Old 11-15-2010, 07:49 PM   #1
Lawrence
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Default Clip Based VI Automation

A bump for clip based automation for V4 or the V4 cycle and a animation for effect. When (if) you're working on pattern based midi productions, very handy.

I *have* to use Studio One here for the video example (so don't shoot me ) because I don't know how to do it in FLStudio even though I know it does the same. Having the instrument automation directly in the controller lane and tied to the clip eases a lot of frustration with pattern based production.

Big +1 for the v4 cycle. My last FR & vid for 2010, promise, mouth shut, pie hole closed, peace.


Last edited by Lawrence; 01-08-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:55 PM   #2
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+1 to clip based automation

(The Studio One way seems very straightforward and quick)

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My last FR & vid for 2010, promise, mouth shut, pie hole closed, peace.
I for one find that vids like this give valuable info, as I never checked out Studio One.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #3
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Nice! +1
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:27 AM   #4
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+1 , dawno pora blia
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:18 AM   #5
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From http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=81

Meanwhile here's a pic of the features in XT2, for some ideas:

-- the CC80 lane is using CC events sent to the VSTi
-- the CC81 lane is an envelope, converted to CC events and sent to the VSTi
-- the Glide Time lane is an envelope, for a VSTi parameter
-- the lowest two lanes show the CC events actually sent to the VSTi.

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Old 11-16-2010, 04:18 AM   #6
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Indeed!!

There is a voting fr for this in elevated feature requests, on a train now though so can't find it easily.

For people working to picture this would make life very easy!
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:20 AM   #7
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http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=121

There it is. 110 votes.


This should not only be in MIDI editor, but main arrange even moreso.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:46 AM   #8
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I've just nominated this thread as the [New] Discussion Thread. Hope that that is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver, in the Issue Tracker

Automation Items
A speculative idea for an evolution of the automation system

the idea is for automation envelopes to be housed in items: "automation items". they could be copied and pasted / have multiple takes / be muted, stretched, grouped etc. just as audio and midi items are.

automation items could be joined to audio or midi clips, or not, on a per-item basis.

there are plenty of tricky bits to the idea: what happens at the edges of items - are points added when they are split etc ...

but the basic idea of leveraging all the cool per-item actions that we have to be able to act on sections of automation seems like it could be powerful and flexible...

I think that having dedicated automation items is better than having automation live in existing audio or midi clips as things could get screwy in FIPM mode or when playing all takes etc etc. And automation items as described above should be more or less as convenient.
Currently its the 26th most voted for FR.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
This should not only be in MIDI editor, but main arrange even moreso.
I'd have to see it in practice with audio clips. Above, if you drag it to arrange it makes a normal track envelope, if you drag it to the key editor it makes an envelope just for the clip. All of the envelopes (IIRC) are the same in both (except velocity with of course isn't an envelope) and can be copy pasted between track and midi clip.

I've never had occasion to use post-fader audio clip envelopes so I'm not familiar with how they work in practice, how they interact with any global track automation. Any audio envelopes I've ever used were always pre-fader / pre-FX.

So an example of that would be cool. Never had it.

P.S. As relates to "automation clips" (the other FR), although I never have actually used it that way, you could use an empty midi clip for that and keep the instrument automation separate from the midi data. Put it on another track/clip and just point the track to the same instrument. I guess that would allow moving the "instrument automation clip" separately from the midi clip and duplicating / copying it or whatever.

Last edited by Lawrence; 11-16-2010 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:14 AM   #10
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first Reaper would need some proper Pattern system in general, no?

i mean pattern automation would be cool, but we have not much of patterns in Reaper. we have .MID for MIDI "patterns" and .RPP/PiP for audio (...), but those are extra files, not embedded in the session.

i guess you dont want .xyz files on HDD for every automation "pattern", do you?
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbybit View Post
first Reaper would need some proper Pattern system in general, no?
While that would be nice (FLStudio's "pattern" arrangement system is fabulous), it's another thing. Even if you arrange your midi patterns manually via copy/paste/duplicate across multiple tracks, having the automation "within" the clips as opposed across the entire track is useful.

So how the host allows you to create "pattern based productions" is another thing.

=====================================

One practical example of the usefulness of clip based automation with instruments:

You have a VI where you've made some automation changes over 4 bars, a 4-bar bass pattern, maybe sweeping the filters up/down for a sound. With a typical track-based automation envelope it's pretty standard for a copy/paste to duplicate the envelope with the paste, so no biggie. What's not so common is to tweak the automation in bars 4-8 and have those changes follow through the entire song, wherever the pattern (clip) is, the "ghost" copies. In that case you'd have to manually copy the new automation through the song or delete the other clips and paste them again from the modified clip.

