Reaper 6.80 on New Macbook Air 15-Inch: Meter Scrolls While Playhead & Waveform Lag

[benorbeen]

Hi! First time poster, and I couldn't find anyone else with this heartache, so I thought I'd check here.

This month, I upgraded from a Macbook Pro 2018 (Pro) where I had Reaper 6.79, to the brand-new Macbook Air 15-Inch, Apple M2 chip, 24GB Memory (Air).

After importing my prior apps to my new Air, I upgraded Reaper to 6.80.

I started to notice issues with my Reaper 6.80 on my new Air that I never saw on my prior computer or prior version of Reaper.

1. Usually the problem in Reaper 6.80 on my Air shows up in playback, so I will describe it first:

===========================
- After recording a longer voiceover, I will review it by playing from the beginning. I use a Magic Mouse. I will make various edits along the way using my Magic Mouse and keyboard hotkeys.

- During this time, the meter, the playhead, and the waveform will effectively be in synch.
(*By "meter," I mean the "ruler" atop the waveform.)

- However, at some point, eventually, upon playback, the meter will appear to scroll along at the predicted pace, but there will be no playhead (yellow line).

- Eventually, (after maybe 4 seconds?), the playhead appears, though it moves along more in spurts than smoothly.

- As I try to scroll back and forth with the Magic Mouse, it appears the meter moves along with it, but the playhead and waveform don't. They effectively lag.
===========================

The effect is a visual mess of meter moving along with my swiping back and forth, but the waveform not following along.

As a result, editing becomes difficult, because if I am quickly trying to make an edit and try to play back to review, the meter scrolls but there is no playhead movement for a few seconds.

2. I have started to notice a similar issue shows up during long-form recording. This is what I have seen so far:

===========================
- During a longer recording, it will appear that Reaper is not recording the audio, as if the recording is lagging.

- When I click Reaper while recording, the window will "catch up" and show that in fact it had been recording.

- (The recorded audio always has seemed fine.)
===========================

I am at a loss for how to correctly address this issue. Please note that in my older, "slower" Intel-based Pro, Reaper 6.79 worked fine, but in my newer, "faster" Apple M2-based Air, Reaper 6.80 is demonstrating this conduct.

I did try on my Air to downgrade via the Universal installer to Reaper 6.79. I was not able to recreate the problem in Reaper 6.79, so it seems to me the difference is between 6.79 and 6.80 "causes" the problem I'm seeing.

But it doesn't settle me that the current version of Reaper causes problems on my beefier computer -- and being that this problem is on a new, non-Intel-based computer, I really don't know what the deal is -- my computer? the processor? Reaper? or something else?

I am curious:
- If you have seen a similar issue
- If you have ideas of how you would approach solving this problem

Thank you for taking the time to read.

[benorbeen]

A couple other notes:

- I forgot to mention that closing Reaper 6.80 and re-opening it fixes the issue immediately, but it can creep back up.

- Just now, I saw a clearer example of the issue:

* On playback the meter scrolls, and I hear the audio playing. However, the playhead and the waveform are starting right in place, not moving.
* I played a 30-second-ish voiceover, and the meter scrolled the entire time, and the playhead and waveform never scrolled from their place.

Why is this?

[Jur451c]

Hi, it could be that you are running the Intel version in Rosetta mode rather than the native version.

My advice would be to find the app in your applications folder, Right click and 'Get Info'.

Under 'General' it should say 'Kind: Application (Universal)'.
At the bottom of the 'General' area there should be a tick box for 'Open using Rosetta', this should be unticked.

If you find it's not Universal you will need to download the latest version from https://www.reaper.fm/download.php. Make sure you select the

macOS 10.15+
REAPER v6.xx - xxMB
Universal for Intel and ARM64

Once installed you can recheck the 'Universal' and 'Rosetta' stuff from above.

The problem could also be third party plugins - you need to make sure that they are all (or as many as possible) Apple silicon (or Arm) native.

I hope this helps, good luck!

[benorbeen]

Jur451c,

Thank you so much for your detailed & instructive reply.

I confirmed that on my Air, my Reaper 6.80 installation showed in Get Info a) "Kind: Application (Universal)" and b) "Open using Rosetta" UNCHECKED. So, that was as you had instructed.

