Old 03-25-2010, 11:31 AM   #1
Evan
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Default Music notation buttons

update: they're now available

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/529/eva..._set1_v1.0.zip



---
Ok I am working on some notation buttons

Before I finish them off and upload them:

1) Where do I tell users to unpack them? I have them in the reaper/data/toolbar_icons folder and they work. Maybe they need to be theme-specific?

2) Where is the right place to upload them?

3) Let me know of any suggestions, ideas etc...

thanks

Last edited by Evan; 03-28-2010 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:32 PM   #2
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1) Right there is fine. Users can edit icons if they want them theme specific. If you let them to, that is. If you used Inkscape, and if you provide the masks that you used (if you used them), then that could be of help!

2) Stash is fine.

3) Why didn't you use an actual 32nd, 64th and 128th note? Also, "T" can be anything. If you used ⌐3¬ like that, with brackets, that would be MUCH better and descriptive, and visually more appealing.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:23 AM   #3
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Oh, does Reaper have Score editor allready?!

If so, I would like the Staff to be customizable:
- number of lines (I want 6, for 6-6 music notation)
- ----------------- line customizable to be a specified note and place and switchable per a bar!!!
- no need for me of: ♭ ♮ ♯

Example:

___________________________
___________________________
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Sol or G, for me it should be just: S)
___________________________
___________________________
___________________________

- the notation to be devided in two (optional) stuffs (like the one above) each for each hand (if you play piano)!
- custom note names: D, R, M, F, S and so on even ♯C to be named like: B
- 12 custom names or more if you use more than 12 Equal Temoerament

i know that is far ahead of our time but anyway, I had to ask for it...
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
- no need for me of: ♭ ♮ ♯
The notation would not make any sense without of this. It's a prerequisite to have accidentals in order to write music normally.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:11 AM   #5
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not realy, it is simpe as pie:

1. Just give the names for the rest 5 (which make pentatonics in fact)
2. That is all, no need of: ♭ ♮ ♯
3. Remake the stuff as I suggested and you are ready to go

12 tones, 6 lines-stuff with a ---------- line for a chosen tone (sol) and that is all. I's a bit wider but more correct and representative of what you realy play.
Now stuff is made of keyboardist thinking, convinient keyboard layout which is too complex. Long story...
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:21 AM   #6
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You see, I'm a pianist. I want my ♭ ♮ ♯ in my notation. I have no sympathy for you guitarists (although I do play some guitar myself). Why change something that was proven efficient over centuries?

That's inventing boiling water.


Now, if you asked for SEPARATE tablature view, I might agree. But when real score notation is concerned, I want it as close to the real thing as it gets. And that includes accidentals and everything!


Actually piano keyboard layout is really easy. One point on it is one note. It's not like on guitar where you can have one note on several points, which is in fact more confusing generally speaking.
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:09 AM   #7
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Since there's no notation in Reaper yet, the original intention of these buttons was for the MIDI editor. I wanted the midi editor to look more musical.

I have set the note values to set the grid subdivision (although they don't stay pressed at the moment). The flat/sharp can be set to transpose by a semitone. And I just threw a few more basics in.

I'm interested to hear about your ideas.

I will make the icons available with the template so they can be transferred to all themes.
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
3) Why didn't you use an actual 32nd, 64th and 128th note? Also, "T" can be anything. If you used ⌐3¬ like that, with brackets, that would be MUCH better and descriptive, and visually more appealing.
I used a freeware notation font which went only up to 16ths. I suppose I can hack it to 32nds with some graphic editing but definitely no room for more than that.

I used the "T" because it's what the grid editor dropdown box uses. But I agree that ⌐3¬ is a lot more musical (I will change it to that). Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:24 AM   #9
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I'm working for you, Evan

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=14


Keep your fingers crossed


P.S.: I can send you a Sibelius font which has notes up to 128th if you want.
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:28 AM   #10
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You know what, that would be even more awesome! Using the buttons to change the input note size, while keeping the existing box for the grid.

PS. Would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:30 AM   #11
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I know right!


You could also make 8va and 8vb buttons for transposing selected notes n octave up or down

I'm making a font for you now.
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You could also make 8va and 8vb buttons for transposing selected notes n octave up or down
I will definitely do that too!
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:22 AM   #13
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Here's the font:

Attachment 7555


Mapping:

1 - nota breva (two whole notes length)
2 - whole
3 - half
4 - quarter
5 - eighth
6 - 16th
7 - 32nd
8 - 64th
9 - 128th
0 - "3" for triplet (without brackets )
' - musical dot
! - #
" - b
# - neutral accidental
a - ppp
b - pp
c - p
d - mp
e - mf
f - f
g - ff
h - fff
o - c (4/4 time)
q - treble clef
w - bass clef
x - 8va
y - 8vb


Use antialiasing

Last edited by EvilDragon; 12-08-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:30 AM   #14
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Thank you! I am on to it.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:12 AM   #15
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EvilDragon, it is all a matter of a Point Of View.

Piano keyboard is complicated when it could be just symmetrical (two or even one form for a min chord, maj chord, scales, whatever...). That is what I have in mind.

