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Old 07-14-2010, 12:57 AM   #1
FermentedDigeridoo
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Default Read'em and Reap - A Little Confused with Reaper but thanks Nonetheless

First of all - thanks, Cockos, for the wonderful software. You are making my life a lot easier with it.

Second - allow me to introduce myself. I am an emerging film composer and have many credible works behind me and in the works. See me on my website http://radio3.cbc.ca/bands/Sean-Goresht. Only my latest track has been uploaded, but I plan on uploading more once I work a little with the film director.

The reason I switched to Reaper is the versatility of the 64-bit engine, ReWire support, and support with Linux (yes, I am a Linux fan).

Finally - why I'm a little confused. I've pretty much succeeded in setting up an orchestral template. What's confusing me, however, is that my second instance of Kontakt no longer plays sound even when Record Monitoring is set ON on both the audio and MIDI tracks respectively. Something along the way of what I do (grouping, colouring, etc.) seems to mess things up. When I add the second instance of Kontakt, all audio works fine... it's something I'm doing in between. So that's the first reason I'm confused.

The second problem is that I don't know the CC values of the envelopes (on the respective MIDI tracks) when I insert them. Is there a way to see this? I just want to control the CC value of 7 (volume) on Kontakt. Would that be the "send volume"?

The third problem I'm having is the ReWire setup with Notion. Notion's ReWire client IS registered and shows up in Reaper. It's just mind-boggling to me how to get started routing all my MIDI tracks to Notion. What's the best way of doing this? Is there a tutorial anywhere I can see? Am I only limited to controlling 16 MIDI tracks in Reaper through the ReWire setup?

This probably belongs in Noobieland, but the last time I posted something there, no one responded. I hope I'll get more of a response this time.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:23 AM   #2
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Hi and welcome to the forums, FermentedDigeridoo.

Sad thing you didn't get responses in Newbieland. Must have gotten under the radar, or nobody knew a helpful answer.

As of your first Q, best move would be to upload a project (no audio files required) that shows the problem, maybe we can go through your routing and find the culprit that way. At the bottom of the reply formular you find a button to "Manage Attachments" which will allow you to attach a reaper project or a track template file (amongst other filetypes).

2) There are two main methods to deal with CC in Reaper. The simplest would be to open the MIDI piano roll editor and open a CC lane to show CC7. (chapter 12.4 onwards in the user guide).

Or you insert an instance of ReaControlMIDI in an insert slot before Kontakt (or on a track sending MIDI data to the track with Kontakt). This allows you to control CC7 (and a bunch of other things MIDI) in an automation lane in the arrange area. A (alas,very brief) introduction can be found in Chapter 16.15 of the user guide, assign a parameter to the track automation either from the plugin's "Param" button or via the envelope button on the track header.
Send volume is another thing, it controls the volume of track (audio) sends you have assigned, does nothing on MIDI.

3) I don't know much about ReWire and Reaper, but one known limitation is indeed the 16 channels of MIDI limit . Hope someone else chimes in on this (and of course also on the other issues).

Hope this helps a bit. Awaiting the example Kontakt routing project to check.
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
What's confusing me, however, is that my second instance of Kontakt no longer plays sound even when Record Monitoring is set ON on both the audio and MIDI tracks respectively.
Hi FermentedDigeridoo,

First of all I think you only need the Record Monitoring set ON for the Midi track but not the audio track. At least that's the way it works for me.

As far as you're 2nd instance of Kontakt not playing sounds goes, do you have them in folders. Personally I prefer not to use folders because the routing can get a little confuseing, but then that's me. I keep all Kontakt instances, midi tracks, and audio tracks as their own dedicated tracks and I haven't had any problems.

Quote:
The second problem is that I don't know the CC values of the envelopes (on the respective MIDI tracks) when I insert them. Is there a way to see this? I just want to control the CC value of 7 (volume) on Kontakt. Would that be the "send volume"?
What gofer says here is right and you can also set up 2, 3, or more other lanes for other CC#s like cc1, cc11, etc.. This is the way I prefer to do it.

Quote:
2) There are two main methods to deal with CC in Reaper. The simplest would be to open the MIDI piano roll editor and open a CC lane to show CC7. (chapter 12.4 onwards in the user guide).

I'm sorry, I don't use ReWire.
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Hi and welcome to the forums, FermentedDigeridoo.

Sad thing you didn't get responses in Newbieland. Must have gotten under the radar, or nobody knew a helpful answer.

As of your first Q, best move would be to upload a project (no audio files required) that shows the problem, maybe we can go through your routing and find the culprit that way. At the bottom of the reply formular you find a button to "Manage Attachments" which will allow you to attach a reaper project or a track template file (amongst other filetypes).

