Old 07-20-2010, 08:58 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
What makes Nebula reverbs "better" than standard convolution reverbs? Have they managed to implement some element of algorithmic randomness that makes the decay more "lively"? This Nebula thing is interesting, but unfortunately I'm on a laptop most of the time, it might not be useable for me
Well that depends which reverb you're talking about.

My primary go to reverb is the EMT140 plate (one of the commercial third party libraries). The Nebula programs are flat out the best EMT140 I've ever heard, no exceptions. Some people say they still prefer the UAD variant because of the built in filters; for me, I'll take the Nebula version plus an EQ any day.

Then there are room reverbs, mainly the ones sampled by CDSoundmaster in the Producer Pack II set (also a third party commercial library). In addition to all the usual suspects (halls, medium and small rooms) the wood room is just awesome. It's completely unlike algorithmic or plate reverbs which is probably why I like this library so much.

Then there are reverbs sampled from famous high end digital units. Most of these are either free programs by users (like the PCM91 stuff on Nebula-Programs) or part of the commercial library (like the 70 series stuff). If you're into those kinds of units, these are apparently fabulous representations of a wide variety of presets. Personally this kind of verb isn't my cup of tea so I won't rave about it but I know people use these programs a lot (I've made some use of the 91 programs here and there).

There is a rumor floating around that a Bricasti library is forthcoming. No details are yet available other than, apparently, this will be a free third party library.

Since this is a thread on compressors (which, as I mentioned, is probably the real weak spot for Nebula) I would suggest searching the forums for more info on Nebula, it's not really appropriate for this thread. There are a lot of threads out there. As I've said before, using Nebula will remake your workflow, it's CPU intensive; that's probably going to be true whether you're using a laptop or an i7. The upside is that you won't find other plugins (much less in the price range) that can do sonically what Nebula can do. If workflow is the primary concern (deadlines, clients watching you mix, no time for a lot of stem rendering) then Neb might not be for you. If you put your workflow second and the sonics first, then it might be just right.

Just so this post isn't totally tangential...the Nebula compressor programs (the ones I use most are the ones from CDSoundmaster's Retro Analog Studio package) do an amazing job of adding the color of particular famous compressors (there are some 1176 settings, a very bright Fairchild, to name a few). Adding those with a very clean compressor (I usually use Bombardier or ReaComp due to great flexibility with both) can offer a pretty amazing hardware-ish sound. It surprised me to learn (but I'm now convinced) how much frequency curves play a role in a compressor's sound even with no envelope following occurring.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:26 AM   #42
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The OP seems to have come to some conclusions regarding his questions, so would it hurt to stray off-topic for just a little longer? (last question) Would you be able to upload a short example of some Nebula reverb you love? If so, separate dry and wet audio files would be most useful. I've got the free version but I've not been astounded with it so far tbh, but I'll happily be shown otherwise!

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Old 07-20-2010, 09:56 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
The OP seems to have come to some conclusions regarding his questions, so would it hurt to stray off-topic for just a little longer? (last question) Would you be able to upload a short example of some Nebula reverb you love? If so, separate dry and wet audio files would be most useful. I've got the free version but I've not been astounded with it so far tbh, but I'll happily be shown otherwise!
OP says....

OK let's morph the topic to -- ITB Compressors -- Where for art thou ?, cause just about everything else is covered ITB.

Done. Now we're on-topic

Nebula uses a Volterra series (as opposed to the more common Taylor series - it is based over time rather than a one shot impulse) and a lot of other tricks to get its sound -- think of it as convolution on steroids including the computing resources required -- but the results -- Oh Man -- first time I was impressed by an EMT 140 emulation - I used the real thing in the 70's and 80's and I used to own the UAD 140 !

The EQ's are hands down the closest thing I've heard to capturing that hardware "vibe" and even if they don't nail the hardware perfectly, they're close enough to be incredibly musical and useful.

I too was nonplussed by the Nebula free engine / libraries, the commercial stuff (engine and 3rd party libraries) definitely takes it up a notch or 17 !

That said I still went for the Lexicon LXP native for that "Lex" sound.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
The OP seems to have come to some conclusions regarding his questions, so would it hurt to stray off-topic for just a little longer? (last question) Would you be able to upload a short example of some Nebula reverb you love? If so, separate dry and wet audio files would be most useful. I've got the free version but I've not been astounded with it so far tbh, but I'll happily be shown otherwise!

cheers
Here are a bunch of audio samples of the Real Spaces reverbs from the Producer's Pack 2 set.

Here are a bunch of audio samples of the EMT140.

I've read awesome things about the Lexicon native package that Geoff is referring to; that was not out yet when I started with Nebula but it may render the Nebula PCM programs a bit less sought after (although they still, apparently, sound 'exactly' like the units/presets they were sampled from).