So for the MIDI Editor you say, Evan. Nice one!
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:52 AM   #16
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ouch... the 32nd, 64th and 128th notes are getting taller and taller! I will have to reduce the font size to make them fit. But the other notes will look too small then, and if I reduce only for 32/64/128 they will look disproportionate. Hmmm... I might go for the latter and see.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:14 AM   #17
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You could always try with:

2[sup]x[/sup]
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Piano keyboard is complicated when it could be just symmetrical (two or even one form for a min chord, maj chord, scales, whatever...). That is what I have in mind.
Then you don't need a piano keyboard (leave it to the pianists, like me ), you need a MIDI controller which is based on harmonic table:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7OeRkXWTtQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
ouch... the 32nd, 64th and 128th notes are getting taller and taller! I will have to reduce the font size to make them fit. But the other notes will look too small then, and if I reduce only for 32/64/128 they will look disproportionate. Hmmm... I might go for the latter and see.
Yeah that's a bit of squeeze.

May I suggest just lowering the flags altogether while keeping the notehead size?

Last edited by EvilDragon; 03-27-2010 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 03-27-2010, 01:45 PM   #19
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Er... no (Axiom 64 is good but nothing more). I was ready almost ready to buy a Wholetone Revolution Keyboard a month ago but couldn't find drivers for Windows 7 or any drivers at all for it. Maybe compatibilty mode could od the job but I quit it anyway.

And with a conventional keyboard a friend of mine has I'm gonna transform it into this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGUD58gp6Fk

and wanted this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLrex...eature=related

6-6 Jankò design and conception
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:00 PM   #20
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Yeah that is all cool and well, but I don't see myself using it.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:07 PM   #21
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Of course...
It is almost like someone to tune my guitar to a let's say maj9 chord and rip the neadlocks out and tell me to play any of my songs.

I have to learn them again, so I understand you very well. I cannot play piano but always wanted to since I was 12 or 11 but that keyboard (conventional) pissed me off every time I tried to play it.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:36 PM   #22
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Heheh... it's all a matter of practice. I started out when I was 6 and look where I am now... nowhere! :P

Tastes aren't to be discussed, truth is that conventional keyboard is not perfect, but it's not really the hardest thing to grasp in this world... At least it's linear and one-dimensional, whereas a guitar is linear, and six (seven-,insert-custom-number-of-strings-)dimensional
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:05 PM   #23
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Here is a new version. Waiting for comments

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Old 03-27-2010, 03:07 PM   #24
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Looking megagreat!

Maybe add "fz", "sfz", "pf" as well?
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Maybe add "fz", "sfz", "pf" as well?
They're not in the notation font? I could hack it with the 'p' and 'f' letters but there's no 'z'
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:11 PM   #26
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These are great Evan and I will definitely use a few of them.

The "b" and "#" for transposeing semitones.

The "1/16", "1/8", "1", etc. for setting the grid.

Heh heh, my problem and question is "how many icons" can I get in the midi toolbar?

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Old 03-27-2010, 05:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Heh heh, my problem and question is "how many icons" can I get in the midi toolbar?
Same problem here

I wanted to do just a few icons at first, but then I decided to do the whole set for future-proofness. You never know when they may come in handy.

I've set up a couple of FRs that would help with the toolbars issues:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=54770
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=54757

And EvilDragon made some nice suggestions that would help utilize these buttons:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=14

I think this needs to go into the FR forum and ask for actions that would make good use of musical/notation buttons.

I am all for making the midi editor (and reaper in general) a more musical (looking) tool.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:13 PM   #28
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Sorry, a stupide question because understand english langage isn't easy for me.
These icons are nice, but I want to know something.
Reaper hasn't a score editor as Cubase, for example. So, how to use these icons ?
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:20 PM   #29
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You can use the note buttons for adjusting grid size in MIDI editor currently (and if Cockos heeds my request, select a note length for new note input). You can use # and b for transposing selected notes up or down. You can use 8va/8vb for transposing selected notes an octave up or down.

These icons will be VERY useful in the future when Reaper actually gets a score editor.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:44 PM   #30
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Merci.
Other solution : I've never found a plug vsti score editor.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #31
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If we can get actions for 8 preset velocity values (from very low to 127), then the ppp through fff can be mapped to that also.

The legato icon could be used for a 'legato' action, which joins the selected notes so that they overlap in time slightly.

(none of the above exist, just throwing ideas)
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:44 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You can use the note buttons for adjusting grid size in MIDI editor currently (and if Cockos heeds my request, select a note length for new note input)
I think that note lengths should be independent of the grid size as it is in Cubase. I would also like a feature where note length can be expressed as a percentage of the grid size, which is something I really miss from my RM1X step sequencer. The addition of such features would take a lot of the pain out of MIDI editing.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:20 AM   #33
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Very nice, Evan -- thanks so much for these!

-Susan
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:18 PM   #34
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hi
I too am formally trained and have been pushing for serious notation within the midi editor since day one. Atm I am using Sibelius rewired and it works ok. But I think that this is a good step towards more of what id like to see

thanks for your effort it is a appreciated

Kind regards
Andy
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
If we can get actions for 8 preset velocity values (from very low to 127), then the ppp through fff can be mapped to that also.

The legato icon could be used for a 'legato' action, which joins the selected notes so that they overlap in time slightly.

(none of the above exist, just throwing ideas)
I would definitely vote for this as with other ideas mentioned on this thread.
Anyway, preset input velocities for mouse/key input would make creating drum passages a lot smoother as most of the time you already have the idea of where accents are and the general dynamics.

BTW - Fantastic work Evan - really cool and awesome. Thank you

Last edited by arkima; 04-26-2010 at 03:39 AM. Reason: mistake.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:53 PM   #36
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I just want to chime in and say great work and well done Evan, along with everyone else contributing to this music notation button concept. I can put these to use myself.

Shane
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