Old 08-12-2010, 10:28 AM   #1
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Default Export options for regions

A nice and very time saving feature for those who do sound design or sound libraries editing (like me) it would be a way to automatically choose to render the regions of a session.

This could include options like now to export stems, and the naming of the audio files could use a combination of the track and the region name, with an editable format just like the excellent SWS Markerlist formating.

For the extra mile, it could also offer option to export different qualities on different paths, or as it could happen, just to support the render queue, so that we could choose 2-3 types of rendering we want to do and then start the queue.

I'm already familiar with the autorender autohotkey script but it doesn't work every time, and it's outside of the reaper environment so everything can happen during the render and mess thing up. It's a great utility script though, but I would prefer something tightly integrated within the reaper environment.

Also this render feature and the render window in general should have presets in order to maintain a nice and clean pipeline.

Remember, in sound design we usually use 300-1000 and more markers and regions per project, creating variations of effects by using different grouping and routing within the same session with similar files and then we need to export all of these with distinctive names in different directories.

This one could be a blast for sound design for games. And the exporting presets would be great for different formats on the end, like if you use one format for Xbox and one for Playstation and one for Web, for the same game title. This also would go a step further the integration of Reaper with Fmod or Wwise projects.

Feature Request Page:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2927

Cheers!

:-)
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:26 PM   #2
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Autorender has worked flawlessly for me so far. Only gripe is that I cannot use the computer for anything else (no background processing for Autorender). But I do agree that Cockos should support native autorender function. Or perhaps purchase the codes from Shane or hire him, and integrate autorender codes into Reaper directly.
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrs View Post
Autorender has worked flawlessly for me so far. Only gripe is that I cannot use the computer for anything else (no background processing for Autorender). But I do agree that Cockos should support native autorender function. Or perhaps purchase the codes from Shane or hire him, and integrate autorender codes into Reaper directly.
Autorender is great, I just stumbled into some issues when I tried to export 500 regions in stems, don't know what the problem was but from a moment and after the wave files was blank with the duration of the region exported, strange but didn't have the time to troubleshoot.

Also I find it essential to able to export and use the computer for other tasks in the same time, especially in an environment such as computer game development where we do many stuff in the same time collaborating with 10-20 people while working on one aspect of the project. It's not good to stop and wait for a render and not be sure what is going to be in the end when so many people are waiting for you.

Up until now Reaper and all great community tools like Autorender are great and I thank their creators every day on my work :-)

Now it's time to move on the region/stems rendering to the next level with new features and total integration within the application.

Cheers!
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:03 PM   #4
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that is a lot of regions to deal with....

I'm not certain how well this might work in your case but I could imagine making a macro to 'select next region' and then to Shift+S split the media item at that time selection, select the resulting item and glue it [to itself] and in that way have all separate items to render.... but... would that be of any help?
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:33 PM   #5
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I agree , I'm having a great time working on up to 1200 loops and exporting...

But they are all fixed lengths and no regions to deal with.

I select a new media file path for each batch , select all items and render as new take or Apply track fx . Relying on the original name + the render 001 suffix.Then I use an renamer app.

Or the incredibly tedious way of Ctrl +alt drag to a folder each end every loop, depends on the material.

I'm sure there is a way to split according to regions?
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Or the incredibly tedious way of Ctrl +alt drag to a folder each end every loop, depends on the material.
what we NEED [and it was requested one time] is to be able to select a bunch of items and drag and drop them to a folder... if we had that and a renamer app [I like flash renamer] it would be a fast process...

I have a macro that will chop things up at regions and glue each item to itself so that it's short and unique... but the means to get them all out rapidly to a folder is not clear to me as yet...
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
I have a macro that will chop things up at regions and glue each item to itself so that it's short and unique...
Can you elaborate ? Glue each item to itself is confusing me...
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
what we NEED [and it was requested one time] is to be able to select a bunch of items and drag and drop them to a folder... if we had that and a renamer app [I like flash renamer] it would be a fast process...

I have a macro that will chop things up at regions and glue each item to itself so that it's short and unique... but the means to get them all out rapidly to a folder is not clear to me as yet...
I'm a big one for this who knows.. it might get in there soon!
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:37 PM   #9
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Can you elaborate ? Glue each item to itself is confusing me.
sure... let's say you have a wav file media item that is 10 minutes long... and then you split it up into 10, 1 minute pieces... OK?

