Old 04-18-2011, 06:24 PM   #1
valhalladsp
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Default Plugin crash issues in Reaper: missing DLLs?

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the proper forum, but anyways...

I just released ValhallaRoom for Windows 32/64-bit VST (http://www.valhalladsp.com/valhallaroom). A few users are reporting that the plugin crashes when changing presets in different Reaper versions - v3.75 and alpha 65. I have been unable to repeat these crashes on my Win XP SP2 and Win 7 systems.

I am wondering if the plugin is looking for a .dll when the presets are changed, that is present on my developer systems but not on the systems of some users. My plugin is built in VS2010. Is Reaper built in an earlier version of VisualStudio? Or a non-MS compiler?

Thanks for any and all help/suggestions.

Regards,

Sean Costello
Valhalla DSP, LLC
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:31 PM   #2
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Sean, first let me say your plugins are AMAZING!! I'm testing out the demos now in REAPER V4 alpha 65 and am HUGELY impressed. I have had a number of crashes though when changing presets. I'm running Win7 32 on my laptop which is what I am testing these on.

My studio rig is running Win7 64 but I'm still running REAPER 32 bit on that too. I haven't tried your plugins on the studio rig yet.

I can copy the Windows crash report for you next time it happens if that will help.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #3
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This crash is very intermittent but I just got it to occur again after changing presets numerous times.
Here's the crash report...

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4daa6dc1
Fault Module Name: StackHash_0a9e
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00760065
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3081
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:01 PM   #4
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Dannii, I see you're running the plug-in in the bridge (the module crashing is "reaper_host32.exe") why? It has a 64-bits version as well. Could you please try to run it in its native 64-bits version?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Dannii, I see you're running the plug-in in the bridge (the module crashing is "reaper_host32.exe") why? It has a 64-bits version as well. Could you please try to run it in its native 64-bits version?
This crash report came from my laptop which is running Win7 32 bit with REAPER 32 bit and the 32 bit version of the plugin.
I was originally running it in default mode. Then, after getting crashes, I changed it to run in a dedicated process with embedded GUI so it doesn't take REAPER with it when it crashes.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
This crash report came from my laptop which is running Win7 32 bit with REAPER 32 bit and the 32 bit version of the plugin.
I was originally running it in default mode. Then, after getting crashes, I changed it to run in a dedicated process with embedded GUI so it doesn't take REAPER with it when it crashes.
You can run a plugin in a dedicated process in Reaper? Dang, no wonder people like this host...

Anyway, I have a possible fix, that if any of you want to try it I would be very grateful:

Could you download and install the Microsoft VC++ 2010 Redistributable packages, and see if this fixes your crashes?

You can find the installers at

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx ?FamilyID=a7b7a05e-6de6-4d3a-a423-37bf0912db84 (x86 - 32-bit Windows)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx ?FamilyID=bd512d9e-43c8-4655-81bf-9350143d5867 (x64 - 64-bit Windows)

Why these might fix the issue: As a developer, I have all of the .dlls that are installed by the .exes on my systems. So if the bugs are tied into these .dlls not being present, or being out of date, I wouldn't be seeing these bugs on my system. Microsoft recommends redistributing these .exe files in some situations, or having them executed by the installer, but I had thought that this situation was alleviated in modern VisualStudio builds.

Anyway, I am thankful for the nice reception from y'all on a forum that is fairly new to me!

Regards,

Sean Costello
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:21 PM   #7
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Downloading now Sean. I have the 2008 VC++ already on my system but not the 2010 version.

...and yeah, being able to run plugins in a dedicated process is AWESOME on Win7 64 on my studio rig. That means I can run REAPER 32 and all the 32 bit plugins while still making use of the 8GB of RAM on that rig.
I'm running REAPER 32 on both rigs now because I found REAPER 64 to be slightly unstable. REAPER 32 is rock solid though.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
This crash report came from my laptop which is running Win7 32 bit with REAPER 32 bit and the 32 bit version of the plugin.
I was originally running it in default mode. Then, after getting crashes, I changed it to run in a dedicated process with embedded GUI so it doesn't take REAPER with it when it crashes.
Bear in mind it may take REAPER down too if the GUI is embedded as well. Anyways, let's see if those MS VC++ redistributable packages fix the problem. In the meantime I will download the demo version and try it with it since I can't make it crash at all with the full/licensed version.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:29 PM   #9
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Hmmm... didn't fix it here. I just got another crash when changing presets. The log looks exactly the same....


Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4daa6dc1
Fault Module Name: StackHash_0a9e
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00760065
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3081
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789


With the plugin running in a dedicated process, even with the GUI embedded, REAPER will freeze for a few seconds and then Room will quit and REAPER will come good. If I then offline the plugin and bring it back online, it runs fine again.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Hmmm... didn't fix it here. I just got another crash when changing presets. The log looks exactly the same....


Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4daa6dc1
Fault Module Name: StackHash_0a9e
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00760065
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3081
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789


With the plugin running in a dedicated process, even with the GUI embedded, REAPER will freeze for a few seconds and then Room will quit and REAPER will come good. If I then offline the plugin and bring it back online, it runs fine again.
And what if you don't run it in the bridge anymore? What's the faulting module in that case? "ValhallaRoom.dll" or "reaper.exe"?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
And what if you don't run it in the bridge anymore? What's the faulting module in that case? "ValhallaRoom.dll" or "reaper.exe"?
I'll try it now and post the log.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:38 PM   #12
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OK. Here's the crash log with it running in native mode....

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BEX
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 3.9.1.94
Application Timestamp: 4daa6e7d
Fault Module Name: ValhallaRoom.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 4da79d08
Exception Offset: 0019618a
Exception Code: c0000409
Exception Data: 00000000
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3081
Additional Information 1: e776
Additional Information 2: e77655d28026968207b8c80800c21305
Additional Information 3: 43cb
Additional Information 4: 43cb28f4cdf915a1c62331c6a2cbde7a
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:41 PM   #13
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reaper.exe
3.9.1.94
4daa6e7d
ValhallaRoom.dll
0.0.0.0
4da79d08
c0000409
0019618a
e58
01cbfe41c7b4e1d9
C:\Program Files (x86)\Audio Aplicaciones\REAPER 4\reaper.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Audio Plugs\VST\Valhalla DSP\ValhallaRoomDemo\ValhallaRoom.dll
5e951cb0-6a35-11e0-8fb8-00270e00b442

Yep, I just got a crash with the 32-bits demo version. Same module and offset as you Dannii (see above).

@Sean: Is that a known address for you? do you have 0019618a mapped for instance?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:44 PM   #14
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Perhaps it is a demo bug.

Sean, could it possibly be something to do with the reverb demo mode muting? Perhaps I can try changing a preset while the mute is occurring.


edit... maybe not. I just tried waiting until it muted and changed a preset but that didn't make it crash.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:48 PM   #15
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Ok, I just got a crash with the 64-bits demo:


reaper.exe
3.9.1.94
4daa6de2
ValhallaRoom_x64.dll
0.0.0.0
4da79872
c0000005
00000000000dac10
2d4
01cbfe43280f5670
C:\Program Files\Audio Aplicaciones\REAPER 4 (x64)\reaper.exe
C:\Program Files\Audio Plugs\VST\Valhalla DSP\ValhallaRoomDemo\ValhallaRoom_x64.dll
c26b7ea6-6a36-11e0-8fb8-00270e00b442

I will try it again with the full/licensed version.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:59 PM   #16
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I just tried the demo in Reaper 3.75 (32-bit). No crashes for me. The muting is the major difference between the demo and non-demo versions. Plus, a beta tester reported a crash in the alpha 65 build of Reaper using the full version. So I'm kinda at a loss right now. Hopefully someone from the Cockos team will have some input.

I need to learn how to read those crash logs. Very different from OSX logs, and what VisualStudio throws me when I am debugging a build.

Thanks for all of your help so far, Dannii and Mercado_Negro!

Sean Costello
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:06 PM   #17
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You're welcome Sean. If there's anything else we can do to help, just let us know. I know I'm not alone in saying I appreciate you being here and taking the time to investigate.

I am quite amazed at the attention to detail in sound quality in these plugins. Great work.

No doubt between us testing, you investigating and the REAPER dev's possibly offering some suggestions, we'll get to the bottom of the crashes.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:22 PM   #18
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OK peoples. I'm off to get some sleep. I'll check back later on.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalladsp View Post
I just tried the demo in Reaper 3.75 (32-bit). No crashes for me. The muting is the major difference between the demo and non-demo versions. Plus, a beta tester reported a crash in the alpha 65 build of Reaper using the full version. So I'm kinda at a loss right now. Hopefully someone from the Cockos team will have some input.

I need to learn how to read those crash logs. Very different from OSX logs, and what VisualStudio throws me when I am debugging a build.

Thanks for all of your help so far, Dannii and Mercado_Negro!

Sean Costello
Hey Sean, I just got a crash with the full version, check it out in this animation:



It's really hard to trigger it, you need to move your cursor up/down real quick over the presets menu and show/collapse sub-menus real fast. It takes a bit to reproduce it but it happens for sure, just try it for some minutes.

