Old 03-25-2007, 01:51 AM   #1
jamester
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Default I did it - the SamplOmatic Drum Sampler!

4:30 a.m. Sunday morning,finally finished this project! :-0

Rather difficult to describe in words without it sounding overly-complicated...but basically a track folder containing 16 SamplOmatics, designed as a 3x4 "pad" arrangement (three rows of four pads each). Think of an MPC with only three rows. The first four pads are doubled, for layering of kicks/snares/claps. The other two rows are single-ply, second row for HH/Cymb's and the last row for misc perc.

All of this is inside a "master" track folder, along with a Send track and three track outs for Kick/Snare/HH's. Of course, any number of track outs or sends can easily be added as needed, and I have already mapped all the outs ahead of time (24 stereo, total).

Very similar to a Device Rack I made in Live with Simplers...only better for me as you can actually use it in the "arrange" view.

If anyone's interested in checking it out I'd be glad to share it (though I don't really have a way of hosting it unfortunately).

Here's a screenshot:
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:58 AM   #2
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The samplers are as follows, with outputs:

1. Kick 1, 3/4
2. Kick 2, 3/4
3. Snare 1, 5/6
4. Snare 2, 5/6
5. Misc 1, 7/8
6. Misc 2, 7/8
7. Clap 1, 9/10
8. Clap 2, 9/10
9. HH CL, 11/12
10. HH OP, 11/12
11. Ride, 13/14
12. Crash, 15/16
13. Perc 1, 17/18
14. Perc 2, 19/20
15. Perc 3, 21/22
16. Perc 4, 23/24

Midi notes assignments are 36 - 47.

What do you guys think?

Last edited by jamester; 03-25-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:05 AM   #3
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samplamatic without preview (rather prehear) during browsing is not
good enough for a drum sampler
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by env View Post
samplamatic without preview (rather prehear) during browsing is not
good enough for a drum sampler

You can preview a sample before you add it in the Media Explorer, then just drag it onto the sampler...

...or you can preview after adding in the piano roll.

You can also preview midi files...just select the track with the VSTi you want to preview and play the midi file from the Media Explorer...you can set it to autoplay if you like.

Good work, Jamester...i followed your other thread and made a simple kick, snare, hats setup to use for jamming with a beat...saved it as a track template for quick recall, ta.

Last edited by Billoon; 03-25-2007 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:29 AM   #5
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Thanks Billoon, I'm actually really digging this. Might not be much to look at, but functionally it's really useful...and unlike Battery 3, your midi note assignments get saved even if there isn't a sample loaded!

And yes, preview through the Explorer!

The main limitation that I see so far is it's a pain to Solo; unless of course it already has a track out. Otherwise, you'd have to uncheck all the other samplers, one at a time. But this isn't a big deal really, for me at least.

Here's what I'd like to see:

- A way to clear a sample without resetting to Default
- Make it so the sixteen samplers are all tabbed together, like ReaEQ, with the ability to name the tabs (Kick, Snare, etc).

Then call it ReaDrum, and hope Propellerhead doesn't sue! ;-)
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:08 PM   #6
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hey Jamester. If you'd like me to host it for you, i'd be happy to.

Maybe if folks try it, they'll post opinions.


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Old 03-25-2007, 12:14 PM   #7
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That would be great Teej - email me at jamesATjamesguitarDOTcom

Thanks! :-)
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:17 PM   #8
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you have mail
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:10 PM   #9
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happy to help, j.


Here ya go, guys... a chance to see what jamester is talking about.


EDIT:
Updated version in Post #21
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:55 PM   #10
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Could someone else try the template as when I opened it there was nothing in it?

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Old 03-25-2007, 03:06 PM   #11
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i'm getting the same thing, jed. but the file does have data in it. is it possible we're just not loading it correctly?

I'm using Insert > Track from template > Open template


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Old 03-25-2007, 03:20 PM   #12
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I'm struggling to grasp this. What does it do exactly?

Or maybe what I mean is, "How do you use it?".
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Old 03-25-2007, 03:23 PM   #13
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template is only for empty folder track 'drum rack' and as in picture all samplers are in 'Master drum Channel 1/2'
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:01 PM   #14
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Hey everybody! Haven't tried it, but if the download works properly, you should get a Reaper Track Template file. Place it in the REAPER folder inside your Application Data folder in Documents and Settings. Then, in Reaper you should be able to call it up as a Track Template.

