Old 01-29-2007, 03:18 AM   #1
Sam Spacey
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Default Great waveform view idea (DONE)

I read about an audio editer that had the option to view waveforms
with the energy they have in them i.e Low frequency energy comes up Red and High frequency energy comes up as Yellow. That way you can easily see sa[y the bass drum in a track and gives a good overall view of the track.
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Old 01-29-2007, 03:38 AM   #2
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I think this is called spectral view, or spectral analyze. Views frequency strengths rather than waveform amplitude.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:38 AM   #3
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You can use a VST plugin for this - google for Sonogram SG-1 for instance.

In Audition you can actually edit in the spectral view - lasso a frequency and then apply any effect to it without affecting other frequencies (or even delete it altogether). Not something I think we shall see in Reaper in the near future. Yup, I'm being provocative.

Some of that functionality is built into Adobe's "Soundbooth" beta currently available for free download - it's a rather smaller download than Audition's trial, but still upteen times bigger than Reaper's!

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Old 01-29-2007, 10:07 AM   #4
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I've never been able to use the "spectral view" for anything useful, it drives me nuts because it looks cool - but it's utterly confusing, IMO.

What this guy is saying I believe, and I think it would be cool because I've suggested it before, is to have the *waveforms* colored based on their spectral balance.

It would haven't to be in real time, maybe a "redraw with spectrum" feature. The cool thing about it would be that at a glance, you could make a quick appraisal of what is going on with a tune - you would see the bass track because it would look different, and see where maybe there's a part where the guitar and keys are occupying the same range... you'd see cymbal hits as bright white, kick drum hits a dark red, etc...

You could effectively learn to "read" the tonal range of what something sounded like by looking at it. It would be nice from a visual-location standpoint (you'd be able to instantly see where a guitar part went from a deep open chord to a higher melody part, for instance) and it would also perhaps be useful from giving a different objective reference...
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spacey View Post
I read about an audio editer that had the option to view waveforms
with the energy they have in them i.e Low frequency energy comes up Red and High frequency energy comes up as Yellow.
http://www.comparisonics.com/color.html

you mean this?

i would like to see this in Reaper, but only _after_ the basic peakfile-overview is "enhanced"..

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Old 02-04-2007, 04:29 PM   #6
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yeah, comparisonics is pretty nice (samplitude). in samplitude you also can switch to a mode, where only the upper half (y-axis, volume) of the waveform is shown. pretty useful (gives you more space), as most waveforms are symmetrically anyway...

DONE (5.60)

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Old 02-04-2007, 04:35 PM   #7
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Comparisonics is a nice mode, if the precision should be less or more sharp (to display more or fewer details).


Another thing great for viewing program material would be to show many "normal" overviews (like takes) for parts of the spectrum - so it would look like a sample destructively edited with filters (only bass, or only the low mids, or only the heights - with user-selected crossovers). Maybe a plugin could be inserted on any FX slot to get the data from this point so you could see what's happening on this track ?
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:40 PM   #8
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And another mode would be something like a built in editor with auto-cutting into regions on the fly - to edit audio like midi items (move them with or without automation, time-compress/expand, etc.) and then simply close the editor to destructively update the wave or to make it a new take.

Kind of similar to ReCycle or Melodyne, only simpler.
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:57 PM   #9
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There was a great write up on Spectral image viewing and EDITING in EM magazine a while back. It was a review for Audition 2. The guy demonstrated using the spectral view to cut out the sound of a baby crying during a live orchestra recording. He removed the frequency where the baby was heard loudest and replaced it with adjoining data. It worked very well. You could download the before and after clips. Amazing stuff IMO.

D

PS It may have been in SOS... can't remember for sure.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:57 PM   #10
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@schwa: come on, you're the waveform hero





but they have a patent on it, right?

http://www.comparisonics.com/gallery.html



Also what about a mode, where Reaper just would display on channel of the waveform + only the upper half of it? It's really easier and better to work on low zoom levels when recording bands IMO as you only record mono tracks anyway or stereo tracks with almost the same info on both channels.
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #11
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while we're talking about such things,

why not a settable HPF for peak-display too?



btw, before this.. please make the current peak drawing FASTER - lighter, my PC dies when having 30-40 tracks of audio in Reaper (but not in Vegas, etc). Zooming and scrolling is (still) a nightmare for me..


i dont want to imagine how SLOOOOOW my DAW would be using comparisonics algo in Reaper..
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
@schwa: come on, you're the waveform hero
Proof, in case he denies it:
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
yeah, the waveform at the top is exactly what i've explained in my second request:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Also what about a mode, where Reaper just would display on channel of the waveform + only the upper half of it? It's really easier and better to work on low zoom levels when recording bands IMO as you only record mono tracks anyway or stereo tracks with almost the same info on both channels.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
@schwa: come on, you're the waveform hero





but they have a patent on it, right?

http://www.comparisonics.com/gallery.html

The guys on http://www.freesound.org use some similar waveform display:



http://www.freesound.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1114
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:39 AM   #15
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this was really helpful in samplitude.

EXTREMELY helpful
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:57 AM   #16
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exactly. gives you much more information about the SOUND.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:07 AM   #17
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but it looks horrid.
I am sure it would still be useful.
and a worthy addition. but its ugly.


.t
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
but it looks horrid.
I am sure it would still be useful.
and a worthy addition. but its ugly.


.t
T, the ugly ones still perform ok.

Don't they?

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Old 09-14-2008, 08:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
a worthy addition. but its ugly.
Ugly? see video http://www.comparisonics.com/ColorWaveformDemo.mov
Look how compares the sound of a siren to a woman scream




LOL!
+1111

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Old 09-15-2008, 05:25 AM   #20
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I would like to see this implemented, if not their own 'Prettier' version.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:42 AM   #21
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From the Comparisonics site
Quote:
Comparisonics® patented invention: colors are derived automatically from the frequency content of audio and used to paint the waveform display, making it possible to see the audio
...but only if you're prepared to pay them.


