Old 08-02-2009, 10:26 AM   #1
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Default Reaper Bay of Media

After posting this feature request in the issue tracks:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=796

I thought it might be nice for everyone who needs this to write down why here. The issue tracker thread is for votes only. I'll start.


01 Keeping preselected material that isn't in the timeline handy for use.

02 Searching in session material for other takes that were recorded but are not in the timeline.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:58 AM   #2
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if you mean a 'pool' like in cubase...

than I don't really care, but I think that it should be integrated in the Media explorer.

however the media explorer should get some attention before it will be practical enough for this...

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=733

with a tree display, you could easily arrange a proper folder for all the files in the project.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
if you mean a 'pool' like in cubase...

than I don't really care, but I think that it should be integrated in the Media explorer.

however the media explorer should get some attention before it will be practical enough for this...

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=733

with a tree display, you could easily arrange a proper folder for all the files in the project.
it is obvious that you have never really mad proper use of the pool like in Cubase.

++1
from me

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Old 08-02-2009, 12:33 PM   #4
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Actually for starters, I meant more like the simplest of versions of this, being the item list in Protools.

Please keep in mind that you can do a lot of things with such a list. You can find material for use in your project, find rendered files you've made without having to hunt them down in the timeline anywhere if you know parts of their name. You can make functions to export material from your media list to any place in any format, and a function to remove all unused material of the session before you save a copy of it for transfer or backup.

Folders in such a list, or simply multiples of this list in one window, each of these lists savable to a file for recall in other projects, would seriously cut down on search time.

Also, think of this as templates of media collections, which is what we do a LOT in post production. We spot what we need, then usualy collect material in lists to use. The trouble is that Protools only has one of these lists, but we could sure use a lot more of them. Picture cutters never had this problem. Their media list system has always been in place, but after AudioVision, a DAW with the best media list system so far, was discontinued we've only had this turd called the Protools Region List to work with.

I'm hoping Reaper can do better.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
it is obvious that you have never really mad proper use of the pool like in Cubase.

++1
from me

greetings
.t
actually I've used the pool in cubase non stop...

I just think that the media explorer can replace this IF it will get more attention from the devs...maybe a separate "bay" window that can be docked to the media explorer.

anyway got my +1.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:22 AM   #6
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I've posted a document over in the Issue thread, but you can grab it here too. It describes a lot of stuff about media lists, what you could do with it in detail, and how they might look.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/196072/ReaBINs.pdf

A practical way to keep multiple of these media lists in use is quite a challenge. The document contains some ideas, but please feel free to post your own. I'm not sure I envy the developers for coming up with something that works efficiently.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:34 AM   #7
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Organization in any form is crucial.

Yes, great idea airon
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:54 PM   #8
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Here's another small idea of how to organize different media lists.



=edit=

and another small idea for using space down there more efficiently, as quite a few of us have widescreen monitors.



The left-most column displays the type of list entry.

a - audio
m - midi
and hopefully(crossing fingers)
s - sequences
p - ReaParts

A friend of mine is sending along some shots of Logic 8 tomorrow(hopefully). There are some clever ideas in that one too, although Logic doesn't seem to keep multiple media lists/bins.
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:20 AM   #9
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does this mean that everytime that I copy/duplicate a item, I will see it twice in the project's pool? o0
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:14 AM   #10
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I don't think so. This is one of the details that the developers will need to figure out. We've gotta let them have some fun too.

Old Protools tacks on a number like '-01' and adds a new entry to its media list, as soon as you make a change, like trimming. As long as it's the exact same, there wouldn't be another entry. Those new entries are then kept beneath the original but in non-bold text, unlike the regular entries that are bold text though still quite small.

Here's a shot of how PT handles its one measly media list.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:16 PM   #11
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Does anyone have shots of other Media Bay isotopes of other apps ?
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:18 PM   #12
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Since promoting a sense of urgency to feature requests is en vogue I am suggesting this request be renamed Reaper Bay of Media Pigs to align it with the critical urgency of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Organizing media in a library, as it's recorded, edited and even discarded becomes very important as a project grows. For music, post production and other kinds of editing organization of this kind allows us as users to maximize the resources we have. Larger and more elaborate collaborations and procedures are possible. It doesn't need to be fancy or complicated. Just make it search as much of those beautiful plain text files that Reaper creates as possible (templates, presets, sessions) and give a meaningful search result.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Does anyone have shots of other Media Bay isotopes of other apps ?