As Env said, the actual Drum Rack is in the FX section of the "Master Drum Channel". All samplers are empty, simply import your own one-shots. All track outs are already configured, to add more simply make a new track and route it to the proper out, from the Master Drum Channel. easy-peasy! ;-)

As for what it does, it's a 12 "pad" drum sample playback rack, with one row doubled for layering of kicks and such. think of it as in a 3x4 configuration, like an MPC or GURU. I use it with my PadKontrol, using the first three rows (from the bottom up). I have them mapped chromatically starting at midi note 36.

BTW, you will notice that the Open HH is the only one with the "Obey note off messages" ticked. This gives a pseudo-choke for the Closed HH, works nicely!
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:15 PM   #15
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Jamester, for now its only ONE, empty folder track. You must select ALL tracks and then save them as template, or save that 'Master drum Channel 1/2'

Edit:
content of Drum_Rack_empty.RTrackTemplate
<TRACK
NAME "Drum Rack"
PEAKCOL 16576
AUTOMODE 0
VOLPAN 1.000000 0.000000 -1.000000
MUTESOLO 0 0
IPHASE 0
ISBUS 1
BUSCOMP 2
SHOWINMIX 1
REC 0 0 2 0 0
TRACKHEIGHT 79
NCHAN 2
FX 1
MIDIOUT -1
MAINSEND 1
<FXCHAIN
WNDRECT 0 38 853 392
SHOW 0
LASTSEL 0
DOCKED 0
>
>
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:18 PM   #16
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Whew - I thought it was just Teej and I!

Cheers
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:29 PM   #17
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I re-sent a new one, named ReaDrum, to Teej. This one works, sorry I should have tested it first. Thought I had actually, but aparently not...

doh!
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:44 PM   #18
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you can attach files via 'Manage Attachments' in Additional Options when you post a message. 'rtracktemplate' is a valid file extension for posting.
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by env View Post
you can attach files via 'Manage Attachments' in Additional Options when you post a message. 'rtracktemplate' is a valid file extension for posting.
duh!

yup, updated file is in post #21.


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Old 03-25-2007, 05:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by env View Post
you can attach files via 'Manage Attachments' in Additional Options when you post a message. 'rtracktemplate' is a valid file extension for posting.
Huh, well that's good to know!
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:43 PM   #21
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Here's a visualization, and a newer version that's been properly renamed as ReaDrum! (sorry so big, doing this quickly)

BTW,the "Misc" can be used for a sidestick or flam...

Attached Files
File Type: rtracktemplate ReaDrum.RTrackTemplate (8.9 KB, 452 views)

Last edited by jamester; 03-25-2007 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:04 PM   #22
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Default Many thanks and a question

Hey Jameser,
Firstly thanks for sharing such a cool project. I did not understand what ReaSamp... did or how it could be used before reading this thread and your previous thread. In fact I did not understand what a sampler did and how it could be controlled by midi before this thread. I think guitarists have a harder time coming into the whole recording thing because we usually have no experience with the hardware versions of what the software tries to do. Anywho.... I'm really interested in the way you have setup your routing. I've read the User Guide cover to cover (well on screen lol), but I gather that this whole routing thing is something that you are supposed to already know about before you come to reaper. But in your ReaDrum project does your routing represent outputs to real physical hardward outputs? And if so why? I'm obviously missing a very large piece of the jigsaw here, but I'm very keen to get a handle on the whole routing thing.

Many thanks.
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:19 PM   #23
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Hey Pedalman, thanks for the interest! :-)

The "routing thing" is a biggie, but the good news is that once you wrap your head around it, in reaper it becomes totally intuitive. It absolutely "just makes sense".

First off, no there is no routing to hardware outputs at all.

It's like this: the secret to routing multiple outputs in Reaper is the output number box in the track that hosts the instrument; in this case, Master Drum Channel 1/2. You will notice the number 24, which in this case represents 12 stereo outputs. This number can be whatever you want (more or less), depending on your instrument and your needs.

One this number is set, Reaper automatically adds them as choices in the instrument, and in any subsequent tracks you add, to use for individual track outputs. So in the case of ReaDrum, I made a track for the Kick, and put it on the next set of stereo outs, 3/4 (with 1/2 being the main outs).

Now the kick has its own track for discreet processing, being fed that sampler from the Master Drum Channel. I repeated the process for the Snare and HH's since those are the most commonly processed, but you can add or take away track outs at will. Just route them on the appropriate channel in the I/O.

