Old 12-11-2019, 10:59 PM   #1
tpunk
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Default Piano roll envelope mode

First of all, it may be a little difficult to understand because it is a translated sentence.

I want to be able to input the envelope directly on the piano roll like an image. (Sorry for the miscellaneous image, but imagine that there are actually more points and freehand input)
The input envelope makes the pitch bend function along the scale of the piano roll with the center of the note on the same timeline as the neutral position.

Sometimes the piano roll is used to input the scale, but if only the pitch envelope is input to another list, it is not intuitive and sometimes annoying.

If you can do this, you can visually input the envelope while confirming which scale you are stepping up and down.

To change the operation procedure, click the newly created piano roll envelope mode button or use the shortcut key.
At this time, in the image, the notes on the piano roll are lightly colored as if they were slightly filtered, and the envelope is clearly displayed.
When editing notes with a normal piano roll, there should be a version with a mode where the envelope is a little lighter and a mode where the envelope is completely invisible.

Normally, note is not touched in this piano roll envelope mode, but if you do not use other shortcut keys, you may be able to edit notes if you hold down the shortcut key.

Pitch bend operation is enabled from the beginning of the note and is reset to 0 once at the end of the note.
If you don't want to reset it arbitrarily and want to continue to the next note, you just need to keep the envelope extended.
Otherwise, when the next note begins, the pitch bend position will be "0" at the center of the note's scale.

To play with the pitch bend moved from the beginning, you need to snap to the same vertical axis as the start point of the note, or enter the envelope from a blank list that has no previous note.

If you end the envelope earlier than the end of the note, the last input envelope position will be applied until the end of the note, and the pitch bend will return to 0 with the end of the note.
Of course, you may return the envelope to 0 after the end of the note to the middle position of the scale where the note is, just like when you are actually playing.

It is useful to be able to snap to the vertical center of each scale, the start and end positions of notes, and the horizontal grid for smoother work.

If you do not want to snap, use the shortcut key that does not snap. Of course, you can also input freehand. It is basically the same operation method as the track envelope (drag left with Shift etc.)

I think these displays should be compatible with the normal CC lane track envelope. The reverse should be possible as well.

There is a setting of ďUse ReaPitch instead of pitch bendĒ, and if this can be used in the same way in the CC lane envelope and the piano roll envelope mode proposed this time, I think it will be more enjoyable.

It seems that such functions are already available in pitch editing software such as Merodyne, but the same thing cannot be done with the MIDI editor. If this function is realized, people who have little knowledge of music like me will be intuitive, and you can enjoy sliding or singing a piano keyboard or guitar fingerboard.
It may take a lot of effort, but it may reign as a unique REAPER feature.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Piano roll envelope mode.jpg (63.8 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg New envelope.jpg (62.8 KB, 70 views)
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:02 AM   #2
gofer
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I‘d love pitch bend editing like this for MPE stuff, because the 48 semitones bend range used by default makes it practically impossible to meaningfully edit pitch bend data in Reapers CC lane. I believe Haken continuum even uses 96 semitones by default. It‘s mostly a problem of scale, pitch variations are minuscule in Reaper‘s CC lane. Plus there is also the problem that there is no way to see where straight semitones are in the vertical range of the lane. Both would be gracefully solved by editing pitch right in the notes area. Bitwig is an example of a DAW that has this implemented in a really good way.

A thing to consider:

Because bend range is determined by the receiving synth, there isn‘t an objective amount of bend that‘s performed for a given value. Full bend may mean anything between 0 and 96 semitones depending on the setting of the receiving device. So for an implementation like you propose Reaper needs a way to know which value it‘s meant to send for, say, a bend of two semitones.
The bend shown in your example spreads from + an octave down to - an octave. Yet most synths default to two semitones in both directions and that will be how they will interpret the messages sent by Reaper. Without setting both Reaper and the synth to agree on the maximum bend range what you see will not be what you get.

Last edited by gofer; 12-12-2019 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Typo reduction
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:42 AM   #3
tpunk
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Thank you for your reply.

That's right. I forgot to write, but it is necessary to input the bend width of the plug-in used in the track into the setting list of the piano roll envelope mode for each track.

I didn't know that Bitwig has such a feature.
I want to try it if possible.

It would be helpful if there was a function to freely select the grid line setting that could be snapped into each CC lane envelope.

+24 equal parts
-24 equal parts

And so on.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:55 AM   #4
Vagelis
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++++1

It would be nice to see any of the cc envelopes on the piano roll as we can see take envelopes on the item.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:22 AM   #5
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I only tried Bitwigís implementation with MPE, where each overlapping note is on a separate channel, so that a separate curve on every note makes sense. I donít know for sure how it deals with single-channel chords. But as the implementation is really that good, Iíd assume that they are aware that there can only be one pitch curve to rule them all in that case.

It would be neat to have for other CC and aftertouch, too - it would make a lot of sense for MPE to edit some CC tied to the note they belong to (as in per-note-expression). But in case of pitch itís more than just nice - it is plain necessary as soon as you deal with bend ranges of an octave or bigger. Itís not cool to try to bend up two semitones in a pitch lane where semitones are only pixels apart. Not even to think about drawing a tiny vibrato.

This is, as far as I am aware, the only aspect of MPE where Reaper has no real solution yet. Everything else is just working in a very neat way (with the invaluable help of juliansadderís cool script which makes the channel of the selected note the active channel in the MIDI editor).
The cool thing is that Cockos didnít even need to change anything at all, their MIDI implementation just proved ready for MPE - apart from pitch bend editing. Not sure whether that has been mentioned before, but imo, they really deserve cudos for future-proof-thinking in this case .
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #6
tpunk
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I'm just trying out Bitwig's envelope features.

Surprisingly this was exactly this feature.

There was also a video here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Gp4jRfIb8


I had very little knowledge of MPE, but I wanted this feature to be introduced at the top if I could do something like video.

I don't have much knowledge of other DAWs. However, I am sometimes surprised by the high potential of REAPER.

I am excited to imagine that the same editing as a video will be possible on REAPER and that it will become a familiar feeling of operation.
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