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Old 08-06-2009, 10:15 PM   #14
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Logic's Media Manager is a very good example of how this should work, thanks Lawrence.
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:05 AM   #15
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I think the big change for Reaper will be referencing and tracking files that are not actually on the timeline in the project.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #16
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Thanks for the great shots.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:53 AM   #17
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+100 for a Reaper Bay like a media bay of cubase we are a lot of producers to work with samples loops, to cut slice etc...

And only two Daws today have this Live and cubase others daws don't have preview of sounds in timeline.

The next keys of Reaper's sucess is this features and not the sample delivred or the additional plug ins !

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Old 08-13-2009, 09:55 AM   #18
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never had too much of a use for this
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:08 AM   #19
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I'll post a shot of Protools 7.3.1 next. Protools has the simplest of lists, though it lets you do a lot of things with the stuff you select and has a search function, much like our filters in Reaper.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:25 PM   #20
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I've put together a small video to show what the region list in Protools does.

You can view it on Youtube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agi84bLWbGY

Hit the HD button and go fullscreen to get the 1280x720 version.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:51 AM   #21
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Woho. We need more votes for this.

Call on anyone to come in and vote for this. Once we have this feature, none of will want to miss it. Just ask any Live, Logic or Cubase user.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Actually for starters, I meant more like the simplest of versions of this, being the item list in Protools.

Please keep in mind that you can do a lot of things with such a list. You can find material for use in your project, find rendered files you've made without having to hunt them down in the timeline anywhere if you know parts of their name. You can make functions to export material from your media list to any place in any format, and a function to remove all unused material of the session before you save a copy of it for transfer or backup.

Folders in such a list, or simply multiples of this list in one window, each of these lists savable to a file for recall in other projects, would seriously cut down on search time.

Also, think of this as templates of media collections, which is what we do a LOT in post production. We spot what we need, then usualy collect material in lists to use. The trouble is that Protools only has one of these lists, but we could sure use a lot more of them. Picture cutters never had this problem. Their media list system has always been in place, but after AudioVision, a DAW with the best media list system so far, was discontinued we've only had this turd called the Protools Region List to work with.

I'm hoping Reaper can do better.
Have to agree most NLE's have quite good media lists, sorting etc. IMO in the Daw world fairlight Medibase is pretty good, the Nuendo Pool & PT region list pretty poor. But yes Reaper is very badly served in this dept.

I would like something very much like Total Commander.Maybe this app itself integrated into Reaper.

I really like the 2 pane/window approach, great for simultaneously showing filtered & complete lists (TotCommander has a search ability that puts Windows or PT Digibase indexed searches to shame & is staggeringly faster than the "find files"/re-linking function in PT or Nuendo. It is quite possible to have filtered results in one pane and wahtever you wantEg a possible destination folder in the other pane. 2 panes are the ideal way to copy or move files, compare 2 lots of files (say to identify duplicate content), so many things inc a tree & files, Windows Explorer style if you wish.
In saying integrated I mean stuff like files in a session & if used or not,and if used how many times. Link the play/audition files function into Reaper & have the ability to insert selected files on the Reaper timeline.

BTW how do you get images in a reply, and why did my PNG file become a JPEG?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TC.jpg (61.4 KB, 215 views)
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Have to agree most NLE's have quite good media lists, sorting etc. IMO in the Daw world fairlight Medibase is pretty good, the Nuendo Pool & PT region list pretty poor. But yes Reaper is very badly served in this dept.
You mean the media base of the MFX 3 systems ?
That one was useful, but hardly user friendly when I think of what Avid systems do or even just the crude but useful search function of Protools' region list. I just have bad memories of the Fairlights. It was the only way to search media and was a bitch to feed metadata to.

I wouldn't want to imply that Reaper get a system to replace the likes of Soundminer, which is highly specialized and very fast for post work. It serves purposes similar but not identical to what I'd expect from DAW internal functions.

Quote:
I would like something very much like Total Commander.Maybe this app itself integrated into Reaper.

I really like the 2 pane/window approach, great for simultaneously showing filtered & complete lists (TotCommander has a search ability that puts Windows or PT Digibase indexed searches to shame & is staggeringly faster than the "find files"/re-linking function in PT or Nuendo. It is quite possible to have filtered results in one pane and wahtever you wantEg a possible destination folder in the other pane. 2 panes are the ideal way to copy or move files, compare 2 lots of files (say to identify duplicate content), so many things inc a tree & files, Windows Explorer style if you wish.
In saying integrated I mean stuff like files in a session & if used or not,and if used how many times. Link the play/audition files function into Reaper & have the ability to insert selected files on the Reaper timeline.
Some goodies in that program. You might want to illustrate your ideas for the media list thingy stemming from this program in more detail however. I've been a user of Windows/Total Commander for over ten years, and can fathom using the copy/move/delete/mkdir functions to move references around in bins, but many here may not.

