Old 04-02-2020, 01:00 PM   #1
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Default wayback, a fluid live looping delay


wayback, a fluid live looping delay

hi folks! coming out of the cave for a bit to share a new gem of sorts. this one just sort of happened. wayback is a minimalist audio delay for live looping, with warp, which shifts the delay in time! wayback blends a basic delay with the essential abilities of a looper, while staying as close as possible to the delay paradigm. warp, copy & extend operations use a big circular buffer to revert to prior audio & manipulate multiple loops.

wayback supports external fx on feedback. live looping controls are crossfaded to avoid clicks and even transitions. the ui is scaleable with light and dark modes. there are keyboard shortcuts for essential live controls & an illuminating buffer visualization. just 4 midi learnable meta foot controls make live looping quick and easy. a companion fx, wbmux ("dub-bee-mux") provides remote control of multiple waybacks.

i've been doing echo/loop centric ambient for quite a while. wayback began as a way to replace a copy protected delay with something portable. i just needed freeze and external feedback fx. that wasn't too hard, and i was back up and running with homegrown delays. it was simple, just echo & repro & a generic Js gui. but... source code is addictive. some accidental synergies are too cool to ignore. :^) warp was 'just' an 'easy' evolution of the big circular buffer i'd used for smooth length changes. ha! early warp experiments were exciting. warp is time travel in a history of past echoes! but making warp work well was one essential cool bit after another. and so, wayback.

i started looping ages ago on an Obie EDP. it's quite clever, powerful and complicated. too much so for me these days. for quite a while i've been using more primitive 'tape' style delays. (Frippertronics anyone? :^) this simpler approach facilitates more organic, fluid 'looping' for me. this is the basis of wayback. all the loopy bits stay as close as possible to the tape echo model, vs an EDP style DAW model. this has limitations, but can be more immediate and agile.

this release is somewhat rushed. current events are extremely distracting. and i am a bit burned out on coding. wayback has been solid for my use cases for a while, but there are less well tested bits. and the documentation is primitive. i'm happy to fix bugs and answer questions.

download wayback here: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38738/wayback.zip

latest, greatest documentation in the README.txt file. contextual help is shown below the wayback controls when the window is tall enough, with some details. the nifty visualization is your friend. :^)

enjoy! /dan

ps- wayback is built on a couple of maybe useful Js pseudo-classes. wbmachine.jsfx-inc implements all the wayback delay bits, including warp. ccslider.jsfx-inc is a wrapper gui for Js sliders. no docs, but questions welcome.




main controls


settings, dark mode


wbmux ("dub-bee-mux")

Last edited by bang; 04-16-2020 at 04:17 PM. Reason: doc info, clarity tweaks, cruft cleanup, new pix
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Old 04-02-2020, 03:03 PM   #2
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Hi,
Wonderful !
Thank you, and glad to see you back !
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Old 04-02-2020, 05:12 PM   #3
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Hi bang,
I just quickly tried the looper (live looping delay) and it is real fun.
Thank you

FR: To be able to Undo last recording pass would be great
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Old 04-02-2020, 05:39 PM   #4
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This looks neat.

Will give it a try
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:26 AM   #5
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big bang theory starting again, cool to see you here again, thanks for sharing your geniousity with us.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:04 AM   #6
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Hey! Welcome back! We've missed you.

Did you know that there's a way to dump JS buffers to the project now? Not sure how it works (slight lack of documentation) but Super8 looper does it, if you can decipher Justin's code. That would be a lovely addition.