Now if you copy any one of those pieces to a new track and drag it out left or right, you will see that the data on either end of where is was split is actuall still there...

But if you take each of those 10 split items and use the Glue just on each one itself, then all that original data will be gone, and the item becomes unique to itself and is just what you see.

So I am assuming that anyone doing sound design things would want to have each piece they have designated as a region to be split out as a unique item... I know I would.

Does that clear it up?

btw I was about to post a custom action for all this but just noticed it was not working properly in all cases... so maybe later

PS... here is the problem:

I can ONLY make this work decently if there are regions with no non-region gaps between them... I don't believe we have enough actions to deal with that situation automatically...

IF we have continuous, consecutive regions, then it's OK to split each to it's own item and glue that item to itself, ready for export via drag and drop or whatever....

So IF we had a way to select multiple items and drag and drop them all at once, it would be much better.

I'll try with markers next...


PSS OK with markers it really works better...

we can have two actions: one goes and makes splits at each and every marker...

than another that just moves to the next item and glues it to itself...

I've made those custom action way back... they are simple two action combinations... but they will get the job done fast...

IF you also had regions for what you wanted to keep, then you could easily select everything NOT in a region and delete it

STILL how to efficiently save all these items to a folder remains a major problem ...when you are talking about hundreds of items... it's a BIG problem
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:57 AM   #10
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When working with 1000 regions that contain different stems for power levels, let's say weapon sounds, and you want every stem to have different processing and also you need to keep some loops crossfaded with themselves to keep seamless looping, then you need multiple stems export by region and to take the name of the region with the extension of the stem. In example:

Magic_Water_Freeze-Power_Level_01

"Magic_Water_Freeze" is the name of the region and "Power_Level_01" is the name of the group track.

Also in games sound design, it would be great to work with presets on the exporter, like having two different presets, one that saves in a folder with settings on the file format for pc platforms and another on another folder with the same filenaming but other format for iphone development. Or the same functionality for different purposes like testing builds and final releases of the game.

Also a nice touch would be to be able to select which regions you like to export and which not in the export options.

Also have in mind that a typical session of mine (and I assume I work as any game sound designer) has around 30-50 animation videos loaded (Thanks to Reaper people for the great video playback they made!!!), around 500 to 1500 regions and 5-10 stems all full with insert effects and media item effects, loops crossfaded on the end and start of each region full automation with reverb tailing and many more stuff we use. That way any sound design I make it's non destructive and makes my work so much fun!!!

;-)

Regions Exporter for the Win!
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:09 AM   #11
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Thanks Hopi , got it.

Joystick .

It's beyond me how you can do seamless looping and export in Reaper , that would be impossible for me as an export adds a sample.,...most of the time, or maybe it's some of the time.? You might never notice though??

Also , regions don't transfer to SF properly.. for me.

Anything to do with getting a large quantity of items out of Reaper, sample accurate or with correct regions has proven a small nightmare for me.

I might be the only one with that one sample problem. Or it might be everyone and I'm the one annoyed by it.

However , I would compare originals and renders if I were you.

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Old 08-30-2010, 10:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnar View Post
Thanks Hopi , got it.

Joystick .

It's beyond me how you can do seamless looping and export in Reaper , that would be impossible for me as an export adds a sample.,...most of the time, or maybe it's some of the time.? You might never notice though??

Also , regions don't transfer to SF properly.. for me.

Anything to do with getting a large quantity of items out of Reaper, sample accurate or with correct regions has proven a small nightmare for me.

I might be the only one with that one sample problem. Or it might be everyone and I'm the one annoyed by it.

However , I would compare originals and renders if I were you.
When you work in a medium sampling rate of 48KHz (for example) one more sample is like 48000th of a second, so how this is noticeable? Human ears have a far larger ballistic behavior, you cannot recognize one more sample on usual sampling frequencies.

Maybe I didn't understood what you said, do you mean that this extra sample produces a noticeable click when looping? Do you export on a lossy format? Because a mp3 would produce more samples in your loops because it outputs audio in chunks of a specific size (don't remember now) and if the samples are not matching it will put silence to fill that last gap on the output file.

