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Old 12-19-2018, 07:44 AM   #1
Coachz
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Default Editing multiple midi items on a track in one editor

I've searched old posts and watched a few videos but no luck. I have a drum track with multiple midi items. I want to double click on one, open the midi editor and be able to edit all of the midi items on that track. I don't want to open the track list in the midi editor and have to highlight the unlock column for all of the items each time I open the editor.

Is there a way to do this please ?
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:49 AM   #2
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Sure is. Set one MIDI editor per project, and open all track MIDI, or all project MIDI. It's in Preferences->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor, or right-click empty area in MIDI editor's tracklist.

Might also want to link item selection to both visibility and editability, and also Active MIDI item follows selection changes in arrange view.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Sure is. Set one MIDI editor per project, and open all track MIDI, or all project MIDI. It's in Preferences->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor, or right-click empty area in MIDI editor's tracklist.

Might also want to link item selection to both visibility and editability, and also Active MIDI item follows selection changes in arrange view.
Thanks for the info. I set those but when I double click on a midi item in a track I still only have one item editable.

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Old 12-19-2018, 10:00 AM   #4
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I use 1 midi editor per track for this. When I open the midi editor, the other midi items appear grayed out, but clicking on one makes it active for editing.

An alternative, if you have a number of midi takes, copy the track and glue the copy, which results in a single midi item for the whole track. So when you open the midi editor, there is only one clip to mess with.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
I use 1 midi editor per track for this. When I open the midi editor, the other midi items appear grayed out, but clicking on one makes it active for editing.

An alternative, if you have a number of midi takes, copy the track and glue the copy, which results in a single midi item for the whole track. So when you open the midi editor, there is only one clip to mess with.
Thanks. I've been doing that but why can't Reaper just let me edit all the midi items that are on a track like one item ? It's so silly to have to be dicking around with selecting each midi item on a track or unlocking each one.

I have drum midi items as Intro, Verse, Chorus etc and glueing them would screw up my ease of copy and pasting them to make arrangements. Come on Reaper ! There needs to be a simple way to just double click on a midi item and have the midi editor let you see all the notes on that track ready to edit.

I do see that if I double click and open a midi item in the editor and THEN select all the midi items in the arrange view they are all editable. So there's that but still a pain to go back and forth.

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Old 12-19-2018, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Thanks for the info. I set those but when I double click on a midi item in a track I still only have one item editable.

Hmmm, ok then try disabling linking visibility. And don't double-click if you have a MIDI editor open already. I have mine docked on second monitor so it's always opened, and basically just single-click what I want to edit, or marquee select what I want to see/edit...

Last edited by EvilDragon; 12-19-2018 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:36 AM   #7
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Hmmm, ok then try disabling linking visibility.
Then that means you're going to have to come over the house and eat some BBQ.

:-)
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Thanks. I've been doing that but why can't Reaper just let me edit all the midi items that are on a track like one item ? It's so silly to have to be dicking around with selecting each midi item on a track or unlocking each one.

I have drum midi items as Intro, Verse, Chorus etc and glueing them would screw up my ease of copy and pasting them to make arrangements. Come on Reaper ! There needs to be a simple way to just double click on a midi item and have the midi editor let you see all the notes on that track ready to edit.

I do see that if I double click and open a midi item in the editor and THEN select all the midi items in the arrange view they are all editable. So there's that but still a pain to go back and forth.

There is a reason for this: say you want to lower the velocity on every snare hit during a verse, for instance. You open up the midi item for that verse, right click on the appropriate note on the piano roll, and shift+scroll wheel a little bit. If reaper worked the way you suggested this would affect every snare hit in the song, not just the ones in the verse.

Of course there would be workarounds for this and it would encourage different workflows than what we have now, but you get the idea.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
There is a reason for this: say you want to lower the velocity on every snare hit during a verse, for instance. You open up the midi item for that verse, right click on the appropriate note on the piano roll, and shift+scroll wheel a little bit. If reaper worked the way you suggested this would affect every snare hit in the song, not just the ones in the verse.