Looking forward to trying this one later.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:34 AM   #7
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+1 to this ^^^^^^^
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:08 AM   #8
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hi folks! thanks for the kind words. very nice to see a few familiar names. :^) about new features, for the time being wayback pretty much is what it is. i've been coding wayback for 4 months and need a good long break. also some time just playing with it & practicing the new capabilities. it's a whole new ballgame for me too, and i need some perspective. i want to be careful that any future features preserve the simplicity & clarity of the tape echo scheme.

coding undo could be tricky because of the interactions with other operations. wayback can approximate undo using basic warp back 1x in echo mode. it's kind of an instant rewind. if looping, copy warp forth 1x can be used to set a checkpoint of sorts. then basic warp back 1x kind of undoes back to that point. there's also zap, which momentarily kills feedback, basically erasing small bits of the loop. wayback's approach is to offer tools for creative flow with chaotic events. a time machine is more fun than undo! ;^)

export wav to project is just one function call in Super8. so that might be trivial, if it works for stereo. it's a nice trick for a multitrack looper, but i wonder how useful it is when only one track is generated, vs normal recording?

thoughts?

be well, /dan
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
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export wav to project is just one function call in Super8. so that might be trivial, if it works for stereo. it's a nice trick for a multitrack looper, but i wonder how useful it is when only one track is generated, vs normal recording?
I think it's just a matter of convenience. A one-click 'dump this cool loop I've made into a file so I can't lose it' button would be presumably be quicker than setting up a recording.


Still not tried it (got sidetracked) but I know it's going to be awesome.
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:18 AM   #10
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I think it's just a matter of convenience. A one-click 'dump this cool loop I've made into a file so I can't lose it' button would be presumably be quicker than setting up a recording.
i get that. and it would be cool to be able to load a wav file back into wayback for raw material too. i'll start the list... :^)

ps- forgot to say the rudimentary docs are in the README.txt file. and if the wayback window is tall enough it shows contextual help below the controls, including a lot of the details.

and heads up that current presets might become defunct in v1.0. forgot to tidy the Js sliders before this release.
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:57 AM   #11
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I like it. It's confusing me a bit but that's probably just because I'm having a stupid moment. One thing I would appreciate though is GUI scaling, as it's a bit hard to read the text over here.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:08 AM   #12
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wbnote (dub-bee-note)
meta delta

hi folks! i'm going to try doing some little app notes for wayback fwiw.

the meta delta foot control is perhaps the most basic wayback trick. in echo mode, delta provides one pedal looping. at minimum/heel down input is off and feedback is high, so basically a moving loop in the big buffer. i have found that keeping feedback just below 100% lessens 'static loop fatigue' and encourages evolving loops by setting a time limit of sorts. the maximum feedback level for delta is tweakable using the 'delta fb max' setting.

engage delta and input is enabled. this overdubs with delta controlling feedback. slam delta to maximum/toe down and the delay output is cut and feedback minimized, which effectively overwrites the moving loop with new input. the minimum feedback and output level at max delta are configurable in settings. i like minimum feedback a bit greater than zero so a little bit of old audio lingers in new loops. and it can be nice to have a bit of the old audio audible while replacing it.

meta delta does looping, overdub, feedback and replace all in one! this has been my primary workflow for several years pre-dating wayback. try it! you'll like it! :^) /dan

ps- there are 5 shortcuts that provide basic control of meta delta from a keyboard. "'" is minimum delta, or heel down, so loopy. ";" engages delta just a bit, for overdubbing with max feedback. "[" & "]" overdub with more feedback, and "" is max delta, for replace.

Last edited by bang; 04-16-2020 at 04:17 PM. Reason: add kb shortcuts info & banner
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:14 AM   #13
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I like it. It's confusing me a bit but that's probably just because I'm having a stupid moment. One thing I would appreciate though is GUI scaling, as it's a bit hard to read the text over here.
yeah. i wondered about that. i develop exlusively on an old macbook at 1440x900. :^P so help me out. there are now 2 text sizes depending on the window height: verdana 10 & 12. i've considered a 3rd large option, but what should it be? this lowrez guy has no clue.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:27 AM   #14
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yeah. i wondered about that. i develop exlusively on an old macbook at 1440x900. :^P so help me out. there are now 2 text sizes depending on the window height: verdana 10 & 12. i've considered a 3rd large option, but what should it be? this lowrez guy has no clue.
Judging by the difference between the 10 and 12, I think 14 would be okay for me. I'm new to this high-dpi thing though (1920x1080 on a 15" laptop screen), so I don't know how that would translate onto other displays.
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:39 PM   #15
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I like mostly the word "Zap" in the gui, I like it because of trackers, I am sure all know what I mean.
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Old 04-05-2020, 12:00 PM   #16
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I like mostly the word "Zap" in the gui, I like it because of trackers, I am sure all know what I mean.
i like zap too (but don't get the tracker ref). 'delta' and 'warp' are also fun. just slightly scifi. :^)