A similar problem is when I export one fine played loop on one application and find out later that another application "clicks" when it repeats the loop, but this is seems to disappear if you have the same sample on the start or tail of the loop. That is why when I make loops for sound design, which is usually ambiances of forests or rain, etc. I use to take the loop I'm working on and copy it so that it's cross fading with the start and the end of the same loop, so I construct a three loops part and then move the region locators (start & end) on the middle of each crossfade, usually that works like a charm ;-)

On music loops it's a different approach, you can always cut on zero crossings or make small fade ins-outs according to your material.

Hope I helped :-)
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:02 AM   #13
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Probably not something you would hear in an seamless loop , it's when they are triggered in succession that the problem appears .They drift out of sync because of the one sample.

It might be fixed now ?
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnar View Post
Probably not something you would hear in an seamless loop , it's when they are triggered in succession that the problem appears .They drift out of sync because of the one sample.

It might be fixed now ?
But the delay for each repetition on 48KHz is 0,020833333333333333333333333333333ms, that means that it will move 2 millisecond after 20 repetitions, is that so much of a problem? especially when you trigger them, that should playback each time from the start of the bar introducing no delay.

Sorry, I'm sure I didn't understood your problem or there is something fishy going on your setup :-) Did you confirmed other people having the same issue? Let me check now on my pc.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #15
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Oh, I see now it's fixed, hehehe, now I got it!
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:39 AM   #16
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hehe.....Well , they fixed it -almost ! Now it's one sample shorter, still the same effect.

My problem is that when you have a loop that is rendered on the grid at say 130 bpm , you import that loop drag it out for 4 minutes and it will drift off sync very noticably, ruining groove and causing immense headscratching and artistic selfdoubt.

This happens when I render as new take from within a longer sample.
Rendering a a 2 bar piece out of a 2 minute recording for example.

Im trying to do a Licecap , but guess what ..Sometimes its one sample too long and sometimes too short ,and sometimes right ...this makes the problem even worse. It's a sneaky bug , thought id mention it since your doing a lot of that kinda stuff.

Sorry if your post is derailed by my sample troubles.
Check out link for Licecap.


http://img203.**************/img203/6...mplethingy.gif

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Old 08-30-2010, 11:53 AM   #17
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I see, that seems to be a problem, I didn't run into those problems but I always use the render to disk to export.

I tried the same as you do and no problems appeared, good luck with that issue at least you know that you are in the hands of Cockos, they always short things out :-)
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:15 AM   #18
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Joystick's suggestion "Export options for regions" is very important for the people who are working for sound libraries and sound design. I think it will make export process a lot of faster and more professional. So, yes if Cockos Team wants to support those people (sound designers) and not only music composers i think this is a feature that it should be implement.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:59 AM   #19
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Hmm. I will try to compile a brief list of things that need to be possible :

  1. Rendering of regions and/or tracks(stems) from the render dialog

  2. Directory and filename configuration of choice, constructed from region name, track name and other variables.


I've seen this exact functionality and then some in Nuendo 5 I'm sorry to say. It's render dialog gives you the choice of rendering cycle markers(=regions in Reaper) from a specific marker track(there can be 32 of them so far), of specific tracks (there's a list in the render dialog) with a specific naming scheme that I have yet to explore.

I too use Autorender a lot when editing and processing my field recordings and effects. Specifically when I need effects for use in Protools, I toss in the video, set up the timecode and then render every region. Back in Protools I simply have to spot the resulting files because Reaper always includes a timestamp in the BWF chunk. Nice. All of this would be easier if Autorender was an internal facility.

I'd ever go so far to ask for multiple region/marker lanes and pick one at render time.

The multiple quality to different paths could be done if a 'render selected regions of marker/region lane X in format Y to location Z' was a render queue job, and that queue is displayed beneath or next to the render dialog. That way they can be edited as well.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Hmm. I will try to compile a brief list of things that need to be possible :

  1. Rendering of regions and/or tracks(stems) from the render dialog

  2. Directory and filename configuration of choice, constructed from region name, track name and other variables.


I've seen this exact functionality and then some in Nuendo 5 I'm sorry to say. It's render dialog gives you the choice of rendering cycle markers(=regions in Reaper) from a specific marker track(there can be 32 of them so far), of specific tracks (there's a list in the render dialog) with a specific naming scheme that I have yet to explore.