I hope they don't disregard all those who invented the many technologies they depended on for research & development so they could slap a patent on their "invention".

We talked about this color for frequency idea at school decades ago - we just weren't arrogant enough to pretend the idea was ours to own.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:58 AM   #22
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The Freesound guys use this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_centroid
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:24 AM   #23
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Doable in JS ... Aldi?
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Doable in JS ... Aldi?
but thats realtime only, no?

imo we could really use something that shows it fixed on the timeline, for reapitching and editing...
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
but thats realtime only, no?

imo we could really use something that shows it fixed on the timeline, for reapitching and editing...
Yes, I agree, it wouldn't really be useful as a scrolling realtime view.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Yes, I agree, it wouldn't really be useful as a scrolling realtime view.
it would be pretty though
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
...but only if you're prepared to pay them.
Can they patent only their specific algorithm, or the simple idea of showing audio that way?

If so, I the osciloscope iventor must be the richest man!
Could I patent an insult?
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:43 PM   #28
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Default like it

I like the idea of the waveform displaying more information.

Imagine a pitch analysis as well ... the audio would be analyzed as soon as it was recorded and colored in a way that would let you see how much it matches a certain key (or not).

Then, being able to retune according to a piano roll display, straight on the track, would be incredible (DP has it and it is just killing).
Kinda Melodyne essentials.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:05 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
but it looks horrid.
I am sure it would still be useful.
and a worthy addition. but its ugly.
Trust me, once you got used to it you don't wanna miss it. It's VERY helpful when working with audio!
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:31 AM   #30
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Default half-waves please!

rectified half-waves would be extremely useful. It's way easier to judge relative levels like that once you get used to it. Sonic Solutions did this for a while, it's great.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:09 PM   #31
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Here a cool example from Samplitude:

samplitude.png

-> vertically zoomed-in waveform (upper half) of a studio recording

black = room ambience
other colors = instrument

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Old 11-04-2008, 04:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Here a cool example from Samplitude:



-> vertically zoomed-in waveform (upper half) of a studio recording

black = room ambience
other colors = instrument
Dstruct... I am struggling here mang!
I have nothing but respect for you and your knowledge heh, but that is fugly.
Fuglier then full waveforms doing the same colour barf thing.

I can only imaging what an arrange window packed with them pee-oh-esses looks like. I truly hope I am wrong, because the idea is very cool. How is that better than a spectrograph-like view? The rainbow bit at the end looks like a GUI problem.

yikes! I want to like it

.t
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Dstruct... I am struggling here mang!
I have nothing but respect for you and your knowledge heh, but that is fugly.
Fuglier then full waveforms doing the same colour barf thing.
I know that it's not a beauty. But it gives you much more information about the content of the sound. You really can see what's going on. I couldn't believe it myself first. So useful (especially for band recordings where you have dozens of audio takes and tracks).


Looking at standard waveforms is like looking at things with closed eyes in comparison


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
The rainbow bit at the end looks like a GUI problem.
Because it's zoomed-in (horizontally) pretty much.



Try out the Comparisonics Audio Player to see it in action: http://www.comparisonics.com/CSplayer.html



-> load some guitar or vocal track and compare the information you get from it (vs standard waveform drawing) ...

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Old 11-04-2008, 05:08 PM   #34
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i'd still love to have faster zooming/scrolling with the current "normal" peaks..




after that - i'd be happy to have any other peak display method.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:41 PM   #35
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I downloaded the program posted above... actually it's quite nice after laying with it, but I agree looks like $@#%... I think it could be just as useful with a more limited but more pleasing palette, or better yet: user definable
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:11 PM   #36
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here's my attempt at showing what it might look like in reaper, with a toned down color treatment:

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Old 01-13-2010, 08:03 AM   #37
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Put into feature request tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=30



Here the latest freesound player: http://media.freesound.org/files/newplayer (can be switched to show spectrum too) ...
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:10 PM   #38
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Comparisonics is very useful indeed.

I think that spectrum view is more informative (and looks better too ^^)

I hope to see both options in the future ^^

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1599
Quote:
Spectrum view.

it could be done with actions:
"Enable spectrum view for selected files"

pic:
[img]http://img410.**************/img410/456/spectrumview.png[/img]



more info from the discussion thread:


the spectrum view is much more informative (once you can read it), you can use it for everything, from arrangment to mixing and even to trace a sound that is being played since it is much faster to trace the sound by watching the spectrum view, because it shows you more infomative details-> details that your brain actually recived by the ears.

both views has their place, however spectral view has much more to offer these days...and it can also open a great door for a built in real-time spectral editing in reaper in the future, this would open some beautiful possibilities for sound editing in the arrange view.

[img]http://img163.**************/img163/2807/spectrum.png[/img]

[img]http://img526.**************/img526/7096/arrangementwaveform.png[/img]
[img]http://img209.**************/img209/6375/mixingarrangementspectr.png[/img]
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:50 AM   #39
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I really like the idea of that spectrum view! Especially helpful if the existing increase/decrease peaks view gain actions could be used to "amplify/attenuate" the visual reading of all the spectrum displays
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:07 AM   #40
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I'd really love to see Comparisonics wave form display added to Reaper.

Comparisonics is the main reason why Samp is still my preferred DAW for editing. That and the fact that I can turn the volume up past 0db on the object (clip) volume handles. Reaper only let's me turn the volume down on a Clip (Object).

If reaper added those 2 features it would likely jump from a secondary DAW to first place in my studio.

Both of those features make editing in Samp a breeze.
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