note to all: i'm going to do a new minor release soonish with some sort of fix for the high dpi issue, and also clean up a few internals. if anyone else has useability issues please let me know. /dan
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:53 PM   #17
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Can you see the zap button, zap removing or cleaning up all note and effect entries, but keeping the samples or instruments, so you can start a new song, e.g. take any song, zap it, do your own creation, with same samples.

Same in milkytracker

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Old 04-05-2020, 02:07 PM   #18
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Been playing with this plugin all day. Love it. Don't understand a lot of it. I made a beardman type panel with open-stage-control. WIll there be a manual? Would it be possible to add a reverse playing feature? Thanks!
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:50 AM   #19
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Did not test this yet, to which hardware (if any) would this plugin be closest? Just to put it in some place.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:22 AM   #20
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Been playing with this plugin all day. Love it. Don't understand a lot of it. I made a beardman type panel with open-stage-control. WIll there be a manual? Would it be possible to add a reverse playing feature? Thanks!
thanks Thrash! check out the README.txt for some very brief, dry docs. it covers all the basics. & i added it to the first post. the contextual help has many details. & i have a series of app notes outlined, starting with the meta delta note earlier. hooking up delta to a foot pedal is a good way to start figuring out wayback imo. next appnote is an overview of the keyboard shortcuts rsn, which cover all the basic live controls. look for the shortcuts in quotes in the contextual help.

alas, wayback has forward temporal motion hard coded in it's crossfading genes. it's only a time *travel* machine. :^) so playing backwards won't work. but, you've given a no good, horribly cool idea, darn you! :^) hmmm...
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:24 AM   #21
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Did not test this yet, to which hardware (if any) would this plugin be closest? Just to put it in some place.
well, it's not like anything real, but you might imagine it as a steampunk Oberheim EDP, made from gears and magnetic disks. :^) i explain this a bit in the first post.

Last edited by bang; 04-06-2020 at 08:12 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:21 AM   #22
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Thanks, quickly put together a manual for it. Just putting all information from here, not much more, but can be improved in future, after starting testing it or more information flowing in here from other users, especially use case examples would be great.

Last edited by TonE; 04-08-2020 at 02:28 AM. Reason: removed pdf manual again, at request of bang
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:30 PM   #23
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wayback, a fluid live looping delay

hi folks. new release, primarily for hidpi useability, but with a couple fun bits:

- made the font/ui size configurable. in the bangzero folder, replace wbtweaks.jsfx-inc with either wbtweaks-large.jsfx-inc or wbtweaks-small.jsfx.inc. let me know if that covers it. i'm using wbtweaks.jsfx-inc for persistent global customizations. is there any better way these days, Js folk?

- reordered the internal Js sliders so the meta controls are easy to find at top. NOTE: *this breaks presets and midi learn.* for example, any meta delta pedal will need to be remapped. i'll try to keep presets compatable in the future.

- used correct light mode background color: obie cream. the earlier hp grey background can be selected by editing wbtweaks.jsfx-inc, if you prefer.

- changed term meta 'op' to 'alt' for clarity. op was a bit too cute.

- renamed a number of internal variable to match user interface terms.

- added experimental export buffer to wav support using 'export!' button on the settings page, shortcut capital "X". this adds a stereo wav file at the end of the current project on the first track containing the entire wayback big circular buffer. by default this is 64 seconds. use reset! with fewer cycles for smaller exports.