Of course there would be workarounds for this and it would encourage different workflows than what we have now, but you get the idea.
But I have the Velocity bars available at the bottom of the midi editor so I can simply adjust the velocities there. Also evil dragon implies that works for him on his box
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:42 AM   #10
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I always use full song midi items. Then do all my copy/pasting in the midi editor. I've got custom actions set up in my
main midi toolbar to ensure I get all the CCs and it makes it pretty simple.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:44 AM   #11
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Of course that workflow is not always applicable...
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Thanks. I've been doing that but why can't Reaper just let me edit all the midi items that are on a track like one item ? It's so silly to have to be dicking around with selecting each midi item on a track or unlocking each one.
there are ways to set your midi item/editor prefs to do this, but you still need to approach the REAPER MIDI Editor with a different mindset -

REAPER's midi editor is NOT a "window into the world of MIDI" where all project midi is item/track independent. instead, you must remember that each time you open the MIDI editor, it's referencing 1 item. you can see the filename at the top of the window.

i wish it wasn't this way, and that REAPER could just assume that all track MIDI was in the same item WITHOUT actually going ahead and gluing the track's midi -- but that's not the case.

you can achieve this workflow with selectability/editability and clever use of custom actions (selecting all MIDI in the track after entering MIDI editor, for example) -- but your theme will still clearly indicate that online one MIDI item is "active" in the editor.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
there are ways to set your midi item/editor prefs to do this, but you still need to approach the REAPER MIDI Editor with a different mindset -

REAPER's midi editor is NOT a "window into the world of MIDI" where all project midi is item/track independent. instead, you must remember that each time you open the MIDI editor, it's referencing 1 item. you can see the filename at the top of the window.

i wish it wasn't this way, and that REAPER could just assume that all track MIDI was in the same item WITHOUT actually going ahead and gluing the track's midi -- but that's not the case.

you can achieve this workflow with selectability/editability and clever use of custom actions (selecting all MIDI in the track after entering MIDI editor, for example) -- but your theme will still clearly indicate that online one MIDI item is "active" in the editor.
Well with the current situation I double click on a single midi item it opens in the midi editor and then I go back to the arrange View and highlight all of the many items on that track and they all are available for editing in the video editor. Just an easier way of dragging that unlock icon down in the tracklist.

It's still nonintuitive in my opinion as it should be able to edit every item on a track as if it is 1 even if they're separate items. I don't suppose there's a way to fire off an action when the video editor opens automatically so that it will select all the items?
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I always use full song midi items. Then do all my copy/pasting in the midi editor. I've got custom actions set up in my
main midi toolbar to ensure I get all the CCs and it makes it pretty simple.
But using full song midi items makes it much harder to arrange. By me having my midi items for my drums separated into intro, Verse, Chorus it makes it very easy for me to drag them around and create Arrangements while still being able to easily edit them.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:50 AM   #15
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agree, gluing full track midi items isn't a good solution (for everyone).

Quote:
It's still nonintuitive in my opinion as it should be able to edit every item on a track as if it is 1 even if they're separate item
agree. regarding actions, i made a custom action that, among other things, optionally selects all other track midi when one item is opened in the editor, thereby making it all editable. this gets me about 75% of the way there to the desired workflow - but we're still limited in that many scripts and actions only work on midi data that exists on the "active" item

the reality of the midi editor being item-specific, rather than being that mythical "window into midi land" has been a point of contention for me in REAPER for years, but once you accept the basic premise, you can begin working with the logic as opposed to against it

see also: Tycho's post years ago about being unable to open an empty midi editor from a track without an already present midi item. the workaround here is a script that checks for a midi item and, if one doesn't yet exist, creates and enters it
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
agree, gluing full track midi items isn't a good solution (for everyone).



agree. regarding actions, i made a custom action that, among other things, optionally selects all other track midi when one item is opened in the editor, thereby making it all editable. this gets me about 75% of the way there to the desired workflow - but we're still limited in that many scripts and actions only work on midi data that exists on the "active" item

the reality of the midi editor being item-specific, rather than being that mythical "window into midi land" has been a point of contention for me in REAPER for years, but once you accept the basic premise, you can begin working with the logic as opposed to against it

see also: Tycho's post years ago about being unable to open an empty midi editor from a track without an already present midi item. the workaround here is a script that checks for a midi item and, if one doesn't yet exist, creates and enters it
Workarounds are far too frequent though and obvious things should be fixed.

