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Old 05-30-2008, 05:45 AM   #1
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Default Who Knows of a GREAT Midi Editor That Can Launch Inside of Reaper?

Who's got a GREAT Midi Editor that can launch inside of Reaper?

A while back I saw one on this forum that looked interesting (something out of Japan I believe) but can't seem to find it now (DOH!)

Are there ANY 3rd party Midi Editors (like wave editors) that can be launch inside of Reaper and help make it work a bit more like C4?

Thanks,
Jamie
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:22 AM   #2
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the japanese sequencer you are looking to is "Domino".
You can found some links to it here:
http://www.plogue.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16795

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Old 05-30-2008, 06:42 AM   #3
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Thanks marce!

Do you use it (or does anyone else?)

If so... how's it working for ya?

Building my new daw now... just waiting on some more parts to come then I can try it out for myself!

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Old 05-30-2008, 09:49 AM   #4
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Domino seems nice, would like to use it.

What would the workflow be if using an external MIDI editor?
To me it seems complicated (maybe I'm wrong).

Let's say I'd like to make a MIDI bass track to my song in Reaper.
How would I check the bassline in relation to my Reaper project (both, audio-visually)?
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:51 AM   #5
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Tried to open a MIDI file in Domino and got the following:




The compromises begin...
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:26 AM   #6
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Well that has got to be worth a try eh?

So in the immortal works of Nat King Cole

there may be trouble ahead,
but while theres moonlight and music and let's give this a chance,
let's face the music and dance.

before the fiddlers have fled,
before they ask us to pay the bill,
While we have Reaper not Cubase perchance,
let's face the music and dance.

soon, we'll be without the moon,
humming a different toon,
and then, there may be tear drops to shed.
so while theres moonlight and music and love and romance,
let's face the music and dance.
let's face the music and dance,




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Old 05-30-2008, 02:33 PM   #7
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Anyone using EnergyXT for midi within Reaper ? I know its working as a VSTi because I used it for sidechaning.
Don't know how it apeals to midi specialists though.
I know its a non starter for me as an Audio app.
XT2 is even worse. I can't fathom it out.


Cheers

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Old 05-30-2008, 05:25 PM   #8
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Domino looks really good, nice smooth interface with stacks of functions and loads of tracks, well 16 I expect but I can't tell you now because when I closed it to try and use it as a external editor in Reaper I looked for it in my programs and it wasn't there

I did a search on the C drive and it wasn't there

I had a look in add and remove programs and guess what - yup not there.

Has anyone installed it and it hasn't disappeared? I was looking forward to this but it looks like the curse of the Reaper midi editor strikes again

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Old 05-30-2008, 09:50 PM   #9
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FL Studio has one of the best piano roll editors IMHO, and you can of course open it inside Reaper as a VSTi.

Cheers!
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
Has anyone installed it and it hasn't disappeared? I was looking forward to this but it looks like the curse of the Reaper midi editor strikes again

It doesn't need installing, so it should be where you first launched the exe.
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
FL Studio has one of the best piano roll editors IMHO
+1

(although i dont miss anything in reaper..)

(besides groove quantize, that is)
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
It doesn't need installing, so it should be where you first launched the exe.
Thanks Carbon, I did figure it out eventually

It seems Reaper does not allow you to open an external midi editor in the same way as it does an audio editor, and Domino can't be used as an FX - shame.

Is that it then? Am I right in thinking the only way is to use separately and import/export midi files. It's better than nothing, but not as good as I had hoped.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Is that it then? Am I right in thinking the only way is to use separately and import/export midi files. It's better than nothing, but not as good as I had hoped.
Well no - you didn't try EnergyXT or did you? It comes in three flavours:

Standalone
VSTi
VST



The last two work within Reaper.
I'm not that up on midi so I don't know how well its features cover the experts needs here.
Maybe someone will comment!

Cheers

maa

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Old 05-31-2008, 04:42 AM   #14
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eXT 1.4 is where it's at for MIDI (as that's what it's primary focus was on)...perfect compliment to reaper if you as me. Plus it serves as a fully modular effects host, which is useful as well.

eXT 2 has gone more on the 'full on DAW' approach so far, and lost some of it's more advanced MIDI things in favor of more audio based things like synth/drum machine/etc. Perhaps it will slowly incorporate more of the 1.4 stuff in there...but nothing is to stop you from using both (even 1.4 IN 2 :P)

I'd say give the demo a shot, and if it works for you...the license is very well priced (and you get both versions)
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa View Post
Well no - you didn't try EnergyXT or did you? It comes in three flavours:

Standalone
VSTi
VST

Cheers

maa
Obviously not maa, thanks I will try the demo.

