Democracy is restored / Voting

Till · 03-13-2007, 11:29 AM

There is great News for everybody! I have invested an afternoon of mine to bring democracy to this Forum!

I have written a little script that once a day (@night in germany) searches the entire forum and every little post for "++1", "+1", "-1" and "--1". (The latest, highest expression counts, posting "++1" twice doesn't work)

EDIT:
the script now runs once per hour, smartly updating the list.

EDIT:
votes by the author of the thread are now being ignored.

By posting these expressions anywhere in a thread you vote for that thread. (for all the numb-nuts out there: ++1 means +2 and --1 means -2)

All the votes are collected, summed and put into this list:

Reaper FR Vote Counter (url changed 2008-06-25)

As this is already a very popular form of expressing enthusiasm for a topic i thought: why not use it? I now hope that everybody will pick up on this habit and vote their asses off and thus make the whole discussion "my idea is more important than yours" redundant. And i especially hope, that the best programmers in the whole world will use this powerful tool, to make their fellow artists happier.

EDIT:
whenever you see some gibberish starting with an exclamation mark: these are orders for the bot to specially mark or group FRs. JasonTheron has offered his help and is currently grouping and cleaning the enormous list of FRs. Thanks, man!

EDIT:

You can help! The author of a thread (1st post) can now decide what happens to the thread via the regular commands:

!done marks the FR done
!ngh marks the FR never gonna happen
!ignore ignores the thread - it will not appear in any list
!group "GROUPNAME" will group the Thread with an existing group (careful, case-sensitive).

edit these commands into the first post of the thread and help cleaning without making noise. Note that updates of this kind can take up to a week to appear in the list.

Please give us some feedback on this!

EDIT:
Important for people that are new to this forum: check out the highest ranked FRs and the "Never gonna happen"-list to prevent useless double-posting!

EDIT:
if you find a FR that's definately done or bogus, PM me or JasonTheron and we'll take care of it, there are currently almost 3000 FRs and we appreciate any help we can get to sort this mess.

EDIT:
we try (try!) to be as silent as possible doing this, please forgive us, if we sometimes create a mess on the front page of this forum...

beatbybit · 03-13-2007, 12:29 PM

big up Till,

thank you for your time and effort. I find it very helpful.

Just a tought: not every user says "+1", who likes the idea.
I think there should be a counter per feature, a link(s) to read more about that FR, and some comment from the Justin and C.
Plus maybe a "only one vote per user" limit function.

--

i finally found the most important FR to me, but the list says: 2 (votes). The FR is "waveform overview". Here-and-there was more than 10 votes about this, i think. I mean in other FRs, non-"+1" votes, etc.

Till · 03-13-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

Just a tought: not every user says "+1", who likes the idea.

Well i hope that when someone makes this thread sticky that everybody WILL say it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

I think there should be a counter per feature, a link(s) to read more about that FR, and some comment from the Justin and C.

A counter per feature would require a second system which would be almost impossible to be automatic and would thus require a lot of maintenance. This system is absolutely maintenance-free and the user-control is already done by the forum.

Comments by Justin and C can still be done in the old-fashioned forum-way.

And the list features links to the threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

Plus maybe a "only one vote per user" limit function.

Way ahead of you! As i already said: "The latest, highest expression counts, posting "++1" twice doesn't work".

This system is the simplest, easiest and as far as i know not abusable.

schwa · 03-13-2007, 12:46 PM

How come practically nobody uses the existing thread ratings?

beatbybit · 03-13-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

Well i hope that when someone makes this thread sticky that everybody WILL say it!

A counter per feature would require a second system which would be almost impossible to be automatic..

ok, i understand. I'm not into the programming/coding, i'm just a thankful user. I really love the fact that this voting thread exists.

And i will surely say "+1" everytime i like the FR/idea.

But i ask every user who want better peakfiles in Reaper to say "+1" here : http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2630

_now_

thank you

cAPSLOCK · 03-13-2007, 01:11 PM

I may be in the minority, and I certainly appreciate anyone who gets involved in an online community like this one to benefit the members.

But I think of the this whole plus/minus thing to be one of the most annoying wastes of bandwidth.

It is a sort of extension of the "me too" post, or a lemming like "dittos Rush" type of response.

Ah well... I spose I will have to join the party.

