CC curve drawing borked in 7.07

[songshop]

Cannot change CC shape away from square in CC lane in midi editor. All RHM menu option in CC lane are greyed except square. Action list CC curve
options seem to not work either. Completely broken

g

[Tale]

Check Options > CC/velocity lane from the MIDI editor, because there are options to allow CC shape for bank (CC#0), LSB (CC#32..63), and sustain (CC#64) lanes, and maybe those options are currently disabled.

[songshop]

Originally Posted by Tale

Check Options > CC/velocity lane from the MIDI editor, because there are options to allow CC shape for bank (CC#0), LSB (CC#32..63), and sustain (CC#64) lanes, and maybe those options are currently disabled.

Great! thanks so much Tale. What a dumbass default state to ship in. I wish dev's would actually use software before shipping it in a broken state.

g

[schwa]

Originally Posted by songshop

Great! thanks so much Tale. What a dumbass default state to ship in. I wish dev's would actually use software before shipping it in a broken state.

That's not very nice to say. If those CC lanes are mapped to their default uses, applying curve shapes to them will have undesired results. For example if you are using CC 33-63 as LSB values, then curving between values will result in essentially random 14-bit values. But if you are using those lanes for uses other than the defaults, then you can enable the option to allow curve shapes in those lanes.

I think it makes sense for REAPER's default behavior to match the default CC lane definitions. I could see an argument for letting you change that preference from the same context menu where you set the shapes, though.

[songshop]

Originally Posted by schwa

That's not very nice to say. If those CC lanes are mapped to their default uses, applying curve shapes to them will have undesired results. For example if you are using CC 33-63 as LSB values, then curving between values will result in essentially random 14-bit values. But if you are using those lanes for uses other than the defaults, then you can enable the option to allow curve shapes in those lanes.

I think it makes sense for REAPER's default behavior to match the default CC lane definitions. I could see an argument for letting you change that preference from the same context menu where you set the shapes, though.

Not a matter of nice! It wasted a great deal of my time. Out of the box, the only curve applied by Reaper is square. Stupid. Not useful at all. Without these check boxes checked, as mentioned above, that's how it is. There is no sense at all in shipping Reaper 7.x with CC curve defaults that simply don't work. It's crazy. I've used Reaper since V4 - it's never behaved like this. Add new features by all means, but don't break feature sets in doing so. Enable those check boxes! If someone had tested Reaper 7.x as a midi editor, they would walk away.

g

[schwa]

Originally Posted by songshop

Out of the box, the only curve applied by Reaper is square.

That's incorrect. The option only affects bank select, LSB, and sustain lanes.

Originally Posted by songshop

I've used Reaper since V4 - it's never behaved like this.

That's incorrect. REAPER has only supported non-square CC shapes since v6.0, and the option and default behaviors have not changed since then. Prior to v6.0, each CC event was displayed and edited as a standalone bar, rather than as a series of connected points.

In any case we will add the option to change this behavior to the CC lane context menu, in addition to the options menu where it is now.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by songshop

Not a matter of nice! It wasted a great deal of my time. Out of the box, the only curve applied by Reaper is square. Stupid. Not useful at all. Without these check boxes checked, as mentioned above, that's how it is. There is no sense at all in shipping Reaper 7.x with CC curve defaults that simply don't work. It's crazy. I've used Reaper since V4 - it's never behaved like this. Add new features by all means, but don't break feature sets in doing so. Enable those check boxes! If someone had tested Reaper 7.x as a midi editor, they would walk away.

g

Substitute STUPID with UNDESIREABLE FOR MY WORKFLOW.

[songshop]

>> REAPER has only supported non-square CC shapes since v6.0, and the option and default behaviors have not changed since then.

irrelevant.


I say again, the ONLY option to me was square. CC means continuous controller. Square is toggle on/off ONLY. It's useless for CC. The fix for this was checking boxes that should have been checked by default on program delivery. Check the boxes by default so menu options function nprmally and this problem doesn't exist!

>>In any case we will add the option to change this behavior to the CC lane context menu, in addition to the options menu where it is now.[/QUOTE]

Great!

[songshop]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Substitute STUPID with UNDESIREABLE FOR MY WORKFLOW.

thanks so much for taking the time to add this hilarious quip.

[joeyx]

Originally Posted by songshop

>> REAPER has only supported non-square CC shapes since v6.0, and the option and default behaviors have not changed since then.

irrelevant.


I say again, the ONLY option to me was square. CC means continuous controller. Square is toggle on/off ONLY. It's useless for CC. The fix for this was checking boxes that should have been checked by default on program delivery. Check the boxes by default so menu options function nprmally and this problem doesn't exist!

>>In any case we will add the option to change this behavior to the CC lane context menu, in addition to the options menu where it is now.

Great![/QUOTE]

You could also say "thank you, schwa" for implementing your (redundant) feature request. Although I am sorry you wasted a lot of time trying to find where this option already existed. It's never fun to waste time menu diving when you'd rather be making music.

The default behavior is logical because it follows actual MIDI specification. I.e. each CC lane is not just a lane with no original intention. Each lane has a previously designated existing use as specified by the MIDI Manufacturers Association. Even with the default behavior on, you could have used 40+ other CC lanes and had whatever curve you wanted.

In all seriousness though, what is your use case for having every curve available for every CC lane?

[songshop]

Originally Posted by joeyx

Great!

You could also say "thank you, schwa"

Thank you Schwa.

for implementing your (redundant) feature request.

?? Huh??


The default behavior is logical because it follows actual MIDI specification. I.e. each CC lane is not just a lane with no original intention. Each lane has a previously designated existing use as specified by the MIDI Manufacturers Association.

Not so, less than 1/2 are designated.

In all seriousness though, what is your use case for having every curve available for every CC lane?

I am a composer, creating Orchestral scores (60 + trx) using extensive midi manipulation via CC (Continuous Controller - a designation from the Midi Assoc. - not some midi on/off switches!) In previous versions it has always been possible to create even linear curves between node. In 7, with these checkboxes unchecked, I can only get SQUARE connections between nodes. Useless out of the box. Tried 7.0001 - 7.07. Had to revert to 6.85 for normal operation. I will have nothing more to say about this now, but to suggest that this is redundant behaviour is ridiculous. Userland wants options not restrictions.

From day 1 I have been able to make smooth curves, whatever the geometry Schwa. But not with 7.

g

[schwa]

Originally Posted by songshop

In previous versions it has always been possible to create even linear curves between node. In 7, with these checkboxes unchecked, I can only get SQUARE connections between nodes. Useless out of the box. Tried 7.0001 - 7.07. Had to revert to 6.85 for normal operation.

For completeness/correctness: the behavior is exactly identical in all versions of REAPER since v6.0. By default, curves are allowed in most CC lanes, but not in CC0 and CC32-63. In all other lanes, curves are allowed by default. If you enable the preference, then CC shapes are allowed in all lanes.

The only change in any of this behavior is that in the new 7.08 build, the option to change the disallowed-shape preference is in the CC lane right-click menu, as well as the MIDI editor options menu.

If you are seeing different behavior between versions 6 and 7, it's either because (a) you are comparing different CC lanes in different versions (I think this is most likely) or (b) you have multiple installs with different configurations and you changed the default behavior on the v6 configuration.

It's fine to argue that the default should be different, but to be clear, this is not a v7 issue. The behavior has been the same ever since v6.0.

[akademie]

BTW, good informative insight on the subject, schwa.
Thanks a lot