump!*

J Reverb · 03-13-2019, 03:01 AM

Try transmitting on a different midi channel from your Impulse faders for sends/pan.
Also using a different midi bus in Reaper can help for CC data.

ALex1973 · 03-13-2019, 05:51 AM

No, that doesn't help either...

Even if you use Empty Items to 'fill up' 4-5 tracks the problem occurs.

Attached a simple project where the problem occurs.
Just assign a CC to Automation lane: Set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only) in Actions and move the knob or slider and watch how Reaper responds...

J Reverb · 03-13-2019, 02:36 PM

Confirmed here.
Just tested with fresh project.
Latest pre-release.

Erratic jumping behaviour on send volume envelopes even without midi cc/osc assigned.
This doesn't happen on track volume envelopes.

ALex1973 · 03-14-2019, 12:30 AM

I installed the first release of Reaper v5 and the problem is also there from the beginning.

I use Windows 10, tried Windows 7 but also the same problem.

- Problem is gone when I set timebase to minimum, but then you can't see the media items in the TCP, which is useless.
- When I enable 'Faster Text Rendering' in Preferences\Appearance the jerky/delayed behaviour becomes a bit less obvious, but is still noticable.
- The smaller I make the Reaper window itself, the less obvious the problem becomes.

So somehow it also seems to be a graphic (render) related issue.

ALex1973 · 03-17-2019, 04:16 AM

Can a developer confirm this bug? Will it be fixed?

ALex1973 · 04-07-2019, 12:54 PM

*Bump!*

ALex1973 · 04-21-2019, 05:33 AM

*BUMP!*

ALex1973 · 04-26-2019, 04:03 AM

I wonder why no developer is responding to this serious issue.
Annoying...

ALex1973 · 05-07-2019, 04:33 AM

Can a developer at least PLEASE respond?

ALex1973 · 05-10-2019, 06:08 AM

* B U M P *

Meo-Ada Mespotine · 05-10-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALex1973

I wonder why no developer is responding to this serious issue.
Annoying...

I think, they simply haven't got a solution yet.

ALex1973 · 05-10-2019, 11:44 AM

Thanks for your reaction, Mespotine.

I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

ALex1973 · 05-17-2019, 08:16 AM

I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

ALex1973 · 05-25-2019, 02:06 AM

*** B U M P ***

ALex1973 · 06-04-2019, 11:00 AM

* * * B U M P * * *

azslow3 · 06-04-2019, 12:04 PM

Somehow related, at least there I have started:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=206064

After you bump I have got yet another idea... and here is the result:

Notice the last "Undo" in the title bar.
Both are controlled from MIDI, by actions:
* Track: Set volume for selected tracks (MIDI CC/OSC only)
* adjust track send 1 volume (MIDI CC/OSC only)

The first is working normally, creating reasonable "undo" history and smooth curve.
The second creates "Unknown" undo on each change, flickering the title bar and producing the curve with significant delay (not visible on animation)

@Alex1973: is that what you get?
(ps. offtop. I am ALEXey and 1973 is my year

)

ALex1973 · 06-04-2019, 01:55 PM

Difficult to see, but yeah, there is a terrible delay when I am controlling Send Volume/Pan via MIDI...

ALex1973 · 06-11-2019, 10:23 AM

I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

ALex1973 · 06-17-2019, 05:53 AM

I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

ALex1973 · 06-21-2019, 05:33 AM

I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

azslow3 · 06-21-2019, 10:15 AM

lol man. Take time to analyze the problem. Otherwise you will get "difficult too see" reply on your begging, in the best case...

ALex1973 · 06-21-2019, 10:57 AM

It is quite obvious I analysed the problem, see my first post.
What is there to analyse any further?

I am not begging, I just wish a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it.

Now I feel unheard.

azslow3 · 06-22-2019, 11:41 PM

As you can see in the link which I referenced previously, there can be several issues coming from different directions. If you want your issues is fixed, it is better to provide more information.

Does any MIDI controlling for sends works strange? No. Some combinations are working just fine.

It seems like for me the issue is somehow correlated with "undo" points. That is not "difficult to see", you have tons of "unknown" entries or you do not have them. If you see them as well, there will be at least 2 users which have the same observation. We both are lonely otherwise, with logical consequence: devs can assume these are operator's failures on particular systems.

ALex1973 · 06-23-2019, 04:06 AM

I don't have these 'Unknown' entries or flickering.

To sum up my problem:

I experience a terrible lag when I try to automate Send Volume or Send Pan.
(Automating Send Mute or just Volume or Pan works without any problem.)

The problem only occurs when my screen is filled with Items(!)