If you look and study the I/O routings track by track and compare to how the Master Channel is set, it should all make sense! Again, once this clicks it becomes rather fast and intuitive...
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:33 PM   #24
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Heads up to all, be careful to check the routing from the sampler; if there isn't an individual track out, it will need to be set to 1/2 or you won't hear anything.

IOW, don't take my having "pre-routed" everything for granted, as I may have missed this... No biggie, just a reminder to check- especially if you load a sample and can't hear it.
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:34 AM   #25
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Default Very intuative

Hey jamester,
Yes very good indeed. I re-read 10.2 on the User Manual and worked through example there. Then I tackled your project. I must admit the instances of ReaSamp... that did not have track asignments assigned had me stumped for a bit and I had to create new tracks in the main R window to have somewhere for the instances of ReaSamp to send to, but once I got all that going, I had a full drum kit. All sounding and playing very nicely thank you. So it's a double plus for me. I feel I've got a handle on basic routing in R and I have an very useful drum sampler. Too good!! :-) Thanks again.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepedalman View Post
I must admit the instances of ReaSamp... that did not have track asignments assigned had me stumped for a bit and I had to create new tracks in the main R window to have somewhere for the instances of ReaSamp to send to, but once I got all that going, I had a full drum kit.
Right, exactly!

Again, just know that 1) If you don't need/want a track out, simply assign that sampler to outs 1/2, and 2) In addition, any number of tracks can be grouped together on a single output; for example, you could assign all "Perc's" to a single track out, just make them all the same output from their samplers (say, 23/24).

Glad it's working out for you! :-)
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by env View Post
samplamatic without preview (rather prehear) during browsing is not
good enough for a drum sampler
Check this out-

I just discovered, not only can you preview from the Media Explorer, but you can drag-n-drop from it right to SamplOmatic! So you don't need the sampler's Browse button at all...

Solves that problem! :-)
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:29 AM   #28
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Awesome idea!

Thanks for the template.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:49 AM   #29
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I'm thinking it would be very cool to have a way of choosing & quick-zoning and maybe it needn't necessarily even be from inside REAPER.

If you could build your set and paste it in then that would be quite cool.

If you have any thoughts about how that could/should look & feel I'd be interested.

Basically I thought about a row of:

filename (browse button) lownote hinote rootnote interval
filename (browse button) lownote hinote rootnote interval
filename (browse button) lownote hinote rootnote interval
filename (browse button) lownote hinote rootnote interval


(interval would be 0 if you wanted to maintain the rootnote the whole time, or 1 if you wanted to move in normal semitone intervals.. OR anything else if you fancied more adventurous tuning!)

Then after you choose all your zones you would be able to paste them into the FX window directly (or maybe drag onto the FX button - not sure)
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:22 AM   #30
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On the occasion I recommend the free & fanmous G&S Custom Work Drum kit Sample Library 1.0, download here (a 185 MB rar file):
http://www.autodafe.net/samples.asp
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:30 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamester View Post
Check this out-

I just discovered, not only can you preview from the Media Explorer, but you can drag-n-drop from it right to SamplOmatic! So you don't need the sampler's Browse button at all...

Solves that problem! :-)
That one I knew already , but you know how 'In Kit Preview' from Battery3 can be useful, especially for snare rollings and hi-hats rhythms. Out of context preview in media explorer is not the same (imo of course).
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:47 AM   #32
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Nice to see the interest folks, glad it's been working! :-)

Drew: That went right over my head! Not sure what this would be for, why zones in a drum sampler??? (Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious.)

Alex Z: I remember seeing those drums a long time ago...are they multi-sampled/multi-velocity? If so, would they not be a good choice for ReaDrum since the SamplOmatic can only hold one sample at a time? Or once again, am I missing something? That download is almost 200mb's!

Env: Yeah, I hear ya on the "in place" audition...but I guess you can't have everything with an ad-hoc drum sampler like this! lol If Battery would frickin' save midi note assignments on empty cells, I wouldn't even need this project. But it can't, so I can't make (and save) templates for cell arrangements... :-(
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:31 PM   #33
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hey, jamester. I'm finally getting a chance to try this out, and i could use a bit of help.

I've imported a midi drum item, but the mapping is different than what ReaDrum expects. What's the suggested way to fix this? Move the midi events? remap the keys? And type slow... i'm just getting started with midi.