I'm not very mid inclined, I only use for drums and sometimes some very basic instrumentation, but I have serious trouble navigating around the notes with a mouse. If you could select notes with your keyboard and navigate the window with the arrow keys the editor we have would do me - I live in hope.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
Thanks Carbon, I did figure it out eventually

It seems Reaper does not allow you to open an external midi editor in the same way as it does an audio editor, and Domino can't be used as an FX - shame.

Is that it then? Am I right in thinking the only way is to use separately and import/export midi files. It's better than nothing, but not as good as I had hoped.
I can use Domino as an external editor with no problems in Reaper.
Just register it in Prfeferences/External editors with Mid extension.
If I then rightclick on a Midi item I get the "open with external editor" function and Domino opens with the Midi data.

Only backdraw is you have to save your changes within Domino everytime otherwise in won't be updated in Reaper.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:24 AM   #17
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I tried that but when I right click on a midi track the option is greyed out
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:45 AM   #18
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YES - It does work!!

Nofish - most awesome dude

Amused, are you doing it exactly right?

Have you located domino and given it the mid extension in Reapers prefs?

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Old 05-31-2008, 10:52 AM   #19
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Yep - tried it with .mid and mid but it doesn't appear in the right click list.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:01 AM   #20
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'

Bummer man, I don't know why that could be.

I've got my Domino in a folder on my desktop with all it's components, just trying to think what could be different.

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Old 05-31-2008, 11:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
YES - It does work!!

Nofish - most awesome dude
I know I know, but thanks for the reminder.

More seriously though,

aMUSEd, did you leave the "." dot away in the extension?
Just use "Mid" not ".Mid" otherwise it won't work.
Just an idea I found in another thread.

edit: Oh just saw your post above, you already tried it with mid already I guess.
Than I'm also stuck...

Last edited by nofish; 05-31-2008 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:27 PM   #22
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I can use Domino as an external editor with no problems in Reaper.
Just register it in Prfeferences/External editors with Mid extension.
If I then rightclick on a Midi item I get the "open with external editor" function and Domino opens with the Midi data.

Only backdraw is you have to save your changes within Domino everytime otherwise in won't be updated in Reaper.
Hey nofish, how do you save your changes? I only got the option of a dms (Domino Song File), so I went file-export midi, and dragged it back into Reaper on another track, then imploded to takes after. Is there a faster way?

One great feature in Domino is, it'll copy the gap between the edit cursor and the first midi note, which Reaper won't do (it's a real pain when editing live V Drums, believe me).

Great speed with opening too! Thanks Marce
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:36 PM   #23
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aMUSed, this is how I set up the editor prefs for Domino:



with Domino placed in Program Files.

I set my prefs like this, so that any imported midi can be opened in Domino (or an item copy of a Reaper-created midi file)

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Old 05-31-2008, 02:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
Hey nofish, how do you save your changes? I only got the option of a dms (Domino Song File), so I went file-export midi, and dragged it back into Reaper on another track, then imploded to takes after. Is there a faster way?

One great feature in Domino is, it'll copy the gap between the edit cursor and the first midi note, which Reaper won't do (it's a real pain when editing live V Drums, believe me).

Great speed with opening too! Thanks Marce

Now there is a good use for Hotkeys methinks.

When you're finished in Domino editing, press a key or button that will initiate ALt+F (File) then M to export midi item, then Alt+F4 to close Domino, thn back to Reaper and grab your new midi item from the media browser.

Haven't tried it yet but it should work just fine

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Old 05-31-2008, 03:03 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
Now there is a good use for Hotkeys methinks.

When you're finished in Domino editing, press a key or button that will initiate ALt+F (File) then M to export midi item, then Alt+F4 to close Domino, thn back to Reaper and grab your new midi item from the media browser.

Haven't tried it yet but it should work just fine

Oh I'll definitely set up an autohotkey script for this, as soon as I've worked out it's limitations.

It has definable keyboard shortcuts though (including export midi), so , so far so good.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:09 PM   #26
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Default another midi program

Donít know why it never caught on beside activation protection, sometimes concrete dense tech help and no vsti support, but Voyetra Midi Producer for under $20 fills all the external hardware control that Reaper doesnít currently have. Midi editor, prints sheet music. Solid performance, intuitive interface, master/slave clock functions. Loops are a breeze and good quantitization. Damn good grade A program if you got a room full of hardware spread all over the place. This is about as close as the perfect companion to Reaper comes. They got a 15 day free trial that is definitely worth your while to download. Get Maple, Loopb or MidiYoke free cables and youíre setÖReaper master, Voyetra slaved to clock. Sweet indeed. Still looking to the day that Reaper can handle external hardware.

http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/...midi/home.aspx

One note, Voyetra was having trouble with M-Audio USB midi cables/cards and the program freezing. Installed the current drivers and the problem seems to be gone so far.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support&tab=driver if you got one of these

OT from this thread, but whatís up with Wusikstation. No more updates, upgrades, sound sets unless you join the private club and do the magazine subscription. This is a more per month than my Netflix subscription. Think Iíll just use what I got from them and move on. The deeper the marketing ploys get in desperation to snag a buck, more the Reaper ethos shines.