As soon as I press 'Arm for recording' in all modes except Trim/Read mode the lag is there when I move my fader on my Impulse.

The lag is a lot less obvious when I use my Nord Lead 2 as controller, but is still noticeable.

The lag is a bit less obvious when I activate Preferences/Appearance/Faster Text Rendering.

I experimented with a lot of settings, but the only setting which affects the lag is 'Faster Text Rendering'.

The problem seems somehow related to graphics/rendering (?).

My system:

Xeon X3470 @ 2.94 GHz on an Asus P7P55 LX mainboard with 12 GB RAM. Graphics card: Asus R5 230 1 GB. Sound card: RME HDSPe AIO. Windows 10 LTSC.

All Reaper v5.X versions have the problem and on Windows 7 the problem also occurs.

ALex1973 · 07-10-2019, 06:58 PM

*Bump*

Justin · 07-11-2019, 08:12 AM

Sorry for the delay, a fix is coming soon!

ALex1973 · 07-11-2019, 10:44 AM

That is great news! Thank you very much, Justin!

ALex1973 · 07-11-2019, 12:50 PM

Justin, you made my day! The problem is gone completely! (v5.980 X64) :-D
In all situations the Volume or Pan Send fader responds perfectly to MIDI CC!

THANK YOU so much!

tack · 07-11-2019, 04:41 PM

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

06-01-2018, 11:24 AM	#1
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Automation Issue with Send Volume/Pan I have a problem I just cannot understand, I hope you guys have an explanation, or even a solution! This is my problem: I have a Novation Impulse connected to my PC via USB using Reaper 5.965 X64. On my Impulse there is a Nord Lead 2 connected via the MIDI INPUT. This is possible, because the Impulse has a built-in MIDI interface. I don't use Automap and assigned all faders and knobs via 'Actions'. Fader 1-8 are assigned to control Volume Faders of Track 1-8 and they work just fine. They are all very responsive. Fader 9 (CC#49) is assigned to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only). This is a great idea, so I can use Fader 9 to write automation over MIDI. It works in Trim/Read mode, however... as soon as Automation Mode is set to Write or Touch it introduces an annoying delay between moving the fader and the actual response. It is getting slow and jerky and this is also perfectly visible when I click on 'Sends' on the Track. The fader jumps around. Now, when I assign a knob from my Nord Lead 2 to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only) there is no problem at all! The fader remains very responsive, also in Write- and Touch mode! The faders on the Impulse are set to CC and send values from 0-127. I compared the difference between the two MIDI outputs in MIDI-OX, but could not see any strangs things happen. So why does Reaper has this terrible delayed, jerky behaviour when I assign a fader to 'Automation Lane: set active fader (MIDI CC/OSC only) when I want to control 'Send Volume' or 'Send Pan'? And why doesn't the problem doesn't occur when the Nord Lead 2 is been used instead of the MIDI output of the Impulse. I tried to solve the problem by connecting my Impulse to the MIDI input of my HDSPe AIO, so no USB connection was used, but nu luck. There is a technical difference between the MIDI CC's of the Impulse and the Nord Lead 2, but I really can't find out what the heck is going on. Please enlighten me! Last edited by ALex1973; 02-02-2019 at 04:15 PM.

06-13-2018, 04:43 PM	#2
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Solved! Solved the problem... I put my graphics card in a different PCIe slot, which according to the manual was better for grapics cards. The latency is gone, works perfect now! Now I can dub like a pro! :-D The strange thing is that with the Nord Lead 2 as a controller the problem didn't occur before....... weird....

03-14-2019, 12:30 AM	#9
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I installed the first release of Reaper v5 and the problem is also there from the beginning. I use Windows 10, tried Windows 7 but also the same problem. - Problem is gone when I set timebase to minimum, but then you can't see the media items in the TCP, which is useless. - When I enable 'Faster Text Rendering' in Preferences\Appearance the jerky/delayed behaviour becomes a bit less obvious, but is still noticable. - The smaller I make the Reaper window itself, the less obvious the problem becomes. So somehow it also seems to be a graphic (render) related issue. Last edited by ALex1973; 03-14-2019 at 12:51 AM.