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Old 03-30-2007, 07:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post
hey, jamester. I'm finally getting a chance to try this out, and i could use a bit of help.

I've imported a midi drum item, but the mapping is different than what ReaDrum expects. What's the suggested way to fix this? Move the midi events? remap the keys? And type slow... i'm just getting started with midi.
Hey TJ, thanks for trying it out! I know what you mean about midi; I've been trying to get this stuff down for a few years now, and no matter how much I learn I still always feel like I'm only half way there! lol

Sounds like you've imported a midi drum loop, and it's not lining up with ReaDrum's chromatic mapping. That's always the issue with any 3rd-party (i.e., not made yourself) midi loops...

I think there's only two options really: One is to move the hits to the proper notes, the other is to change the note assignments in the respective SamplOmatics. Which one is easier depends on how off things are now, I suppose. If you change the midi editor to "Show named notes", you will then see all the lanes numbered. That should make it easy to change the samplers.

If your midi loops like this are all the same mapping, I would re-map all the samplers in ReaDrum to fit your loops, then save it as a track template named accordingly (like "ReaDrum_tj loops"). That way you'll still have the original ReaDrums, but you can use this one for those particular loops. I am probably going to do this for my SmartLoops and GrooveMonkey loops, actually!
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Old 03-31-2007, 05:46 AM   #35
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Morning, james. How are things in Baltimore? My wife grew up there, and i've visited a few times. Nice town.


Think i'm getting the hang of this. I've added several more tracks for toms, crashes, etc. and i'm finding it pretty darned helpful. Great idea!

I'm curious about track channels, tho'. Seems every post i read about this mentions using a pair for each instrument. Guess i don't understand why that would be necessary. If i'm sending 3 toms to seperate tracks, do i have to tie up 3 pairs? Can't i just use 3 individual channels, one for each tom?

I assume from your comments, that SmartLoops & GrooveMonkey aren't standard GM. What a pain! It seems that every midi loop i DL uses a different map.... sheesh!


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Old 03-31-2007, 11:55 AM   #36
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TJ, things are well in Charm City...though I have slept through half of my day today! lol

There should be no need for a "pair" of track outs, per instrument. The exception(s) would be the first four doubled samplers; you *could* have each of them going to individual outs, but personally I would rather have them combined on one out, and this is (hopefully) how I have it set up already for Kick and Snare.

You could have every sampler have it's own track out, or you could have every sampler routed only to the Main outs, or any combination in-between (thanks to Reaper's unincumbered routing)!

Yeah, there is a bit of pain with midi mappings, and I suppose there always will be. But again, it's a small price considering the freedom of being able to use any loop with any instrument or sound. Wav/Acid loops are easier, but aren't nearly as flexible for drums imo. =)
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:47 PM   #37
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all,

i've had a bit of time today to play with jamester's template and am having fun with it. if you haven't yet tried it, give it a listen. pretty cool!

i put together a zip with a midi loop, jamester's ReaDrums template loaded into a Reaper project, and some samples that i think are pretty good quality (although, they've been converted to OGG). it'll give you an opportunity to hear what it can do.

mind you, this is with a stock midi loop DL'd from GrooveMonkey. no effects except verb, just samples.


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Old 03-31-2007, 05:10 PM   #38
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Thats awesome - thanks Teej (and of course Jamester)

This is indeed a fabulous community. The next stage is for us to upload various kits for all to use.

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Old 03-31-2007, 08:09 PM   #39
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TJ that's really cool! :-)

Those samples sound great, I love the melodic congas. Are those random "found samples" or are they from a specific set/library?

Very nice demo for ReaDrums! Would you mind if I shared this?
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Old 04-01-2007, 03:52 AM   #40
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not at all, james... i made it for my personal use, but posted it with you in mind. do with it as you please.

All samples are free and have been gathered over the years from various sources. Some are from a rather extensive set of samples from one Tom Hick, who used to (still?) hang at the nTrack forum. This set actually has several samples per instrument, and although they weren't recorded with layers in mind, several samples are similar enuf they might be used as such. I've thought often about making an SF out of it.

Although i've never tried making a SF, i've gotten the impression it's a daunting task, so i never made time to try it.

I honestly don't remember where i got the congas.


tj
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Last edited by teej813; 04-01-2007 at 05:03 AM.
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