May all be well,
John
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #27
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Default Hang in there kid...help is on it's way!

PG Music is now doing the exploration on making Band In A Box AND Powertracks Rewire enabled. Powertracks is an unbelievable midi sequencer, with both piano roll and notation-centric editing. Visit PGmusic.com to find out more...
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:56 PM   #28
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Default good one

Tonehenge,

Yeah, thanks for the reminder. Clock connection is solid. Their vsti handling is fragile (no progress from the last version). The program was crashing for me more than it was running, trying to rein in renegade synths that Reaper opened without problem so I let it go latent. Voyetra doesnít have the fault since it canít open vstiís from the start. Reaper does vstiís hands down best on the planet. Sticking with the midi side of PowerTracks gives a solid program to compliment Reaper as well as sporadic soft synth support. PowerTracks and Voyetra are possibly the best choices without having to go broke (XT, Podium and Fruit close pricewise).

Regards,
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:32 PM   #29
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Does, "Create new MIDI items as .mid files" make a difference?
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:31 PM   #30
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Well, I tried both those as editors for midi files in Reaper...

Voyetra wouldn't open a file, came up repeatedly with an error message. Plus it looks fugly...

Power Tracks looks powerful, but you have to open and close a few windows to get to the piano roll (at least by default anyway), and the copy and paste is kinda slow with dialogues at every step. The help file is pretty untuitive, at least to me (like explaining how an action works, but not how to activate that action!). Sounds like something I'd have to spend a while sussing out to speeden things up.

Domino's the winner for me, fast opening, nice interface and GUI, copies and pastes fast and smart, kb shortcuts for everything, great for editing drums which is all I use midi for. It could be quite handy for the odd midi editing job in Reaper (like multiple parts that don't start at a grid line). If it navigated from one selected note to the next via arrow keys, I'd be in (MIDI) heaven...

and btw, this is all without a manual, I couldn't find an english translation anywhere...
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:40 AM   #31
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Speaking of translation, does anybody know what these options mean?
Configuration > Event List 1 > On Keyboard input > ...

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Old 06-01-2008, 04:10 AM   #32
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So, what is the basic workflow?

Like this?

1) Record/import MIDI into Reaper
2) Right-click on item, select "open items with Domino" or "open item copies with Domino"
3) Select MIDI-in in Reaper to be "MIDI Yoke"
4) Select MIDI-out in Domino to be also "MIDI Yoke"
5) Edit stuff, play, listen without the ability to listen other tracks in Reaper.
6) Export MIDI from Domino, Save, Close Domino.
7) Listen for the result in Reaper.

How do you get the right tempo to Domino?
I hope I did something wrong and there's an easier way


EDIT: Can't get Reaper to display the results of the edited MIDI file. Doesn't Reaper automatically update if in the preferences it's set to create mid files and references?
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Oh I'll definitely set up an autohotkey script for this, as soon as I've worked out it's limitations.

It has definable keyboard shortcuts though (including export midi), so , so far so good.
I'm going to dive into this as well
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:52 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon View Post
So, what is the basic workflow?

Like this?

1) Record/import MIDI into Reaper
2) Right-click on item, select "open items with Domino" or "open item copies with Domino"
3) Select MIDI-in in Reaper to be "MIDI Yoke"
4) Select MIDI-out in Domino to be also "MIDI Yoke"
5) Edit stuff, play, listen without the ability to listen other tracks in Reaper.
6) Export MIDI from Domino, Save, Close Domino.
7) Listen for the result in Reaper.

How do you get the right tempo to Domino?
I hope I did something wrong and there's an easier way


EDIT: Can't get Reaper to display the results of the edited MIDI file. Doesn't Reaper automatically update if in the preferences it's set to create mid files and references?
I opened item copies in Domino, exported the midi file and closed it without saving...then deleted the new take in Reaper and pasted the exported midi file as a new take.

But yeah, for all those reasons you listed and more (like markers and time signature changes) it's just not practical to use it with Reaper for me...

I love the way it selects midi notes though, it drag selects from whatever grid line you start at, and if you copy that, it'll paste with the gap included...awesome and such time saving!

In Reaper I have to insert a dummy note, lasso the notes, copy, delete the dummy note, paste at the required grid line, then delete the pasted dummy note...aaargh! Talk about Slow Tools...