--1

cAPS

Till · 03-13-2007, 01:19 PM

Actually i agree with you! Still i see this as a way of getting a picture of what the community wants. And with the current amount of requests that come in every day it is very hard to be determined by just looking over the forum.

Jae.Thomas · 03-13-2007, 02:53 PM

for the record, i dont really use +1 that often.

Art Evans · 03-13-2007, 04:30 PM

Yeah, just having to wade through loads of one-liners in threads which might otherwise be of interest is going to waste a lot of time. If an idea is good, Justin will recognise the fact. If he's unable to reach the "meat" of discussions due to the "noise" of +1's I think the whole thing will become counterproductive. Sorry to have to add a -1 to this whole idea!

[whisper]Democracy can be taken too far, you know... [/whisper]

Bevosss · 03-13-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

for the record, i dont really use +1 that often.

+1!.......

schwa · 03-13-2007, 06:31 PM

Um. Isn't there already a "rate this thread" option that doesn't require adding an entry to the thread?

Till · 03-13-2007, 11:57 PM

Yeah, almost noone uses that.

Well now, i guess i have drawn some attention on this. Its on you to use it or not. Vote or don't. Just like democracy, right?

Btw.: still gotta make the cronjob work. Damn Confixx/Linux!

//edit: did that, mate helped me out...

jaydottcomm · 03-14-2007, 02:09 PM

what if you just go into the FR forum and sort the posts by replies????

mahasandi · 03-14-2007, 02:17 PM

voting isn't always great.

sometimes its obvious that consensus isn't "great"

hows that for paradoxical....

chip mcdonald · 03-15-2007, 12:34 AM

... I usually go for points:

10 pts.

Oh well, I know, everything should be optional ++1

Billoon · 03-15-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Evans

Yeah, just having to wade through loads of one-liners in threads which might otherwise be of interest is going to waste a lot of time. If an idea is good, Justin will recognise the fact. If he's unable to reach the "meat" of discussions due to the "noise" of +1's I think the whole thing will become counterproductive. Sorry to have to add a -1 to this whole idea!

[whisper]Democracy can be taken too far, you know... [/whisper]

Plus a thousand for Arts comments.

Sorry to be a downer, but i prefer our "Benevolent Dictatorship"...to any situation that creates more "noise". More forum posts does not make an idea better.

It really only takes one post with a well explained idea and reason to make the point...after that it should be totally left in the safe hands of the Cockos Confederate

.

Nothing wrong with adding support or even the ocassional reminder(ie. bump...just not everyday please.

), but id prefer not to encourage people to think that a feature may get in because people have posted about it a lot.

It should be understood and respected that it will get in if its right for REAPER and if its not right for REAPER...it should not matter how much noise is made about it.

So i personally wont be using (plus one) anymore, sorry, YMMV, each to their own etc, etc.

Till · 03-17-2007, 04:27 AM

Bugfix: used to recount votes on the second page of a thread. *stupid* Discovered it totally unintentional...

historic stork · 10-21-2007, 04:10 PM

i think it's incredible. Like any poll, it's not going to paint the whole picture. It does make a nice illustration, though.

The Reaper team already has a way of deciding which FR's to work on, but I imagine this aids in some of the difficult decisions they have to make.

JasonTheron · 11-28-2007, 02:12 PM

Till,
Any word from Justin on whether he pays any attention to the vote counter?
That would be one good reason to use or not use it.

Till · 12-04-2007, 09:59 AM

never got any comment from him. and as far as the use of the list goes: the top requests are things like per-item-fx, UI extensions, folder-in-folder - things that have been around for a long time, so it's hard to tell if they pay any attention to it.

JasonTheron · 01-22-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

never got any comment from him. and as far as the use of the list goes: the top requests are things like per-item-fx, UI extensions, folder-in-folder - things that have been around for a long time, so it's hard to tell if they pay any attention to it.

Hey Till,
Is there any way you could exclude solved/completed FRs from the tracker?
Ya know, clear it up a bit.

PitchSlap · 01-22-2008, 03:42 PM

I think this is a great idea. There are soooo many FR's here, I can imagine Justin must be going nuts.

Maybe on a semi-regular basis, frequently requested requests could be made into a forum poll by one of the mods and users could vote? Then maybe the developer(s) could comment on how hard it is to do etc.

The Cockos team has done an exceptional job so far, but I suspect as the user base explodes it may be harder to prioritize development based on the needs of the community without some type of independent democratic system.