So, even though this was Reaper 6.80, I went ahead and followed your instructions and re-installed Reaper 6.80.

(I'll have to test later to see if this re-installation did anything in terms of my issue.)

Admittedly, since my installation before following your instructions implied all was right in terms of the Get Info information, I suspect these above actions won't cure the issue. But I do like your suggestion that plugins could be the issue.

Also admittedly, I'm not sure how to do testing to see if plugins are Apple Silicon/ARM native.

After my first installation of Reaper 6.80 on the Air, I did notice my older iZootope plugins worked but popped out of the FX window ("unbridging," I think is the term), a symptom cured by spending some cash to upgrade those plugins, after research suggesting the environment may be the cause. So, I have seen how older plugins and this M2 environment may not get along, but I don't know how to figure out whether a plugin plays well in the M2 environment.

Should you have any advice or time to suggest how to measure whether plugins are Apple Silicon/ARM native, I welcome your guidance.

Side question: If a plugin is installed but either:
1) in the FX chain but UNCHECKED, or
2) not in the FX chain but appearing within the FX browser (i.e., installed),
… would you anticipate either situations causing issues like mine? (In effect, I'm asking: If non-native plugins are installed in Reaper but NOT ON, would you anticipate they would cause issues like mine?)

[Jur451c]

I think any plugin that is loaded, whether active or not could have an effect. Just having the plugin in your library should be fine.

You can look at CPU in Activity Monitor, order by 'Kind' and see if anything appears that is 'Intel', this will indicate that something is running in rosetta.

Also, if you look in your dock and see a white icon with the reaper logo in blue on it that is called 'reaper_host_x86_64' when you hover over it, this also indicates that there is an intel plugin running.

Just a disclaimer: I'm not an expert, this is just my understanding! It may be that someone else will pop up and correct me on this!

One thing I would try is to open a brand new session and import some audio (multiple would be good to properly test) and see if the problem persists without any plugins.

There is also a setting in 'General'->'Advanced UI/system tweaks' where you can change the 'Display updates:' my M1 is set to 'Automatic (recommended, Metal on 10.11+)' might be worth looking at this too.

Let me know how you get on!

[benorbeen]

Thank you for your followup, Jur451c. You might not be an expert, but these are new things for me to try.

1. Thank you for recommending adding "Kind" as a column in Activity Monitor. I did not know about that. It showed mostly Apple items, but a few Intel.

Of note, iZotope's Product Portal was one of the Intel processes, along with some processes apparently related to it. I force-quit those. I'll monitor to see if this has any effect, because, as a default, I do use iZotope plugins with FX turned ON.

iZotope's website confesses the Product Portal "is compatible with Intel Macs & Apple silicon (M-series) Macs in Rosetta only."

2. I'm not seeing a dock icon like what you described, so I think that's a good on that point. I think I saw that dock icon when I was using iZotope plugins that were running as x86_64. After I upgraded those plugins, that dock icon didn't show up again.

3. I'll also try a opening a new session and importing audio. I usually work with a default template I created, so doing what you suggest will be something new to try.

4. My Advanced UI/system tweaks > Display updates is set like yours: "Automatic."

As I record throughout the next couple days, I'll see what befalls me.

[benorbeen]

Following up on this post around my use of Reaper 6.80 on a New Macbook Air 15-Inch with 24GB memory…

* I think above I miswrote it as 32GB. It's 24GB.

… I have not seen my issue since making a certain change.

My issue was essentially that, eventually, the meter/ruler atop the waveform would scroll on playback, but the playhead and waveform would be stuck in play or lag. I would hear playback, and the meter/ruler would scroll according to playback, but the playhead and waveform would not be in synch.

Using the Magic Mouse, I would be able to fly around the recording per the meter/ruler, but the waveform would not fly accordingly, appearing to lag. It was a visual mess.

Since making the following change, I have not seen the issue again in a couple days:

================================================== ===
1. REAPER > Settings > General > Advanced UI/system tweaks…
2. Toggle "Display updates" to "Disable all optimized drawing (reduces GPU use)"
================================================== ===

For now, I'm attributing doing this to fixing my issue. Of course, there are a symphony of other settings, but I think this change is the main one between 6.79 working well on my Pro and seeming on my Air but not 6.80 on my Air (with the synching/lagging issue).