06-23-2019, 04:06 AM	#29
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I don't have these 'Unknown' entries or flickering. To sum up my problem: I experience a terrible lag when I try to automate Send Volume or Send Pan. (Automating Send Mute or just Volume or Pan works without any problem.) The problem only occurs when my screen is filled with Items(!) As soon as I press 'Arm for recording' in all modes except Trim/Read mode the lag is there when I move my fader on my Impulse. The lag is a lot less obvious when I use my Nord Lead 2 as controller, but is still noticeable. The lag is a bit less obvious when I activate Preferences/Appearance/Faster Text Rendering. I experimented with a lot of settings, but the only setting which affects the lag is 'Faster Text Rendering'. The problem seems somehow related to graphics/rendering (?). My system: Xeon X3470 @ 2.94 GHz on an Asus P7P55 LX mainboard with 12 GB RAM. Graphics card: Asus R5 230 1 GB. Sound card: RME HDSPe AIO. Windows 10 LTSC. All Reaper v5.X versions have the problem and on Windows 7 the problem also occurs. Last edited by ALex1973; 07-10-2019 at 06:59 PM.

07-11-2019, 12:50 PM	#33
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	*SOLVED!* Justin, you made my day! The problem is gone completely! (v5.980 X64) :-D In all situations the Volume or Pan Send fader responds perfectly to MIDI CC! THANK YOU so much! Last edited by ALex1973; 07-11-2019 at 01:15 PM.

01-10-2019, 07:58 AM	#3
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Hmm.. problem NOT solved! The problem is gone when the project is empty. Then there is no delay. As soon as the project becomes 'fuller' with MIDI and audio tracks the delay is there on the Sends. Tried a different videocard, no succes. I also have a U-Control UC-16 connected to my pc, also the same problem. As soon as I use the Nord Lead 2 (which uses the MIDI interface of the Impulse) there is NO delay. What the heck is going on?

01-29-2019, 01:36 PM	#4
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Is there really nobody who experiences this problem? I also have an Evolution C-25 MIDi keyboard connected to my pc and the problem doesn't occur when using this. Last edited by ALex1973; 01-29-2019 at 02:55 PM.

03-12-2019, 01:16 PM	#5
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Bump!

03-13-2019, 03:01 AM	#6
J Reverb Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,071	Try transmitting on a different midi channel from your Impulse faders for sends/pan. Also using a different midi bus in Reaper can help for CC data.

03-13-2019, 02:36 PM	#8
J Reverb Human being with feelings Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,071	Confirmed here. Just tested with fresh project. Latest pre-release. Erratic jumping behaviour on send volume envelopes even without midi cc/osc assigned. This doesn't happen on track volume envelopes.

03-17-2019, 04:16 AM	#10
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Can a developer confirm this bug? Will it be fixed?

04-07-2019, 12:54 PM	#11
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Bump!

04-21-2019, 05:33 AM	#12
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	BUMP!

04-26-2019, 04:03 AM	#13
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I wonder why no developer is responding to this serious issue. Annoying...

05-07-2019, 04:33 AM	#14
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Can a developer at least PLEASE respond?

05-10-2019, 06:08 AM	#15
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	* B U M P *

05-10-2019, 11:44 AM	#17
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Thanks for your reaction, Mespotine. I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

05-17-2019, 08:16 AM	#18
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

05-25-2019, 02:06 AM	#19
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	* B U M P *

06-04-2019, 11:00 AM	#20
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	* * * B U M P * * *

06-04-2019, 01:55 PM	#22
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Difficult to see, but yeah, there is a terrible delay when I am controlling Send Volume/Pan via MIDI...

06-11-2019, 10:23 AM	#23
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

06-17-2019, 05:53 AM	#24
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

06-21-2019, 05:33 AM	#25
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	I would be happy if a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

06-21-2019, 10:15 AM	#26
azslow3 Human being with feelings Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 799	lol man. Take time to analyze the problem. Otherwise you will get "difficult too see" reply on your begging, in the best case...

06-21-2019, 10:57 AM	#27
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	It is quite obvious I analysed the problem, see my first post. What is there to analyse any further? I am not begging, I just wish a developer recognises the problem and tell me he is working on it. Now I feel unheard.

06-22-2019, 11:41 PM	#28
azslow3 Human being with feelings Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 799	As you can see in the link which I referenced previously, there can be several issues coming from different directions. If you want your issues is fixed, it is better to provide more information. Does any MIDI controlling for sends works strange? No. Some combinations are working just fine. It seems like for me the issue is somehow correlated with "undo" points. That is not "difficult to see", you have tons of "unknown" entries or you do not have them. If you see them as well, there will be at least 2 users which have the same observation. We both are lonely otherwise, with logical consequence: devs can assume these are operator's failures on particular systems.

07-10-2019, 06:58 PM	#30
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	Bump

07-11-2019, 08:12 AM	#31
Justin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 16,117	Sorry for the delay, a fix is coming soon!

07-11-2019, 10:44 AM	#32
ALex1973 Human being with feelings Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 98	That is great news! Thank you very much, Justin!

07-11-2019, 04:41 PM	#34
tack Human being with feelings Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,629	Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

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