P.S. I also tried it on my brother's laptop in Studio One and it's also reproducible there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
OK peoples. I'm off to get some sleep. I'll check back later on.
Have a good night Dannii, sleep well
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Hey Sean, I just got a crash with the full version, check it out in this animation:



It's really hard to trigger it, you need to move your cursor up/down real quick over the presets menu and show/collapse sub-menus real fast. It takes a bit to reproduce it but it happens for sure, just try it for some minutes.

P.S. I also tried it on my brother's laptop in Studio One and it's also reproducible there.



Have a good night Dannii, sleep well
I will definitely go get some sleep in a minute!! ..... first though.... lol

I got curious with your post MN and tried moving my mouse up and down over the menus and if I keep doing it, I can make it crash consistently. The key seems to be to keep moving the mouse quickly over the menus until it crashes.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:15 PM   #21
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OK, now we're getting somewhere. I was looking at the code that loads from the preset structure to the plugin parameters, but if the crash happens as a result of quickly mousing over the preset menus, this is more closely related to the PopUpMenu code. Whether this is a drawing bug, or a bug in my own menu code, remains to be seen. But it is a good start. Thanks for the research!

Sean Costello
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:02 PM   #22
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Great to see you're honing in on this Sean.
Your feedback and involvement here is a show of integrity in customer relations and quality control.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #23
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Gated????

gated????

WHAT????

Someone FINALLY after 15 years or whatever of VST made a reverb at least equaling the cheapest shittiest 80's dsp reverb???

Downloading the demo right now....thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

A million times thank you
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Someone FINALLY after 15 years or whatever of VST made a reverb at least equaling the cheapest shittiest 80's dsp reverb???
Well, those were my goals:

1) Create a reverb that can stand tall with the cheapest shittiest 80's DSP reverb.

2) Have it crash in Reaper.

This is a proud day for Valhalla DSP.

(seriously, I'm working on a fix for #2)

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Old 04-19-2011, 12:52 PM   #25
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for years we've been getting reverb after reverb where the only real change was the gui. Many times I need a gated reverb and have to turn to convolution to get it. I've been waiting a LONG time for this plugin.

Just started messing with it now, having trouble understanding which parameters to mess with to make the gated effect from a normal reverb, I thought it would be the decay but it seems not. The gated presets are very nice starting points, but if I were to make a gated sound out of say, one of the plate presets, how would I do it?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
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for years we've been getting reverb after reverb where the only real change was the gui. Many times I need a gated reverb and have to turn to convolution to get it. I've been waiting a LONG time for this plugin.

Just started messing with it now, having trouble understanding which parameters to mess with to make the gated effect from a normal reverb, I thought it would be the decay but it seems not. The gated presets are very nice starting points, but if I were to make a gated sound out of say, one of the plate presets, how would I do it?
To get a gated sound:

- Set Depth to 0%. At this setting, you are only hearing the Early reverb.
- Use the Early Size Parameter to dial in your "gate" length.
- Set Early Diffusion to 100%, for maximum echo density.
- The Early Cross can also effect echo density, so turn that up if things are too sparse for you.

The reverb isn't a "gated" reverb, in the strict sense of a reverb that has a decay time which is cut off below an input amplitude threshold. Instead, it is more of a "nonlinear" reverb, as found in the AMS reverb, and later in the Lexicon PCM70, Yamaha SPX-90, Alesis Midiverbs, and so on. A nonlinear reverb doesn't have a decay time, so much as a time over which the signal is sustained, after which it abruptly cuts off. The term "gated" was often used for these nonlinear reverbs, and eventually became the standard term for these nonlinear verbs.

Sean Costello

Last edited by valhalladsp; 04-19-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:26 PM   #27
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Fantastic plugin this, great work.

Getting the occasional preset change crash too, but converted all the factory presets to Reaper native, here is the bank:
http://www.box.net/shared/9mvda02nnk
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #28
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Fantastic plugin this, great work.

Getting the occasional preset change crash too, but converted all the factory presets to Reaper native, here is the bank:
http://www.box.net/shared/9mvda02nnk
Thanks for this, V'ger! Can you send me a PM with your email address?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #29
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This is probably not helping here but whenever I saw a plug-in related "Stackhash" crash it seemingly had to do with DEP and turning that off cured it.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:32 PM   #30
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This is probably not helping here but whenever I saw a plug-in related "Stackhash" crash it seemingly had to do with DEP and turning that off cured it.
What is DEP?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalladsp View Post
To get a gated sound:

- Set Depth to 0%. At this setting, you are only hearing the Early reverb.
- Use the Early Size Parameter to dial in your "gate" length.
- Set Early Diffusion to 100%, for maximum echo density.
- The Early Cross can also effect echo density, so turn that up if things are too sparse for you.