Quote:
BTW how do you get images in a reply, and why did my PNG file become a JPEG?
Upload your image to stashbox.org or ************** or any other that permits direct links. The tool at shup.com is a good one for such tasks. Then paste the url to the image here and encase it with the IMG tag.

Code:
[img]url to image file[/img]
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post


Upload your image to stashbox.org or ************** or any other that permits direct links. The tool at shup.com is a good one for such tasks. Then paste the url to the image here and encase it with the IMG tag.

Code:
[img]url to image file[/img]
thank you kind sir.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:15 AM   #25
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Alright, it's time to bring this request back up on the table. I see we're counting 43 votes, and that means not everyone who may need this knows about that feature request.

Do you ladies and gentlemen think that posting more graphical mockups would help ?
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:46 AM   #26
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For a detailed overview, remember that you can check out the PDF I posted in the issue tracker as well.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/196072/ReaBINs.pdf (182 kB)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K1SGSE9P (MegaUpload Mirror)
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:27 AM   #27
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Yes, +100. Especially with PiPs on the horizon.
Thanks for taking the time to write the ReaBINs.pdf file, looks good.

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Old 10-11-2009, 08:43 AM   #28
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I took a screen shot from Cubase 4:

Media bay:
[img]http://img11.**************/img11/6576/mediabay.png[/img]
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:10 AM   #29
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Btw, from what I've understand, you are talking about a pool which shows the files inside a project, unlike cubase's media bay which is more for taging files (organization of presets/files).

fix me if I'm wrong because I've requested MetaData which is something like Cubase's MediaBay.

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1312
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:16 AM   #30
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It is definitely useful.

I need some place where to put temporarily unused items. As a workaround I add one permanently muted track and drop unused pieces there. But it is not practical when number of tracks is getting big or when I want to put aside a whole section of a track.

So I would to have a possibility to put entire selections of items (and regions of track) somewhere. And it can be somehow extended even to include Arrangement request. And may be someday even to Ableton Live's like Session View.

Combination of this FR and two other I mentioned can lead to extremely powerful functionality! And just keeping track of items would be a good start already.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:11 AM   #31
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Here's a quick and useful demo of a library/bin system as Pyramix from Merging Technologies uses it.

By far it's the most useful I've seen yet. What he creates for that block of ambiences is called a sequence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGayEYqc0r0&fmt=18 (library part from 2:13 to 3:40)

----------------------------------------
Their music editing video is quite useful, showing further library/bin system use, and showing off their docking/undocking functionality of windows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AVN4Ov9k3M
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
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never had too much of a use for this
That will change

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Old 11-25-2009, 01:14 PM   #33
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Here is a very simple example of a positive.

Media that has been removed from the project timeline and additionally moved to the trash to distinguish what is currently being used and what is not (Remove Unused Media). If you notice, the part in the project trash can still has it's regions intact so even if you restore it back to the project later those regions within the audio file are still marked.

Below it's one region, "Ending", that even outside of the project retains it's entry / exit points in the pool. It fully tracks every file in the project until you physically delete or remove it from the project.

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Old 11-25-2009, 01:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Here's a quick and useful demo of a library/bin system as Pyramix from Merging Technologies uses it.

By far it's the most useful I've seen yet. What he creates for that block of ambiences is called a sequence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGayEYqc0r0&fmt=18 (library part from 2:13 to 3:40)

----------------------------------------
Their music editing video is quite useful, showing further library/bin system use, and showing off their docking/undocking functionality of windows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AVN4Ov9k3M

Pyramix got my attention...

gonna check it
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:41 PM   #35
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Sws has created a first version of a media management solution. I hope this doesn't eat in to the DAWs performance though. I routinely pass the 1000 mark during dialogue editing.

Still, this is a leap ahead. Maybe it'll spark a native solution for Reaper. Nice going Sws.

Here's a shot of it where it shows what the project has in it.

[img]http://img697.**************/img697/5444/swsmediapoolfirstversio.png[/img]
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:44 PM   #36
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Any update on this? It's the biggest feature I am missing in reaper.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:08 PM   #37
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I figure this is coming for v4 in some form or another.

If there's something you need a session and outside media management to do, post it here please.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #38
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+1 for all the reasons listed. I would be referencing it all the time.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:18 AM   #39
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Ok, since this is in fact starting to take shape for v4 alpha, anyone interested in this part of Reaper may wish to jump to this thread :

>> v4: Project Media/FX Bay
Get in there and take a look at what's been done so far, and voice your concerns and bring forth arguments for improvements.
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