- added experimental 'flip' warp type, which is a reverse order copy warp. shortcut "v" toggles basic/flip warp types. wayback adjust the output position so that after a flip it plays the most recent audio backwards and loops from there. so not reverse playback, but flipped loops???

experimental means minimal testing and integration. take care! enjoy! /dan

download wayback here: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38738/wayback.zip

Last edited by bang; 04-16-2020 at 04:17 PM. Reason: release banner
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:33 AM   #24
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How would wayback compare to Super8? Having some comparison among their features might help for future users of both, how those tools could be combined, and to which degree they complement each other or having overlapping features.

Last edited by TonE; 04-08-2020 at 06:16 AM. Reason: added users
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:41 AM   #25
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Large is better thanks. Not had time to delve into it properly but I've had some fun! Makes me wish I could play something other than drums!
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:08 AM   #26
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How would wayback compare to Super8? Having some comparison among their features might help for future users of both, how those tools could be combined, and to which degree they complement each other or having overlapping features.
a short answer is that 'loopers' like Super8 focus on building a composition out of looping musical parts. 'looping delays' like wayback focus on evolving music in a mutable buffer of past echos. this is a grey, ambiguous distinction. composition & evolution are always coexistent & interdependant. wayback is perhaps exploring some outer limits of evolution. ps- sync is a key practical difference. Super8/loopers are generally beat sync'd, wayback/looping delays tempo sync'd.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:09 AM   #27
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Large is better thanks. Not had time to delve into it properly but I've had some fun! Makes me wish I could play something other than drums!
just consider wayback a way of letting your inner Bruford-Mastelotto out IXix! :^) (am i dated or what? at least it wasn't your inner Kreuztmann-Hart. :^)

fyi, there is an XL size option you can edit in wbtweaks. but the circle outlines seem a bit thin at that scale to me.

glad you've had a bit of fun with wayback. that's the idea. :^) enjoy! /dan
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Old 04-11-2020, 07:51 PM   #28
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wayback, a fluid live looping delay

hi folks! kind of very nearly final odds & ends release v0.92rc is up on stash: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38738/wayback.zip.

this release completes the keyboard shortcuts. it adds "m/M" for 2x/0.5x beats, and a new 'goto' shortcuts mode. normally the number keys and top row of letters (1-0 q-p) change the delay time between 1-16/24/32/48/64 beats. shortcut "-" toggles the goto mode in which "`", the number keys & "q-y" immediately warp to cycle 0-16 in the big buffer. this works in both echo & loop modes, to different effect. it can be used to treat the wayback buffer as a sort of basic keyboard controlled live loop resampler/slicer/dicer.

other bits:
- added crude, experimental wav import logic. rename wav file "wbimport.wav" & move to Reaper's Data directory. capital "V" or shift-click 'import!' loads entire wayback buffer from wbimport.wav.
- changed the keyboard focus indicator from top/left red dot to a more subtle top right corner arc. the indicator turns cyan in goto shortcuts mode.
- made warp copy & flip sort of work in echo modes.
- made subliminal meters liminal.

this release seems pretty much complete to me. i will keep doing use tests here for a couple more weeks. last call for feedback? app note on all shortcuts coming rsn... enjoy! /dan

Last edited by bang; 04-16-2020 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:12 AM   #29
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Thanks Dan! Just a thought but could the keyboard shortcuts be duplicated as MIDI input, so you could assign a note or CC to the various functions? That would make it even better as a live tool I think.

edit: Oh, I think maybe you already can with the meta stuff. RTFM !

Last edited by IXix; 04-12-2020 at 02:21 AM. Reason: RTFM
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Old 04-12-2020, 03:07 AM   #30
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Dear Dan, thanks for the updates, here my feedback, tried to test it quickly, clicked here and there, things moving on gui, but not sure how to use this "secret device", no sound I could here. Is it such a tool, where we have 100 parameters and only if the combination of the parameters is exactly right, we can hear anything?

Simplest example use case would be great. As youtube in best case, or gif, or text. Click here, click here, click here, then you should hear this, for example.