For me, the thing I depend on Nebula for is tape and console/pre emuluation. Sure, you could get 2 channels of Anamod for what, $3000 plus expansion cards? The R2R package (which includes Studer 2", Otari 1/4", Wollensak 1/4" and several other machines at different speeds, a variety of input levels, many on a variety of tapes) is $100 (let's even say $140 to include the TapeBooster+ library, which is actually worth it) plus the cost of Nebula itself. And you never have to calibrate anything or wait for your deck to get out of the shop or buy tape.

Likewise if I could afford it I'd love to have an SSL 4000, API 1608, RND 5508, Sphere Eclipse, Triton B series laying around the studio...but the truth is I can't afford even one of those. There are examples of the consoles here.

But what Goeff Waddington said is important to remember: it's an investment into third party libraries that really makes Nebula stand apart. It's not "expensive" by plugin standards (the most expensive 3rd party library is the R2R, I believe, and most libraries run under $50) but it's not all free, either. And also the impact to workflow, which is not insignificant (and is the most common complaint about Nebula; you never really even hear the haters complaining about the quality, though).
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:03 PM   #45
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jeroen breebart's plugins are worth a look. Herre's an ipressive bit from his bio "Jeroen is a Principal Scientist and Cluster Manager at Philips Research"

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:08 PM   #46
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Just a quick update on the latest:

The pricing these days on the CLA bundle is getting pretty hard to resist, I've seen it as low as $300

Added the Steven Slate VCC beta to the arsenal -- watch this one closely when it's finally released, sounds damn good already, and I suspect it will get even better.

Although not really compresors, they do a very "gluey" compressor-like thing.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I am happy with:

My new build -- 980x, 12Gb, blah, blah....

EQ's -- Nebula / Analog in the Box -- Mammoth, 1073, API, and DW Fearn
EQ's -- Reaper digital EQ's for surgical stuff

Reverb -- Nebula VNXT Plate 140
Reverb -- Currently auditioning Lexicon LXP and PCM native -- will be going with one or the other.

Compressors -- Bombardier -- nice buss compressor

But...

The Bombardier doesn't turn my crank for general use.
Neither does anything else I've tried (yes, most, if not all, of the usual suspects). None of them feel like the old hardware I used to use -- they don't have the sound vibe I recall from "back in the day"

I really need:

La-2a (or similar opto)
1176 (or similar FET)
Fairchild (or similar vari-mu)

to round out the processing at my disposal.


I know it's been taken around a gazillion times, anything new and succulent out there?
Doubling my sample rate seems to make even my cheap plug-ins sound great.

I am at 88.2khz btw.


For Hardware emulations though UAD cards are great.
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:18 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgrimes11
Doubling my sample rate seems to make even my cheap plug-ins sound great
Yes, I now use all plugins in upsample mode as well, if available.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:50 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Just a quick update on the latest:

The pricing these days on the CLA bundle is getting pretty hard to resist, I've seen it as low as $300

Added the Steven Slate VCC beta to the arsenal -- watch this one closely when it's finally released, sounds damn good already, and I suspect it will get even better.

Although not really compresors, they do a very "gluey" compressor-like thing.
Yeah. Very tempting indeed. I'm leaning towards the API, but the CLA gets you way more compressor flavors.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by jlgrimes11 View Post
Doubling my sample rate seems to make even my cheap plug-ins sound great.

I am at 88.2khz btw.
How do you upsample plugins in Reaper?
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #51
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i'm sort of surprised that the artsacoustic cl jammies never even got a passing mention.
it sounds like you made some pretty good choices though

k
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:29 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelldammit
it sounds like you made some pretty good choices though
Thanks, now I just have to come up with the talent to do the technology justice
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #53
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my compressors of choice:


[single band]

cytomic - the glue
http://www.cytomic.com/glue

stillwell - the rocket
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=68

PSP old timer:
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/.../psp_oldtimer/

Waves - CLA compressor series
http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=9297


[multi band]

waves - Linear Phase Multiband
http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=209

Flux alchemist
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/alchemist
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:58 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by toot View Post
jeroen breebart's plugins are worth a look. Herre's an ipressive bit from his bio "Jeroen is a Principal Scientist and Cluster Manager at Philips Research"

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/

From his website....


VST plugins

Short story: there are no VST plugins here anymore!

Long story: We're going through some important changes to improve the quality, efficiency, and usability of the plugins.

We also received many requests on 64 bit platform and Mac support, a better mechanism for updates, and alike.

This is now all work in progress, and we hope to launch a completely new set of plugins soon! In the mean time, we have decided to remove the 'old' plugins from the website. Support for existing customers will continue nevertheless.