I too use Autorender a lot when editing and processing my field recordings and effects. Specifically when I need effects for use in Protools, I toss in the video, set up the timecode and then render every region. Back in Protools I simply have to spot the resulting files because Reaper always includes a timestamp in the BWF chunk. Nice. All of this would be easier if Autorender was an internal facility.

I'd ever go so far to ask for multiple region/marker lanes and pick one at render time.

The multiple quality to different paths could be done if a 'render selected regions of marker/region lane X in format Y to location Z' was a render queue job, and that queue is displayed beneath or next to the render dialog. That way they can be edited as well.
You can find also some nice suggestions here:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2927

Tell me your opinion on those.

Thanks, cheers!
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:34 AM   #21
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Default transfer from the tracker (IID # 854)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
Would like that too.


Example from myself:

-> mixed three tracks in same project
-> each track set as "region"

=> now this "region" render would come in handy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
it'd be great if this was merged with the queue rendering function (i.e. turn regions[list/checkbox] into render queue items).

the autorender tool works great but it's a bit of a hack (in a long render session using the autorender tool you can't really use the computer, reaper keeps grabbing focus).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrelwood
We recorded our live gig last saturday. I now have 42 regions in a Reaper project waiting for either Render Regions feature to be implemented, or a huge personal energy boost to render them individually.

Render Regions feature could also have a simple fade in/out creator, with definable fade in and fade out lengths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
-> split the items at the region
-> select all items and set fade lenght
-> Apply FX

=> DONE
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
apply fx/glue operations don't seem to apply fades to the underlying files anymore which means this doesn't work properly(or is this configurable somewhere? i looked and can't find it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
"Apply FX" does apply fades! "Glue" doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrelwood
Not done. The gig is recorded in multitrack. Apply FX does not render mixdown to an empty item in a folder track. If it would, issue would be solved.

I also noticed that confirmation for overwriting is asked twice. All in all it took me about 15 minutes to build the render queue, here's how the first 30 seconds were spent:

http://teuvvo.wippiespace.com/reaper...derRegions.swf

I truly hope this request is taken into consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAgamesound
+1. I posted a virtual duplicate of this yesterday - whoops! This would be awesome.

This could be even stronger with render flags in the region name. Such as:

-m = mono
-s = stereo
-6tr = 6 discreet interleaved tracks (5.1)
-fadeout.* = automatically fade out at the end of the region over * milliseconds
-fadein.* = automatically fade in at the beginning of the region over * milliseconds.
-16b = 16 bit
-48k = 48 khz
-nofx = disable all track fx
-s* = solo track *
-m* = mute track *
-wav = render as wav
-fold.* = render to subfolder*
-ovr = overwrite without asking.

So let's say I have a region named "SpaceWhaleOfDoom -m -ovr -fold.creatures". This time selection will be rendered as a mono file with otherwise default properties to the directory "creatures" located in the default render directory. It will overwrite any same-named file in that directory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joystick
Great idea!

But we could also use something like "export presets" and then just quickly select the required preset for each export job.

That would be easier because a sound designer could make exports for weapons, user interface, voice, etc. which usually use different settings on the export and are located on different directories.

So with export presets it would be faster to select the preset and the sounds will go directly on the right folder for the right project having the right format.

That would be super!

Also, Space Whale Of Doom!!! You rule man!

Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joystick
I'm very happy to see that other people could use this feature.

My opinion is:

A nice and very time saving feature for those who do sound design or sound libraries editing (like me) it would be a way to automatically choose to render the regions of a session.

This could include options like now to export stems, and the naming of the audio files could use a combination of the track and the region name, with an editable format just like the excellent SWS Markerlist formating.

For the extra mile, it could also offer option to export different qualities on different paths, or as it could happen, just to support the render queue, so that we could choose 2-3 types of rendering we want to do and then start the queue.

Remember, in sound design we usually use 300-1000 and more markers and regions per project, creating variations of effects by using different grouping and routing within the same session with similar files and then we need to export all of these with distinctive names in different directories.

When working with 1000 regions that contain different stems for power levels, let's say weapon sounds, and you want every stem to have different processing and also you need to keep some loops crossfaded with themselves to keep seamless looping, then you need multiple stems export by region and to take the name of the region with the extension of the stem. In example:

Magic_Water_Freeze-Power_Level_01

"Magic_Water_Freeze" is the name of the region and "Power_Level_01" is the name of the group track.