Last edited by Coachz; 12-19-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #17
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it's not obvious, though - as illustrated above, the existing workflow is great for selectively editing only one item's midi data (eg changing velocity of chorus snare). if this behavior was suddenly changed, people would be understandably upset.

personally i think it's an obvious oversight that recorded midi notes aren't selected by default after record mode is disengaged, but i'm also sure that other people wouldn't prefer this behavior.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:13 PM   #18
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@Coachz
Just wanted to say thanks for making your point.
I feel very much the same, find it unintuitive and don't understand why it is not possible to change that (at least as an alternative option).
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:24 PM   #19
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Sure thing. Well at least I can open one of them in a midi editor and then go back and highlight all of them in the arrange window. Maybe even make an action to highlight the whole track
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:01 PM   #20
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Hi Coachz. Maybe give the checkbox:
[x]Make secondary items editable by default
a try.
You have to disable:
[]Selection is linked to editability
apparently, otherwise it gets grayed out.

Maybe you will have to disable some or all of the other ones near that one. ([]Selection is linked to editability) Seems like I get what you ask for in the OP by doing so. But it's not my normal default settings...
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:17 PM   #21
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^^ Was about to post this too.
These settings seem to do what's requested:

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Old 12-20-2018, 11:10 AM   #22
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I still only get the clicked media item editable.



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Old 12-20-2018, 11:26 AM   #23
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It looks like you don't have 'Make secondary items editable by default' checked there.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:41 AM   #24
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If a double click on a midi media item it opens with only one media item on the track editable.




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Old 12-20-2018, 05:03 PM   #25
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^^ Disable 'Media item selection is linked to visibilty' there.

edit:
And also disable 'Active MIDI item follows selction changes in arrange view"
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:37 PM   #26
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Success !!! Thanks so much. I can now have a track with many midi media items and double click on one and have access to edit them all in the Midi Editor with no workaround. Here are the screenshots of my settings in hopes they help others too. I think this should be the default. CHANGE MY MIND !



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Old 12-20-2018, 05:46 PM   #27
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Not exactly. All the scripts, lots of actions or functionalities can't be applicated on all midi items at once, inside the midi editor.

It seems than devs don't give a shit about this issue.
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Old 12-20-2018, 05:50 PM   #28
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Not exactly. All the scripts, lots of actions or functionalities can't be applicated on all midi items at once.

It seems than devs don't give a shit about this issue.
That sucks big time then. WTF ? I used to bitch about how takes were non-intuitive (still are) and the take system needed to be rewritten. Then they went on to 2 years of updating MIDI and I sat by. So after all that, MIDI is still a cripple and they went on to adding VIDEO ? Why can't they focus on polishing things until they are professional or at least FUNCTIONAL and really useful ? This is really sad.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
That sucks big time then. WTF ? I used to bitch about how takes were non-intuitive (still are) and the take system needed to be rewritten. Then they went on to 2 years of updating MIDI and I sat by. So after all that, MIDI is still a cripple and they went on to adding VIDEO ? Why can't they focus on polishing things until they are professional or at least FUNCTIONAL and really useful ? This is really sad.
Exactly. Instead of correct problematic issues/bugs for lots of people or add popular wishes (mp3 tags or area selection), they often prefer to add lots of stupids/useless or usefull for few people/cosmetics new features asked by few people/popular people or make stupids bugs corrections (bug which happens one time in a billion).

It seems than devs don't use all Reaper functionalities to don't correct lots of pretty problematic issues. The lake of communication about their choises/arguments about not adding somes popular features (or not correcting somes serious bugs/functionalities) is a big fail, too. Because of this, people loss their time and energie to argue for nothing...

Last edited by ovnis; 12-20-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:30 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Not exactly. All the scripts, lots of actions or functionalities can't be applicated on all midi items at once, inside the midi editor.

It seems than devs don't give a shit about this issue.
I wouldn't say it's this bad.
For actions, most do work on all editable items I think.
And if not, stuff gets fixed at times, e.g.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146111

But agreed for scripts, this is badly missing imo.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168563
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:31 PM   #31
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haha disabling takes was one of the very first things I did in Reaper


I agree - give an option for the MIDI editor to handle a full track, rather than just individual items!
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:56 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pingosimon View Post
haha disabling takes was one of the very first things I did in Reaper


I agree - give an option for the MIDI editor to handle a full track, rather than just individual items!
Already proposed. Ignored.

Individual item midi edition is so useless and boring...
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
And if not, stuff gets fixed at times, e.g.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146111
Already done for some stuffs : ignored.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
But agreed for scripts, this is badly missing imo.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168563
2016...