Check this pic out, Justin:




See how it includes the gap at the start? And pasting at bar 5 includes the selected gap? It's a very intuitive FAST way to edit midi drums especially.

Hey Tedwood, glad to see somebody else wants to navigate and select midi notes using the arrow keys! It drives me nuts having to grab the mouse all the time in the midi editor...
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
Bevoss
Hey Tedwood, glad to see somebody else wants to navigate and select midi notes using the arrow keys! It drives me nuts having to grab the mouse all the time in the midi editor...

Then feel free to bump this FR Bevoss, only two ++1's and one of those was mine!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post

The whole point of an editor is that you can edit, you don't want to do the editing with your mouse all the time, trying to select little notes when they are all bunched up, and having to zoom in and out, so to just hold down a key (or two) and scroll along to the next one you want to edit is so obviously necessary; just like you do in a word processor, it's standard normal Windoze behavior. Only a complete novice would try and edit a Word document with a mouse - that would be stupid.

One of Reaper's main attributes is being "tool-less" so having to select notes with the mouse seems to be such an oversight.


Surely everybody could use this action - or do they edit midi some other way we don't know about?

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Old 06-01-2008, 01:13 PM   #36
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I opened item copies in Domino, exported the midi file and closed it without saving...then deleted the new take in Reaper and pasted the exported midi file as a new take.
No need for copy & paste or using Midi Yoke (for me).
If I export the edited Midi file from Domino and save it under the filename Reaper has given (overwrite) if I then open it in Reaper again the changes are kept.
Pretty quick since you can assign a shortcut for exporting Midi in Domino.

edit: Ok, using Midi Yoke to be able to listen to the changes directly in Domino. Got it....

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Old 06-01-2008, 02:11 PM   #37
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Default afterthought

Hi Guys,

Saw the feedback on the Voyetra midi and would like to add a couple notes. If it donít work for the flow, it donít work, simple. Sorry about the crashes experienced. There are some things about the program I can pass on in case anyone was wanting to try it but ran into the freeze problem and didnít get a chance to really evaluate the program. This then for information only.

Voyetra should import midi, riff midi and their own session files without problem. Midi Producer is the upgrade of the older Digital Orchestrator and has been a solid software since the 90ís, just they donít do updates except every few years and they didnít grow with the vsti revolution. Like a rock stuck in time.

Many professionals I know use the program to print out score for copyright and as a composer for rough drafts. I use it to run my jungle of hardware synths so I can change pan and volume from the mixer, my main FR for Reaper. When guru Terry West came up with his Midimix plugin, these functions can now be done inside Reaper with an extra step. Thatís another plugin that didnít get enough press, and thanks again Terry if youíre still out there.

Problem with Voyetra freezing is likely if you have anything from M-Audio on your system. Voyetra has a patch on their website to fix the M-Audio soundcard crash which works well from reports. My Delta 2496 has no problem (driver was recently updated) even without the patch. That leaves the midi USB interfaces which is a separate problem. Voyatra and M-Audio were doing a major blame game a couple years ago accusing each other of the freeze problem and neither company would come forth with a fix.

M-Audio has recently updated drivers for their midi-USB hardware (UNO, 1x1, 2x2,etc all the same file). The freeze problem seems to be fixed.

Also with Voyetra, the site has a download of the font for sheet music, otherwise the printout will be ugly. And the GUIÖif the ďuse windows colorĒ is defaulted, yeah, it looks ugly. Uncheck the option and the GUI goes to the default, a kinda brushed steel and blue graphic thatís not bad.

Last thought is that the program is licensed to one computer only via activation. They said however that they do allow multiple activations.

All I can add, moving on. Thanks also for the link on Domino.

John K
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:19 PM   #38
norbury brook
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Bevoss,

AS that section starts on beat 4, how difficult is it in Reaper to just lasso,ctrl+c then move the cursor to beat 4 of where the next part starts and hit ctrl+v ? obviously the snap set 1/4 note


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Old 06-01-2008, 05:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
Bevoss,

AS that section starts on beat 4, how difficult is it in Reaper to just lasso,ctrl+c then move the cursor to beat 4 of where the next part starts and hit ctrl+v ? obviously the snap set 1/4 note


MC
Of course you could do that on that one, it's just a visual example of copying the 'gap'. I knew someone would state the obvious though...

All my drums are played in by a real drummer, so they push and pull slightly with the bass (and I like that) and aren't always dead on a grid line...so lining that up by hand every time I paste is a pain, which is why I use the 'dummy note' method. If you can copy the gap from a previous bar line, it's much faster.

Last edited by Bevosss; 06-01-2008 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:38 AM   #40
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What I don't get is why doesn't Reaper just take a few notes from Cubendo and be done with it?

Is it because it's too difficult to write the code or what?

Help us Justin on this one... please
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