But below those are shared copies. Any changes I make to the instrument envelope flows through all shared copies, even if they're on another track. So even if the "pattern arrangement" (building song sections with clip blocks) is being done manually, it's a bit more flexible.


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Old 11-16-2010, 11:48 AM   #12
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thats what Reaper needs first, imHo.

shared copies, ghosts, whatever you call it - embedded in the .RPP
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:45 PM   #13
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same here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2983

[IMG]http://img340.**************/img340/9158/reautomationclips.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:58 PM   #14
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Yes yes and yes.

This is my bump. It shall be given up for you.
It is right to give him thanks and praise.
Do this in memory of me.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=121

There it is. 110 votes.


This should not only be in MIDI editor, but main arrange even moreso.
That's it! Automation items. That's the way it works in Propellerheads Reason and Record, and I think it greately simplifies the process of manipulating automation.

+1 from uncle Scoox
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopstickkk View Post
Yes yes and yes.

This is my bump. It shall be given up for you.
It is right to give him thanks and praise.
Do this in memory of me.
Lol @ your avatar. I feel like that sometimes.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Lol @ your avatar. I feel like that sometimes.
"Danielson!... Bass on... Bass off..."
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:42 PM   #18
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Great idea!
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Old 01-31-2011, 05:47 PM   #19
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I would love this. Voted.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:03 AM   #20
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This is a MUST HAVE!

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...84398&posted=1
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:35 AM   #21
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Default Even nuendo is in on the game now! ;)

http://www.steinberg.net/uploads/pic...ting_II_02.png
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:42 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
That's not automation items. That picture shows a time selection over the automation envelope, with the envelope shaping handles (the black squares).
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:01 AM   #23
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Yeah, this would be a huge help to my workflow as I also got used to this in Reason.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #24
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We've been waiting too long, we need automation items... soon.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmichalski View Post
Yeah, this would be a huge help to my workflow as I also got used to this in Reason.
Yup me as well, and it was wonderful.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=121

There it is. 110 votes.


This should not only be in MIDI editor, but main arrange even moreso.
Indeed, more so in the main arrange view.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:26 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePriest View Post
We've been waiting too long, we need automation items... soon.
Agree!
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:41 AM   #28
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This is really one of my main workflow gripes with Reaper, I find the automation as is, terribly counter-intuitive, and a bit daunting.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:31 AM   #29
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+1000
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:49 AM   #30
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Yes please.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:20 AM   #31
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it would save much time
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:29 PM   #32
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I need it too
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olkash i psih View Post
+1 , dawno pora blia
+1.
I believe, Olkash i psih is right. the time for this great feature has really come.

more over there is one great feature, which deserves careful attention and it is "per note automation".
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:53 AM   #34
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Lawrence and DarkStar, maybe you should more clearly point out that the automation method described in this thread (the "Studio One method") is something that Semiquaver did not want in his Automation Items FR.

Semiquaver's FR seems to be more like the "Reason/Podium method" of automation.

Just adding +1s to this thread is not really helpful.
It would be a lot more useful to discuss about the differences in automation systems of EnergyXT, Studio One, Reason and Podium. And try to find the best automation method for Reaper.

I'm supporting Semiquaver's FR. I think dedicated automation items would be more flexible to use than the "Studio One method". For example copy-pasting only automation to other parts of the project would be easy directly in the arrange view.

Maybe some Reason users could describe the differences between Reason's and Podium's automation. The main idea of having dedicated automation items seems to be the same in those DAWs. But is there some difference? Which one do you prefer?

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Old 01-15-2012, 04:09 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copacetic View Post
This is really one of my main workflow gripes with Reaper, I find the automation as is, terribly counter-intuitive, and a bit daunting.

Do the makers of Reaper actually read this forum??? A simple statement like 'we are looking into sorting out counter-intuitive automation' could make a lot of people happy! lol
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faun2500 View Post
Do the makers of Reaper actually read this forum??? A simple statement like 'we are looking into sorting out counter-intuitive automation' could make a lot of people happy! lol
They respond to a hell of a lot, and are WAY more involved than any other DAW I've ever come across.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #37
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This way!
[img]http://img341.**************/img341/8435/automationclipsplaylist.png[/img]

http://www.image-line.com/support/FL...mationclip.htm
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:13 AM   #38
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Default Automation Items +1!

Really like this idea. I know that there are many Ableton Live users, who use a similar approach ('dummy' automation only clips) to quickly apply different automation data onto the same audio clips. Another usefule tool in the kitbag
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:31 PM   #39
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Automation clips would be so helpful. Copying and pasting automation on the track often leaves a stray point or something somewhere that doesn't work right which in a busy project can really screw your head in and slow things down.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #40
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Ok, Reaper developers, could you please give us a hope?
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