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Old 04-05-2019, 09:28 AM   #1
Tod
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Default Exporting/Importing midi files, very buggy[fixed]

First I exported a midi1 file with two midi tracks on it.

Then when I 3 times tried to drag the midi file into Reaper, Reaper went into "Not Responding" mode all 3 times, and after considerable minutes I finally closed it with Task Manager.

So then I tried to insert it as a media file, and I thought it was going to hang too, but I continued to wait and after 25 or more seconds it finally loaded. However, as you can see in the picture, it did not load well. What I'm wondering, did this happen when I exported the midi file ore when I inserted it into Reaper.

https://stash.reaper.fm/36017/Midi%2...editor%201.png



When I played the midi, it seemed to play correctly. My Specs:

i7-4790K with 16GB of ram.
Reaper 5.972/64
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Last edited by Tod; 04-08-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:44 AM   #2
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Could you give us the .mid file? If you exported it from REAPER, could you possibly also give us the source .RPP, trimmed down to just the relevant MIDI items?
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:02 AM   #3
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Here you go schwa, I included both the export and import Reaper files along with the midi file.

https://stash.reaper.fm/36018/Proble...from%20Tod.zip
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:35 AM   #4
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Thanks for the files. The project contains 713908 MIDI events, of which 63183 are literal duplicates (the same message sent at the same time). REAPER is hanging while inefficiently removing the duplicates on load. We can make this much more efficient, but it's also worth figuring out why the duplicate messages exist in the first place.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Thanks for the files. The project contains 713908 MIDI events, of which 63183 are literal duplicates (the same message sent at the same time). REAPER is hanging while inefficiently removing the duplicates on load. We can make this much more efficient, but it's also worth figuring out why the duplicate messages exist in the first place.
Aah, so you think the duplicated notes are the problem, I hadn't thought of that and I should have removed them anyway.

I'll give that a try and see what happens, then get back to you.

Thanks schwa.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:51 AM   #6
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It's not just notes, it's all kinds of duplicated events.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:07 AM   #7
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Looking just at the screenshot, it looks like there are overlapping notes too.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:08 AM   #8
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Okay, I deleted all the duplicates but the problem remained.

https://stash.reaper.fm/36020/Proble...%20Tod%202.zip
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
It's not just notes, it's all kinds of duplicated events.
I meant CCs schwa, sorry. The problem is the notes that expanded.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Looking just at the screenshot, it looks like there are overlapping notes too.
Thanks DS, yeah, that's the problem.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:13 AM   #11
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After deleting the duplicates the midi files loaded without any problems, but the expanded notes lengths is still there.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:39 AM   #12
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What did you record there Tod?

Maybe you had looped recording on or so, and went drinking coffee? Reaper would handle it anyway correctly, always?

What I prefer with midi, using always the linked variant, with an external .mid file always. Then I can update them internally or externally. Even replace them, externally.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
What did you record there Tod?

Maybe you had looped recording on or so, and went drinking coffee? Reaper would handle it anyway correctly, always?

What I prefer with midi, using always the linked variant, with an external .mid file always. Then I can update them internally or externally. Even replace them, externally.
Thanks TonE, no looping here. This is a midi track for my Steel guitar in Kontakt I'm getting ready to launch. I want to include demos with both the audio backing instruments, along with the steel midi files. That way they can just drag them into their DAWs.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:57 AM   #14
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I just want to point out that no one should be painting this as Tod doing something wrong with duplicate events etc.

When you have a big project, there are going to be duplicate events EVERYWHERE. Copying and pasting, moving data from one track to another and muting the previous item in case you need to reference it. Having alternate takes of midi parts. The list goes on, and on and on. And that's just from the stuff we do on purpose...

To someone who doesn't know better, it looks like complete total midi shrapnel. But like I said, every big project ends up looking this way.

So, my plea to the developers would be please try and see if there's a way to resolve this with Tod's original project file. Because this is not at all uncommon. And if you have a giant project with a 1000 tracks and midi items everywhere trying to "clean" everything up is nigh impossible.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
We can make this much more efficient, but it's also worth figuring out why the duplicate messages exist in the first place.
Actually Reaper has never eliminated redundant CCs. Right now I'm using a script to eliminate them, it works very well, I just have to remember to do that.

I don't eliminate them right away because I'm always in the editing mode. If I do eliminate them and have to edit them later, I usually have to redraw to get the density for making changes.
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Old 04-05-2019, 02:48 PM   #16
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As long as we do not know exactly how you created those midi's one can not say or conclude much, except there are duplicates or overlaps. But why, because of what is still unknown, because the entire process in unknown.

If you want to analyze this in detail you should check after each editing/recording step what is changing where? Having external midi files would allow using external command line midi tools for cleaning up duplicates, for example, or anything else you would need. Apart from the million features inside Reaper, with or without scripts. Good luck with your project.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
As long as we do not know exactly how you created those midi's one can not say or conclude much, except there are duplicates or overlaps. But why, because of what is still unknown, because the entire process in unknown.
In the case of my Steel Guitar, which are the files shown above, I both play the notes in as well as add them manually. For my Steel, I draw all the CCs in by hand. The reason there are many duplicates is because I've got my "Events per quarter note" set quite high to avoid stair stepping.

However, I do have a script in my main midi toolbar that eliminates duplicates very well. There are also some scripts that Julian has made that eliminates them as you draw them in. I do use those scripts but there are some controllers, on some projects that work better by freehand drawing.

I appreciate your reply TonE.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:01 AM   #18
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Humm, I was hoping to find out what's going on, I've got quite a few midi files I have to make to distribute with my Steel Guitar project.

I'm going to try it again today, maybe I can get it to work, or at least find out what's happening.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:15 AM   #19
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This will be fixed, in various ways, for the next release cycle, but the fixes won't make it into 5.974 which will probably be released soon.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:18 AM   #20
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Various ways, meaning:

+ MIDI: more efficient import of .mid files with many duplicate events [t=219351]
+ MIDI editor: add action to remove duplicate selected events (existing action only removes duplicate notes)
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Various ways, meaning:

+ MIDI: more efficient import of .mid files with many duplicate events [t=219351]
+ MIDI editor: add action to remove duplicate selected events (existing action only removes duplicate notes)
that's great schwa, but I did remove all duplicate redundant CCs and get the same result. I posted it above in post #8 I believe.

Today, I deleted all the muted notes thinking that had something to do with it but that didn't work either.
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Old 04-06-2019, 02:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This will be fixed, in various ways, for the next release cycle, but the fixes won't make it into 5.974 which will probably be released soon.
Just so that you know schwa, xpander mentioned "Automatically correct overlapping notes" in MIDI editor Options, and that seemed to be the problem. Even though there were no actual overlapping notes, I guess they were close enough to cause problems.

Thank you.
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