Also in games sound design, it would be great to work with presets on the exporter, like having two different presets, one that saves in a folder with settings on the file format for pc platforms and another on another folder with the same filenaming but other format for iphone development. Or the same functionality for different purposes like testing builds and final releases of the game.

Also a nice touch would be to be able to select which regions you like to export and which not in the export options.

Have in mind that a typical session of mine (and I assume I work as any game sound designer) has around 30-50 animation videos loaded (Thanks to Reaper people for the great video playback they made!!!), around 500 to 1500 regions and 5-10 stems all full with insert effects and media item effects, loops crossfaded on the end and start of each region full automation with reverb tailing and many more stuff we use. That way any sound design I make it's non destructive and makes my work so much fun!!!

This one could be a blast for sound design for games. And the exporting presets would be great for different formats on the end, like if you use one format for Xbox and one for Playstation and one for Web, for the same game title. This also would go a step further the integration of Reaper with Fmod or Wwise projects.

I'm already working on making some tutorial for sound design for games only with reaper and the included effects, the advanced export options would be a blast for that!

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Old 12-03-2010, 04:04 PM   #22
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Hey, nice job Gofer, getting all nice proposals together, maybe now that v4 is on the way somebody will listen and we will get our Holy-Grail for exporting.

as always I think Cockos people will amaze us by providing tools with the best combination from our comments and suggestions.

Cheers!
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:18 AM   #23
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Default New suggestion

Maybe something like this could work better for all people that have huge amounts of regions to export. Feedback would be nice, this could be a huge advanced region exporter and become one of Reaper best features. Especially now that the content providing industry grows by the hour :-)

I attach my designs in 3 low resolution images for previewing, one zipped file in order for someone to have a clear view of the text and I also uploaded an online link here:

http://www.panozk.com/wp-content/upl...ort-Design.png

You can vote for it here:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3154

Take care,

Oh, and a very happy and creative new year to all people here and the beloved Reaper devs !!!!!!!
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
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Check this design out:

http://www.panozk.com/wp-content/upl...ort-Design.png

You can vote for it here:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3154

Cheers!
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:42 AM   #25
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It would be also nice to have some features for the exporting to remove silence from the start or end of the regions, probably zero volume samples.

This way we can choose to do that and gain even more MBs from our productions without the need to every time adjust the end of the region exactly yo the end of our edits.

This together with the markers2regions utility could be a big plus to all those who work with many regions.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:14 AM   #26
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Wow , impressive , Joystick.

This is so needed for any sound-design work, it's extremely laborious at the moment.

btw> I just had an accident where I was renaming a lot of files, lost the numbering.

150 Kik drum loops ...Numbering integrity needed to sync the top loop and snare ..it's a mess.... haha.

The extra steps involved in getting regions and loops out of Reaper combined with the naming just turns everything into a mess ...but I'm not very organised, have to admit.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:10 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnar View Post
Wow , impressive , Joystick.

This is so needed for any sound-design work, it's extremely laborious at the moment.

btw> I just had an accident where I was renaming a lot of files, lost the numbering.

150 Kik drum loops ...Numbering integrity needed to sync the top loop and snare ..it's a mess.... haha.

The extra steps involved in getting regions and loops out of Reaper combined with the naming just turns everything into a mess ...but I'm not very organised, have to admit.
Wow so many loops, are you creating music content? That is very interesting, maybe you have some ideas for loop creation that could be integrated in the system I describe, any thoughts?

Without a solution like this I believe it will always will be a lot of work to export regions if you are a content provider or a sound designer, especially for multiple format targets and many multiple-layered sounds with effects.

You can vote here if you like, and because I see that probably music-related topics will get many votes because sound designers are not the biggest players here, if you can and know other people using Reaper and doing that kind of work, please be so kind and forward the Feature Request link to them also to vote it, because a similar older request I did was dead after 2-3 votes.

Here you can vote:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3154

Cheers!
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #28
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genius! +1
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
genius! +1
Thanks, check out an updated info on the voting page and check the links from SWS and Shane, maybe we can have this functionality with the SWS utilitites in future versions :-)

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?...3154#note14443
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