I'm not sure what this change actually does, or why my new Air can't seem to handle "optimized drawing," if indeed it can't.

I plan to follow up in the event I find this approach did not in fact fix my issue.

Thanks for reading. Chime in if you end up having this issue, benefit from this conversation, or have a different approach to fixing it.

[Justin]

Does the slowdown (in Metal mode) happen at first open or does it take a while to take effect?

[benorbeen]

Hi Justin,

From what I saw, the slowdown when Display updates was set to "Automatic, recommended, Metal on 10.11+." the ruler/meter going out of synch with the waveform during playback happened after a bit of time. Maybe 10 minutes? It wasn't usually immediately.

From what I think I was observing, shutting down Reaper resolved the issue immediately, until it would creep back in.

Since disabling all optimized drawing under Display updates, I have not seen the issue recur. (Thankfully.)

[Justin]

Thanks. Do you have a second display configured too or would this happen with only a single display active?

[benorbeen]

That's a very interesting question. I'm wondering why you would ask that, so if you could explain, it may help me better understand the Display updates configuration.

In fact, I do have a second monitor. It is a USB monitor. However, I experienced the issue on my Air's display. When I experienced the issue, I don't think I dragged Reaper over to my USB monitor to see if the issue would show on its monitor.

[Justin]

Can you see if the issue occurs with the separate monitor disconnected (and Metal re-enabled obviously)? Trying to narrow things down…

Can you also tell me what REAPER shows in the system Activity Monitor, GPU Usage % tab, when this slowdown is happening and some continuous drawing is hapoening (eg continuous scroll during playback)?

[benorbeen]

So far for you, I have disconnected my USB monitor and changed Reaper Display updates settings to Automatic. During a session, I did not see the issue I was having in the original post occur.

I am now back to working with the USB monitor connected (though not using Reaper on it), and keeping the Reaper Display updates set to Automatic. I have not seen the issue occur yet in a short recording session, but I will keep things set like this over my next recording sessions to see if I can re-trigger it. I hope I can report back with news either way.

[benorbeen]

Okay, this issue is back.

Specifically, I'm observing the playhead is lagging during playback.

- Reaper 6.80
- Using Reaper on Air's display
- Display updates set to Automatic
- USB monitor plugged in to Air

Not sure if this is meaningful, but:

- Dragged Reaper over to my USB monitor
- The lagging playhead issue resolved immediately
- Dragged Reaper back over to my Air display, the issue was still resolved

Eventually, Reaper starting showing the issue again after a short recording. Repeating the dragging to USB monitor fixed the issue, and dragging it back to Air, it was fixed.

[benorbeen]

And by "fixed," I mean temporarily fixed. While in Automatic, eventually on my Air's display, the lagging playhead issue would return.

[Justin]

OK some more questions:

1) is the external display configured as the primary monitor?

2) is the external display retina/hidpi?

3) are any REAPER windows (e.g. the mixer) open on the external display when the issue occurs? If you place the mixer on the external display does that prevent the issue from occurring?

[benorbeen]

You asked:

1) is the external display configured as the primary monitor?
A: No. The USB monitor is configured as an "Extended display."

2) is the external display retina/hidpi?
A: It is not a retina display. It is currently set to 1920 x 1080. It is not set to 960 x 540, which my Air says is "(HiDPI)."

This is the USB monitor I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S51QDTG/

Technically, it goes into a hub, where my Air and my PC share it. (Meaning, sometimes it's an Extended display for my Air, and at a push of a button, it becomes an extended display for my PC.)

3) are any REAPER windows (e.g. the mixer) open on the external display when the issue occurs? If you place the mixer on the external display does that prevent the issue from occurring?
A: My Reaper has lived fully on my Air whenever I've had the lagging playback issue.

I hope that helps!

[Justin]

Thank you for all of the info! One more request - can you duplicate with the external display connected directly and not via the USB hub?

[benorbeen]

I'm afraid that might be one step too far for me to try, but if I get the "courage" to mess with that, I'll report back. I don't want to start messing around too much with my setup.

[Justin]

Hmm, I've acquired similar hardware, trying to reproduce but I can't.

Can you duplicate starting from a portable install, and without using any third-party plug-ins?

Can you make a screenshot of your entire desktop so I can see what's going on (which REAPER windows are open, etc)?