Old 12-30-2008, 05:54 AM   #1
BackToThe1986
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Default ReaVerb and Halls of Fame IR?

hello

will ReaVerb handle True Stereo IR of Halls of Fame or should i purchase something like Pristine Space to use them?

cheers
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:15 AM   #2
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hello

will ReaVerb handle True Stereo IR of Halls of Fame or should i purchase something like Pristine Space to use them?

cheers
ReaVerb should handle stereo IRs just fine.

But maybe True Stereo IR is some sort of new format that I have never heard of ... in that case it probably won't handle them.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:30 AM   #3
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ReaVerb should handle stereo IRs just fine.

But maybe True Stereo IR is some sort of new format that I have never heard of ... in that case it probably won't handle them.
"True stereo" impulse responses have 2 x stereo files. (A stereo IR for both the left and the right channels of the input.)

ReaVerb doesn't load quad files directly but maybe some routing magic in Reaper could be done to enable a passable solution. (If the IR files are 2 separate wav etc files instead of being in quad or some proprietary format.)
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:55 AM   #4
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[ EDIT: This is not the right way to do it, read Justins post below ]

I just tried this with ReaVerb and it works great (with wavs, anyway). I set the track to have four channels then fx like this:

* a splitter (I used ReaEQ without any settings, just used the plug-in pin connector to route its output to 1/2 and 3/4)
* ReaVerb (input 1/2) with the left-to-stereo impulse loaded and pan set to max left
* ReaVerb (input 3/4) with the right-to-stereo impulse loaded and pan set to max right
* a joiner (I used Losers 3BandJoiner that comes bundled with Reaper)

Regards,
- Jonas

Last edited by Jonas_Eriksson_Swe; 12-31-2008 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 12-31-2008, 05:54 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
"True stereo" impulse responses have 2 x stereo files. (A stereo IR for both the left and the right channels of the input.)

ReaVerb doesn't load quad files directly but maybe some routing magic in Reaper could be done to enable a passable solution. (If the IR files are 2 separate wav etc files instead of being in quad or some proprietary format.)
Ahh... that makes sense. Didn't know that. Interesting information, thanks.
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Old 12-31-2008, 11:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jonas_Eriksson_Swe View Post
I just tried this with ReaVerb and it works great (with wavs, anyway). I set the track to have four channels then fx like this:

* a splitter (I used ReaEQ without any settings, just used the plug-in pin connector to route its output to 1/2 and 3/4)
* ReaVerb (input 1/2) with the left-to-stereo impulse loaded and pan set to max left
* ReaVerb (input 3/4) with the right-to-stereo impulse loaded and pan set to max right
* a joiner (I used Losers 3BandJoiner that comes bundled with Reaper)

Regards,
- Jonas
Hmm, if it were me, I would do the following:
  • track set to 4ch.
  • reaverb, load left impulse, inputting both inputs from track channel 1, outputting stereo to track channel 3/4.
  • reaverb, load right impulse, inputting both inputs from track channel 2, outputting stereo to track channel 1/2.
  • reaeq, inputting left from channels 1 and 3, right from 2 and 4. output to 1 and 2 (stereo).

This would give you the correct matrixing....
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:13 PM   #7
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Ah, that makes sense. Would there be any efficiency gains (CPU-wise) if ReaVerb could do stereo-to-stereo convolution directly in one instance?

I used the free Samplicity impulses when testing this, and they sound much better using true stereo-to-stereo convolution (even done the wrong way : ) compared to mono-to-stereo. Which I guess means that should redo some of my homemade impulses...

Regards,
- Jonas
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Old 01-01-2009, 12:30 PM   #8
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Ah, that makes sense. Would there be any efficiency gains (CPU-wise) if ReaVerb could do stereo-to-stereo convolution directly in one instance?
It would still use more CPU than a single ReaVerb instance, although probably less than 2 ReaVerb instances uses now.. I'll look at updating it for that at some point.

-Justin
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:21 PM   #9
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I'll look at updating it for that at some point.
That would be nice.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:45 PM   #10
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I used the free Samplicity impulses when testing this, and they sound much better using true stereo-to-stereo convolution
Nothing there on Samplicity at the moment. Any other links to "True Stereo" impulse responses?
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:16 PM   #11
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Nothing there on Samplicity at the moment. Any other links to "True Stereo" impulse responses?
Here are the ones I tried http://www.samplicity.com/download/index.html

Regards,
- Jonas
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:55 PM   #12
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Thanks!