Looking forward to the result!!!!!!
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Old 10-30-2010, 06:02 AM   #55
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Yeah I've been talking to him as I was writing a whole series for ObiAudio on his plug ins and then that happened! Lol he said he'll be back with some amazing plugs for us really soon! (We're talking 2011 though just so you don't think like next week soon... )
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Old 10-30-2010, 07:43 AM   #56
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The js np1136 peak limiter was recommended in another thread. Works great together with nebula
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:03 AM   #57
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Update:

My ITB compressor lust has been satisfied:

The Glue
The Rocket
Major Tom
Waves CLA (La2a, La3a, 1176 Blue, 1176 Black)
Bombardier
Softube CL1B


And just to round out the rest of the story:

EQ:
ReaEq
Stillwell 1973
Stillwell Vibe
Nebula / Analog in the Box APE
Nebula / Analog in the Box DocFear
Nebula / Analog in the Box Fate
Nebula / Analog in the Box Mammoth


Reverb / Delay:
Lexicon LXP Native
Nebula / VNXT EMT 140
Soundtoys Echoboy


Console:
Steven Slate Digital VCC


Instruments:
Ocean Way Drums Gold
Scarbee Mark I Rhodes
VB3 Hammond
ZD6 Clav
Ivory II
EWI USB with The Trumpet and The Sax Brothers (Bari, Tenor, Alto)


Control Surface(s):
MCU Pro & MCU Pro Extender -- new ones with the ALPS Faders
Mackie C4 -- Heavily customized the CSurf DLL for nice FX integration


I/O:
Lynx Aurora 16 VT


Mics and Pre's as needed -- I have a few nice ones and am lucky to have access to a bunch more locally


Room:
Finally got the impetus / cash to do this:

24 2'x4'x6" OC703 traps spaced 6" from walls
4 2'x4'x6" OC703 "cloud" over mix position
1 2'x4'x12" OC703 corner "chunk" trap
6 2'x4'x12" traps spaced 12" from rear wall

Astounding difference !!


I now have one remaining task -- upgrade my 8 year old Blue Sky Pro Desk system.

I've ruled out the Adam S3X-H due to low end noise issues as reported on GS.

The Focal Beryllium tweeter and I do not see ear to ear.

Audtioned the Klein & Hummell 0300's -- extremely smooth and neutral, but craved a sub, something I'm trying to avoid.

So the only 2 left on my short list are the smaller Barefoot MM35's and the Harvey Gerst / Trident HG3's, neither of which are readily available yet for auditioning -- hopefully soon.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:31 PM   #58
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Nice list Geoff.

6" and 12" 703 is very impressive! How did you achieve those thicknesses? Did you e.g. stack 2" pieces?
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:47 PM   #59
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URS comps and EQ's sound great (but do need ilok). To my ears some of the best I've heard. Prices reasonable, love the sound.

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Old 12-31-2010, 03:57 PM   #60
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Nebula is definitely all it's cracked up to be, and I'm just using the free version...

It has the absolute most horrible interface ever though, which is the biggest thing holding it back in my opinion.


Geoff, since you have the full version of Mammoth, any info on the "XP Enh1" program? I'm curious because I stick that on the master and am instantly gratified, every time.


As for ITB compressors:
  • UAD 1176 (still the king on my system. I have the Fairchild, but don't really like it)
  • UAD LA-2A
  • Endorphin (free!)
  • The Glue
  • mpressor
  • The Rocket (Sex, Drums and Rock n Roll!)
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:54 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHughes
6" and 12" 703 is very impressive! How did you achieve those thicknesses? Did you e.g. stack 2" pieces?
Exactly, turns out there is no price advantage to using the (harder to get) thicker stock, it's all priced by cubic feet, so they're all just 2" -- 3 pieces for the 6" traps and 6 pieces for the 12" traps.

Used 1/2" Baltic Birch for the "hoops" to enclose them, and Guilford FR 701 fabric front and back for a nice finished look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
Geoff, since you have the full version of Mammoth, any info on the "XP Enh1" program?
I'm not familiar with the "XP Enh1" program -- sounds like it might be for the expansion pack, which I haven't seen the need to get so far, I just have the stock 44.1 version and it does just fine
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:24 PM   #62
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Ops...old thread, but here I go:


My main compressor is the NY DDMF. Love it, it´s great on basically everything.Impressive/transparent for low frequencies

I like Major Tom, excellent comp (altough I didn´t bought it (yet) and it´s not more on my HD). I tried the Rocket and it´s not for me, I think Major Tom is a lot better (as a track comp).De la mancha fifty five is another very good comp I use often.


Cheers
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