UPDATE: At second try I can play or hear what I recorded, the difference is, I loaded wayback from menu, track, insert, virtual instrument, creating 5 tracks, before I loaded it into a single track, I guess this was the problem there.

Last edited by TonE; 04-12-2020 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 04-12-2020, 06:34 AM   #31
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Scenario 1: I want to record 4 bar loop, can I define it anywhere in wayback? If yes, how? I will experiment more, trying to figure out this case.

Not sure if this Scenario 1 is possible, but what a magical tool you created here! Thanks a lot, lots of respects, maestro bang.

UPDATE: !0 toggle settings page, things get even more crazy.
UPDATE 2: I was hearing nicely the delayed sound, then tried toggle settings page, enabled feedback fx, played a bit around, then back to main page, but somehow the delay was gone now, tried to get it back, not sure how, clicked around everywhere, somehow could not get back the delayed sound. Hmm. Any tips where to click to get back the delayed sound? Or asked in a different way, which parameters can cause the delayed sound to be disabled, so to be careful there? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by TonE; 04-12-2020 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:23 AM   #32
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Thanks Dan! Just a thought but could the keyboard shortcuts be duplicated as MIDI input[...]
everything the shortcuts do should be possible by midi mapping the visual controls. sometimes you need to set several controls in sequence, which can't be done with simple midi learn. warp for instance needs the multiplier and type preset before the actual back!/forth!/goto!. the meta controls are just one way to boil wayback down into simple live controls. the main controls are a sort of toolkit for custom control schemes.
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:26 AM   #33
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[...]I was hearing nicely the delayed sound, then tried toggle settings page, enabled feedback fx, played a bit around, then back to main page, but somehow the delay was gone now[...]
hey TonE, just clicking things is perhaps not the best way to learn wayback. "here be dragons!" :^) for example, 'feedback fx' requires external fx with inputs & output specially routed to wayback. without that feedback fx will just break wayback. so leave that off for now.

i suggest starting slow and getting a basic echo going from scratch:

- choose 'Reset to factory default' from the presets menu

- route audio to wayback. if wayback is on a send, set 'dry-fx mix' on settings page to 1.0. this is often easier.

with the default settings you should hear a 1 second delayed echo of the audio input to wayback.

- enable 'sync'. now you should hear a quarter note delay at your current tempo, because the default the 'beat time' is 1/4, and 'beats' is 1.

- change 'beats' to 4. this should give a 1 bar delay.

- turn up 'feedback' a bit. this will make the 1 bar delay repeat. adjust the decay to taste.

that's a basic wayback echo. big fun! i probably spend half my time just playing with echos.

the simplest way to loop with wayback is by setting feedback to 1.0. turn in level on to overdub & off to just loop. this is the purpose of the meta dub control, which usually just toggles in level on and off. there is a meta dub keyboard shortcut "," or you can map a footswitch to the meta dub button on the settings page.

next i would check out the meta delta app note i posted earlier and try to get that working. that's another way to loop with wayback. and you can loop with repro mode, and the soft/hard loop modes. wayback has multiple choice looping!

i have a more extensive wayback walkthrough app note in mind. right after the keyboard shortcuts app note, rsn... :^) enjoy!

ps- also, make the wayback window tall enough to see the contextual help. read that, before you click! :^)

Last edited by bang; 04-18-2020 at 02:20 PM. Reason: fixes for latest wayback
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Old 04-12-2020, 10:19 AM   #34
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ps- i've kind of intentionally left the wayback visualization undocumented. it presents a fairly complete picture of wayback's current state and operations on the buffer. i hope it's intuitive and fun to figure out.

pps- added info on the meta delta keyboard shortcuts to the earlier wbnote. so all the meta bits are keyboard controllable. keyboard looping, for those who have hands to spare while playing. :^)

ppps- anyone have a better word than "visualization"? so awkward! :^) maybe something a bit scifi?
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:20 PM   #35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYSXYbVZw4k#t=6m5s
What is that light called? Maybe something like that?

Calling professor maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBwdjahzd-U#t=0m51s
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:15 AM   #36
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teaser: a magic wayback play-flow. ??? more soon...