But WTF: The L and R files (48kHz WAV) from the 'Church 5' demo cancel out completely when doing phase inversion on one file!? That's true stereo?

SOLVED


My reverb send tracktemplate:
reaverb-true-stereo.rtracktemplate -> Did I got the routing correct?

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-09-2010 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
My reverb send tracktemplate:
http://www.outburst-audio.com-/maik/reaverb-true-stereo.rtracktemplate -> Did I got the routing correct?
Looks right to me (but I've been wrong before : ), havent had time to checka that Church IR...

Regards,
- Jonas
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:02 PM   #14
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havent had time to checka that Church IR...
Looks like I did something wrong. They don't cancel out completely. Just up to about -98dB ...
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:22 PM   #15
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Default Cancelling out to 98% logical

That may be logical depending on how far apart the mics were placed in the original church hall. If they were fairly close together and the impulse source was equidistant then the overwhelming majority of the attack part of loud soundwaves would hit the mics together.

The stereo effect may only be noticeable in the after wash of sound. If the mics are too close then the whole effect may be lost anyhow (or at least 98 odd percent of it.

Well up to -98db (there should be greater differences in the decay part).
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:37 AM   #16
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Looks like I did something wrong. They don't cancel out completely. Just up to about -98dB ...
Maybe I wasn't wrong and they just uploaded the correct files because I wrote to them about the issue
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:38 AM   #17
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That may be logical depending on how far apart the mics were placed in the original church hall. If they were fairly close together and the impulse source was equidistant then the overwhelming majority of the attack part of loud soundwaves would hit the mics together.

The stereo effect may only be noticeable in the after wash of sound. If the mics are too close then the whole effect may be lost anyhow (or at least 98 odd percent of it.
Yeah I know.
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Old 01-09-2010, 06:27 AM   #18
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It would still use more CPU than a single ReaVerb instance, although probably less than 2 ReaVerb instances uses now.. I'll look at updating it for that at some point.
Put as request into tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1843
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:29 AM   #19
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Realizing that I knew little to nothing about True Stereo convolution and impulses... I did a little digging around the LiquidSonics site and came up with this page that has some neato info on it, describing 3 routing schemes their uses and where they are typically found in algorithmic reverbs:

http://www.liquidsonics.com/software...rue_stereo.htm

I'd love to see ReaVerb realize that kind of capability.

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Old 01-11-2010, 02:55 AM   #20
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Default dual impulse response with pre-delay

Another interesting feature is to be able to have two impulses loaded with a configurable pre-delay (for at least one) for use with separate early reflections vs. reverb tail impulse responses. It would certainly simplify routing a bit for that particular (and quite commonly used, afaik) type of configuration, and keep things together in the GUI department. And if it would also lead to more efficient use of CPU, great.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:23 PM   #21
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Sorry about the thread necromancy, but I'm curious if anyone actually got this working properly, i.e. true stereo using two instances of Reaverb or any other convo verb. I've tried setting this up using Reverberate LE but TBH I'm not sure I'm doing it right. My experience with the routing matrix is very limited and I could really use some pointers.

Maybe someone who got it working would like to share a track template even?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:36 PM   #22
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It's not too easy to do this correctly using non true stereo convolvers, but if you try it in Reverberate (not Reverberate LE) you should find it's very simple. If the IRs are named in a manner like <xyz>l.wav and <xyz>r.wav it will even automatically set the correct true stereo pair up for you when in true stereo mode.

In order to use standard stereo convolvers involves a fair bit of bussing, two instances of a convolver, and to keep the settings consistent between the two. You could do this with Reverberate LE, but if you use a true stereo convolver like Reverberate any enveloping and filtering will be consistent across the stereo pair which is very useful. There is a demo of Reverberate if you would like to try it out:
http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm

Hope this helps

Matt
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by liquidsonics View Post
It's not too easy to do this correctly using non true stereo convolvers, but if you try it in Reverberate (not Reverberate LE) you should find it's very simple. If the IRs are named in a manner like <xyz>l.wav and <xyz>r.wav it will even automatically set the correct true stereo pair up for you when in true stereo mode.