+1 on the FR Vote counter

JasonTheron · 01-22-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitchSlap

+1 on the FR Vote counter

It actuall already exists ....
http://tillmannn.de/reaper.html

I was just asking Till if it could be spruced up a bit.

PitchSlap · 01-22-2008, 03:57 PM

^ Awesome, looks great. I didn't realize the thread was really old before replying.

Linking to the original threads is a good idea too.

I'm off to cast a few votes now...

inthepipeline · 01-23-2008, 01:22 AM

+1 . good idea

Till · 01-26-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonTheron

Hey Till,
Is there any way you could exclude solved/completed FRs from the tracker?
Ya know, clear it up a bit.

if the title of a FR contains "(DONE)" or (new

) "(SOLVED)" it's not taken into the list.

/EDIT

also if an authorized forum member posts "!done" or "!ngh" (which means "never gonna happen") the FR is kicked. i originally wanted to put those in seperate lists, but never got around to it. maybe now...

at the moment authorized forum members are just me and justin. neither of us do it, so if you're up for it, you can help and clean it out a bit. having a list of "never gonna happen"s might even reduce the amount of monthly "tools wanted" threads

Till · 01-26-2008, 11:53 AM

actually i was half there creating !done and !ngh lists, so it's done.

/EDIT: i don't know if it works properly, because the script takes a lot of time and at home i only search one forum page - a !ngh did not yet show up, but i remember posting it about two times

...

JasonTheron · 01-26-2008, 02:39 PM

Thanks Till.
That looks very nice!
Much better.

antiClick · 01-28-2008, 05:27 PM

make this a Sticky thread?

JasonTheron · 01-28-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antiClick

make this a Sticky thread?

Yes!
And maybe clarify the title.

Till · 01-29-2008, 10:20 AM

i can't do either of those things...

JasonTheron, my offer is still standing. if you want some administrative powers, you got em.

JasonTheron · 01-29-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

i can't do either of those things...

JasonTheron, my offer is still standing. if you want some administrative powers, you got em.

Yes, please.
Bwahahahaha!

Till · 01-29-2008, 10:42 AM

cool!

i did everything in my power, so as of 04:00 CET you should be regarded authorized by the counting-bot.

if you have any wishes or ideas, let me know...

spikemullings · 01-29-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonTheron

Yes, please.
Bwahahahaha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

cool!

i did everything in my power, so as of 04:00 CET you should be regarded authorized by the counting-bot.

Oh no! J, didn;t you know? It's like that scene in Goodfellas when the Joe Pesci character thinks he's going to get "made" but in fact they come into the room with a gun and . . . and . . . and . . .

Well maybe it's not quite that bad

JasonTheron · 01-29-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

cool!

i did everything in my power, so as of 04:00 CET you should be regarded authorized by the counting-bot.

if you have any wishes or ideas, let me know...

Sure, thanks Till.
Shall I PM you with ideas?
Or is this post a better means of communication?

Till · 01-29-2008, 11:49 AM

haha. actually shooting "J" would be kinda complicated, but there are other ways... have the police open your mail the next couple of weeks

um. PM your ideas, probably the only way to be sure they won't be buried under people getting worked up over the lack of "FX Busses"

Till · 01-30-2008, 07:25 AM

the first thing we cooked up is grouping of FRs, let's see how that works out

JasonTheron · 01-30-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Till

the first thing we cooked up is grouping of FRs, let's see how that works out

Cool!
We're sticky now.

Yup, started working on some grouping today (as you may have noticed by the billions of old FR posts resurfacing).

Please see the following thread if you feel like stangling me:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17513

mahasandi · 02-04-2008, 12:09 PM

well I appreciate this , It wasnt until
I saw the list of most voted fr's that I thought
it would be useful, but people really have
"voted" , hopefully it will actually be useful
to developing Reaper.
I do think that Justin and co have the
vision to incorporate fr's in a way/order that
is best for the overall development.

Till · 02-07-2008, 02:35 PM

very cool new feature: by clicking the "+" next to a FR, the content of the thread is displayed. the page will be filled with "+"s within the next week (it's done during updating and a thread without new posts is updated only every 5-7 days).

this might not work in some browsers that are a little messy with DOM - PM me if there's an important one.

before we argue about the use of this, consider the fun i had coding this today