[obsolete animation removed. update here]

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Old 04-14-2020, 09:41 AM   #37
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wayback, a fluid live looping delay

hi folks! just a few more fixes release v0.93rc is up on stash: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38738/wayback.zip.

this release:

- fixes a wraparound bug in flip warp.

- changes 'dry level' control to 'dry-fx mix', so dry can be louder than the maximum fx level. this is needed when wayback is an insert.

- makes in level default to on and dry-fx mix default to 0.5 for ease using wayback as insert. so a new wayback insert does something audible. when using wayback on a send set dry-fx mix to 1.0.

- changes 'out level' to 'fx level' in ui for clarity. fx level controls only the delay output level, not the whole fx output.

enjoy! /dan

Last edited by bang; 04-16-2020 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:45 AM   #38
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wbnote (dub-bee-note)

shortcuts & meta quickref

[obsolete quickref removed. new quickref doc coming in next release]

Last edited by bang; 06-17-2020 at 03:59 PM. Reason: zap obsolete quickref
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:35 AM   #39
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wayback, a fluid live looping delay

hi folks! 'keeping up with the demos' release v0.94rc is up on stash: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/38738/wayback.zip.

this release:

- fixes a bug that produced bad unsync'd dly time on fx/project reload.

- makes changes to beats effective when not sync'd to host tempo. unsync'd beats deltas now change the delay time by the ratio of new to old beats.

- makes extend & 2x/0.5x operations update both beats & time when unsync'd.

- makes 'first' extend-loop type the default.

- includes new & tweaked README/contextual docs.

- adds "!" as a shortcut for reset!

- 'the visualization' is now 'the scanner'. :^)

be well, & enjoy! /dan
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:43 AM   #40
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note: this demo out of date. meta-alt behavior has changed. update rsn...



magic wayback playflow #1
notes

setup:

prep wayback for the demo: reset to factory default. set beats to 4. reset! the buffer to 4 cycles long. this facilitates the 'magical' extend-loop buffer overflow trick.

wbmux:

wbmux is used for visible mouse meta control in this demo screen capture. so we first set the plex control in wayback to match the dbmux plex. now dbmux dub, loop & alt remotely control wayback. note how meta alt changes the alt state and settings button ring color together.

meta dub:

in the default echo mode, meta dub simply toggles input to the delay on & off.

meta delta:

engage meta delta just a bit and in level goes on. (in the demo, feedback initially jumps from default 0 to the maximum for meta delta.) as delta increases feedback goes down, until at maximum delta feedback is minimum and fx output is cut as well.

the demo backs off from max delta to something reasonable for playing along with echos while creating a historic record in the big circular buffer.

meta loop:

basically meta loop toggles between echo and soft loop modes. loop modes preserve the earlier content of the big buffer.

warp:

warp shifts a loop to a new position in the big buffer, and wayback plays whatever prior audio is there. after some time playing in echo mode, looping and warping shift loops around in the sonic past recorded in the big buffer. this makes it possible to *return* to earlier music. awesome, imho.

looping meta dub:

in loop modes, note that meta dub toggles wet & hard loop modes as well as delay input.

extend:

meta dub after meta alt starts extend, which sets echo mode and turns on delay input. then the delay time increases in multiples of the original time, while overdubbing. there are several ways to finish extend. here extend continues until it fills the circular buffer & automatically starts looping. magic! :^) note that overdubbing continues after extend until disabled by a final meta dub.

extend is sort of 'next level' wayback, extra cool & quirky. it specifically serves the purpose of overdubbing on top of a quantized growing loop. copy warp is simpler for many things.

& so it goes:

nothing last forever. exit looping with meta loop. back in echo mode, maybe overdub some more. back off the delta pedal to raise feedback and kill the input. then fade away...

ps- screencap still a bit rough.
pps- ,,,, ;';[]\][ .... bbn ,,,, /,, bbn .,'x ???

Last edited by bang; 04-26-2020 at 10:46 AM.
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