2) There are two main methods to deal with CC in Reaper. The simplest would be to open the MIDI piano roll editor and open a CC lane to show CC7. (chapter 12.4 onwards in the user guide).

Or you insert an instance of ReaControlMIDI in an insert slot before Kontakt (or on a track sending MIDI data to the track with Kontakt). This allows you to control CC7 (and a bunch of other things MIDI) in an automation lane in the arrange area. A (alas,very brief) introduction can be found in Chapter 16.15 of the user guide, assign a parameter to the track automation either from the plugin's "Param" button or via the envelope button on the track header.
Send volume is another thing, it controls the volume of track (audio) sends you have assigned, does nothing on MIDI.

3) I don't know much about ReWire and Reaper, but one known limitation is indeed the 16 channels of MIDI limit . Hope someone else chimes in on this (and of course also on the other issues).

Hope this helps a bit. Awaiting the example Kontakt routing project to check.
Hi there,

Thanks for the help! Glad to hear from someone this time!

I can't attach the project file in question due to an unknown forum error:

Upload Errors
Kontakt FOURTH Try.RPP:
Upload of file failed.

The file is 4.5 MB.

Yes, I used folder tracks in my project... you'll see that I organized everything precisely by articulation. Perhaps it is the organization along the way that messes up the audio routing.

As for CC, thanks a lot. A small thing like ReaControlMIDI is just the kind of answer I wanted to hear. I'll get to testing that the next chance I get.

That sucks that I'm only limited to 16 MIDI tracks across DAW. ReWire's 16-track limit is quite annoying if you are dealing with over 40 individual tracks and different articulations. I'm sure, however, that Internal MIDI ports would provide a good alternative to ReWire. Even then, you could just write a draft in your DAW of choice and export to whichever you prefer for audio post-production.

Let me know how I can post the project. Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:09 AM   #5
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Dang, 4.5 MB is too big for an attachment. You could either dumb it down until it fits (but I believe it's Kontakt itself blowing it up with a huge settings section) or upload it to https://stash.reaper.fm/ and put a link here (you need to create an account for uploading to stash, but it's absolutely painless - it doesn't even need an email address).

I am pretty sure the routing is messed by the use of folders. Avoid having VSTi directly on a track that is folder parent. Though it is tempting to do so, if you have the VSTi's audio outputs inside the same folder you are creating feedback routings.

The ReWire protocol would allow multiple MIDI ports, but Reaper's implementation doesn't. I hope this will be fixed at some point. Yes, I think you can use virtual MIDI ports to dodge the limitation.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FermentedDigeridoo View Post
The file is 4.5 MB.
I suggest stripping the project only to tracks that are in question
and not including any audio media with the upload. You should
get the file to less than 200kb (not sure what the limit for .zip
files is though, should be written in the upload dialog).

Edit: ahh beaten by gofer
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:27 AM   #7
FermentedDigeridoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Dang, 4.5 MB is too big for an attachment. You could either dumb it down until it fits (but I believe it's Kontakt itself blowing it up with a huge settings section) or upload it to https://stash.reaper.fm/ and put a link here (you need to create an account for uploading to stash, but it's absolutely painless - it doesn't even need an email address).

I am pretty sure the routing is messed by the use of folders. Avoid having VSTi directly on a track that is folder parent. Though it is tempting to do so, if you have the VSTi's audio outputs inside the same folder you are creating feedback routings.

The ReWire protocol would allow multiple MIDI ports, but Reaper's implementation doesn't. I hope this will be fixed at some point. Yes, I think you can use virtual MIDI ports to dodge the limitation.
Ok, thanks. I'll make an account tonight sometime.

In passing, I'd like to point Notion users to their video tutorials: http://www.notionmusic.com/support/tutorials.html.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:53 PM   #8
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You can have 16 channels of midi per instance of Kontakt, not 16 total.
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:37 PM   #9
FermentedDigeridoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FermentedDigeridoo View Post
Ok, thanks. I'll make an account tonight sometime.

In passing, I'd like to point Notion users to their video tutorials: http://www.notionmusic.com/support/tutorials.html.
Made an account on Reaper Resources. I get this message:

This file is either far too big or much too small.

Am I having bad luck or what? The file is 2.6 MB. Maybe I'll zip it up and post it in several parts. We'll see...
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:02 PM   #10
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Looks like it's already too late. I've fixed all my problems. It's just as we thought initially: I had a feedback loop going on with the track folders.

Thanks for all your help, guys!
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