In order to use standard stereo convolvers involves a fair bit of bussing, two instances of a convolver, and to keep the settings consistent between the two. You could do this with Reverberate LE, but if you use a true stereo convolver like Reverberate any enveloping and filtering will be consistent across the stereo pair which is very useful. There is a demo of Reverberate if you would like to try it out:
http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm

Hope this helps

Matt
Heh, in fact I have the demo installed and Reverberate is definitely a plug I'm planning on buying as soon as my financial situation is sorted out. (Actually I'm kind of on the fence between Reverberate and YT Origami, but as both are fairly priced I might end up purchasing both.)

I was mainly curious if it's possible to "fake" true stereo with two stereo convolvers, as getting a true stereo convo verb isn't within my budget ATM.

Great work on Reverberate BTW. I was very impressed with the demo, and its little brother is my go-to convo verb.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:14 AM   #24
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OK, I have no idea if this is right but I've attached a track template if anyone wants to have a look (and a laugh) at it. Like I said I rarely do any complex routing.

I've tried to mimic the true stereo routing as described in the doc that Tallisman linked to, based on Justin's instructions. I fail to see why ReaEQ is needed though. Admittedly I might have set it up all wrong, but when I insert it last in the chain, it almost seems as if it ruins the stereo image. It doesn't quite make the reverb mono, but it appears to center the wet signals. What did I do wrong?

I think my main problem here is that I don't know what it should sound like. Maybe the difference isn't as dramatic as I'm expecting

And oh, this template requires Reverberate LE and the T600 Natural Hall IR's from Samplicity (or any other L/R impulses, of course).
Attached Files
File Type: zip True Stereo test.zip (5.3 KB, 215 views)
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:44 PM   #25
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Hmm, if it were me, I would do the following:
  • track set to 4ch.
  • reaverb, load left impulse, inputting both inputs from track channel 1, outputting stereo to track channel 3/4.
  • reaverb, load right impulse, inputting both inputs from track channel 2, outputting stereo to track channel 1/2.
  • reaeq, inputting left from channels 1 and 3, right from 2 and 4. output to 1 and 2 (stereo).

This would give you the correct matrixing....
Justin, are these setup the way you explained? Thanks.

Edit: I think that I have routed the reaverb's wrong, right? I have added alternative_reaverbs_routing.jpg for you too look at too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg reaeq_routing.jpg (44.9 KB, 411 views)
File Type: jpg reaverb_left_impulse.jpg (46.9 KB, 360 views)
File Type: jpg reaverb_right_impulse.jpg (47.9 KB, 423 views)
File Type: jpg track_4channels.jpg (26.0 KB, 359 views)
File Type: jpg alternative_reverbs_routing.jpg (14.5 KB, 284 views)

Last edited by ickefes; 01-17-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:51 AM   #26
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Justin, are these setup the way you explained? Thanks.

Edit: I think that I have routed the reaverb's wrong, right? I have added alternative_reaverbs_routing.jpg for you too look at too.
You might want to check this thread out.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=107409
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:01 PM   #27
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You might want to check this thread out.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=107409
Thank you, Tod. It seems my alternative_reaverbs_routing is correct then. Hopefully my ReaEQ too. Regards.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:55 PM   #28
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Bump?
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:39 AM   #29
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Bump what ? Tod already did point to the how-to.
(There are several threads on doing true stereo reverb with four channel impulse files in the forums.)

-Michael
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:02 AM   #30
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Bump what ? Tod already did point to the how-to.
(There are several threads on doing true stereo reverb with four channel impulse files in the forums.)

-Michael
Hm, haven't Justin written you should load 2 instances of ReaVerb and 1 of ReaEQ, not only one instance of ReaVerb?
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:57 AM   #31
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I did do a true stereo reverb with two instances of ReaVerb and and two associated impulses from Samplicity M7 just for drum overhead. Sounds great to me.

-Michael
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:25 AM   #32
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I did do a true stereo reverb with two instances of ReaVerb and and two associated impulses from Samplicity M7 just for drum overhead. Sounds great to me.

-Michael
Old posts from Justin: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...38&postcount=6
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...98&postcount=8
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:53 AM   #33
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Yep. You need just "something" in the end of the FX chain to sum up the 4 channels to two to send them as stereo to the mixer. Of course ReaEQ is a good choice, but it can be anything, as Reaper can do summing at tie input "pins" of a plugin.

-Michael
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