Last edited by ovnis; 12-20-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:01 AM   #34
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So after all that, MIDI is still a cripple
I disagree. MIDI is a LOT more functional now that we have all these options for different sorts of workflows. Before these options were added, none of those workflows were possible, so it WAS crippled then. Right now things are a LOT better than they used to be. That's not to say some aspects couldn't be improved, but I don't think things will move away from item-based as this is the lowest common denominator in Reaper - everything starts from an item. Don't expect MIDI to behave as a single track like in Sonar, say - ever (mainly because items can be stacked in FIPM, then you have a confusion which one should be displayed etc.)
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:47 AM   #35
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I disagree. MIDI is a LOT more functional now that we have all these options for different sorts of workflows. Before these options were added, none of those workflows were possible, so it WAS crippled then. Right now things are a LOT better than they used to be. That's not to say some aspects couldn't be improved, but I don't think things will move away from item-based as this is the lowest common denominator in Reaper - everything starts from an item. Don't expect MIDI to behave as a single track like in Sonar, say - ever (mainly because items can be stacked in FIPM, then you have a confusion which one should be displayed etc.)
I respectfully disagree. Being able to edit a track of midi data is simply intuitive and it should be able to work this way ALONG with single item if desired. Stacked items could be displayed like takes in layers you could rotate through. Many other users agree.
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:54 AM   #36
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Well, with your settings you can now edit stuff across the track. Only a few actions don't apply to all editable items, IIRC, but I don't know the whole list, I assume juliansader has investigated this.

I do agree as nofish said that scripts should be able to modify all editable items, too. Hope to see this implemented to ReaScript eventually.
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Old 12-21-2018, 07:23 AM   #37
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MIDI is a LOT more functional now that we have all these options for different sorts of workflows. Before these options were added, none of those workflows were possible, so it WAS crippled then. Right now things are a LOT better than they used to be.
100%.

Quote:
That's not to say some aspects couldn't be improved, but I don't think things will move away from item-based as this is the lowest common denominator in Reaper - everything starts from an item. Don't expect MIDI to behave as a single track like in Sonar
the same was said about automation items being disconnected from the underlying envelopes, once upon a time in 2017. i'd like to see the MIDI editor [optionally] treat track midi as if it were glued trackwide, without actually gluing it. considerations would have to be made for adding notes in the case of FIPM, of course -- maybe write any new notes in the lowest item in the FIPM or something, i don't know.

anyway, perhaps more importantly, i would guess that stacked MIDI items in FIPM is more of a corner case than the more generic function of being able to edit a full track's MIDI at once, and that such scenarios shouldn't be held up as reasons why not to pursue what is probably a more common expectation

as Coachz said, i think that there is a common and intuitive expectation of being able to edit a full track's MIDI -- which we can already do with ~75% functionality (going off into the weeds with scripts, etc). there's also the theme considerations, where inactive MIDI items display differently from "active" ones.

while i won't commit to the assertion that this is "standard workflow," i'd definitely hypothesize that it's a pretty common end-user expectation that hasn't fully been fulfilled due to the emergence of the MIDI editor as a tool to edit single midi files at a time.

TLDR, my ideal MIDI editor display would be item-independent for track, showing all track MIDI data as if it were 1 visible/editable "active" item, with other tracks' MIDI data visible but transparent, with all of the existing toggle options for visibility/editability etc still there.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:11 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Only a few actions don't apply to all editable items, IIRC, but I don't know the whole list, I assume juliansader has investigated this.
As it's a little pet peeve of mine :P
Currently I only know of these (which doesn't mean there couldn't be more of course)

- "Select notes with same note value"
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1618050

- Not an action but event list doesn't work with all editable items either (which I find a rather big issue)
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=192213

Last edited by nofish; 12-21-2018 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:17 AM   #39
RobU
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Success !!! Thanks so much. I can now have a track with many midi media items and double click on one and have access to edit them all in the Midi Editor with no workaround. Here are the screenshots of my settings in hopes they help others too. I think this should be the default. CHANGE MY MIND !




So these are the settings I use, and for the most part it works well.


I also use the Track List to activate the item for editing (the down arrow icon), but the annoying thing is that if the item is off screen, it doesn't come into view. It can be forced into view by clicking the item editing icon a second time, but it would be immensely less irritating if it did this on the first click.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:21 AM   #40
EvilDragon
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
- "Select notes with same note value"
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1618050
That's quite weird, because right-clicking a note on piano roll DOES select all notes across all editable items!
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