The reverb isn't a "gated" reverb, in the strict sense of a reverb that has a decay time which is cut off below an input amplitude threshold. Instead, it is more of a "nonlinear" reverb, as found in the AMS reverb, and later in the Lexicon PCM70, Yamaha SPX-90, Alesis Midiverbs, and so on. A nonlinear reverb doesn't have a decay time, so much as a time over which the signal is sustained, after which it abruptly cuts off. The term "gated" was often used for these nonlinear reverbs, and eventually became the standard term for these nonlinear verbs.

Sean Costello
Thanks!!! I understand the gated reverb history rather well, DSP and analog keyed. We actually have another plugin, written by scott stillwell that covers the gated approach analog keying style called "verbiage" but I have continued looking for a reverb of your style, using the actual envelopes themselves. I would love to see a way of vst tempo syncing this thing, minus the pre delay and minus the body time for specific "gate" lengths, but this certainly has the pieces in place to make the sounds I have been struggling with ever since vst
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:52 PM   #32
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Sorry for the lame WP link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Execution_Prevention
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:02 PM   #33
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Hi valhalladsp, if there's anything we (REAPER developers) can help with, including translating some Windows lingo to OSX terms, let us know.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:07 PM   #34
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Hi valhalladsp, if there's anything we (REAPER developers) can help with, including translating some Windows lingo to OSX terms, let us know.
Thank you! I have a basic question:

- The preset menu code may be peeking into the file system a fair amount.
- The preset menu also uses the PopupMenu in Juce. This will be opening up to 2 additional windows on top (or to the side of) the main plugin window.

Which of these seems more likely to be causing the error?

Also, can you point me to a link on how to interpret the crash reports listed above? Seriously, Wikipedia-level works fine, but if there is a detailed explanation, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Sean
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:18 PM   #35
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Does this help maybe? http://www.stackhash.com/blog/post/W...StackHash.aspx (Sorry, can't even properly set an alarm clock to wake me up at 8:00 )
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:20 PM   #36
schwa
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Your best bet is to try to trap the error on your side, while running the plugin (hosted in REAPER) in the debugger. Then you can get a full stack trace, and see exactly what is causing the crash.

If you want to point me to the plugin and give some instructions for triggering the crash, I can see if I can get anything useful by trapping it on our side, though if it's entirely related to the plugin GUI, there might not be any information available from our side.

The module/offset crash logs can be interpreted by generating a mapfile when you compile the plugin. This will let you map the offset to a specific function in your code. It's not nearly as useful as a stack trace but you can usually figure out what function is being executed when the crash happens. More on mapfiles: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/debug/mapfile.aspx Note that the mapfile is only usable if generated from the exact same source code as the executable that is crashing, with the same compiler settings -- a mapfile generated from a debug build can't be used to look up offsets coming from a release build and so on.


[added] For example this crash
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=12

is a buffer overflow at offset 0019618a in ValhallaRoom.dll. It might be something as simple as a preset name being too long.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Your best bet is to try to trap the error on your side, while running the plugin (hosted in REAPER) in the debugger. Then you can get a full stack trace, and see exactly what is causing the crash.

If you want to point me to the plugin and give some instructions for triggering the crash, I can see if I can get anything useful by trapping it on our side, though if it's entirely related to the plugin GUI, there might not be any information available from our side.
The demo can be found at

http://www.valhalladsp.com/valhallaroom

I have only been able to get things to crash here once, and I was installing Intel C++ Composer at the same time. I'll try again. Basically, it sounds like it happens when people are rapidly choosing presets. The crash seems to happen when opening and closing various submenus, as opposed to the actual code that sets the plugin parameters from the presets.

Quote:
The module/offset crash logs can be interpreted by generating a mapfile when you compile the plugin. This will let you map the offset to a specific function in your code. It's not nearly as useful as a stack trace but you can usually figure out what function is being executed when the crash happens. More on mapfiles: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/debug/mapfile.aspx Note that the mapfile is only usable if generated from the exact same source code as the executable that is crashing, with the same compiler settings -- a mapfile generated from a debug build can't be used to look up offsets coming from a release build and so on.


[added] For example this crash
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=12

is a buffer overflow at offset 0019618a in ValhallaRoom.dll. It might be something as simple as a preset name being too long.
I'll check all of that out. Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:59 PM   #38
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Looks like a nice plugin!

I can get it to crash reproducibly (with an access violation) by zipping through the presets menu. The stack trace is entirely in the plugin, though, so I can't get any more information than that REAPER's not involved. I can also get it to crash the same way in another host.

So, it looks to be specific to the GUI elements, rather something to do with audio or VST plugin/host communication.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:15 AM   #39
valhalladsp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Looks like a nice plugin!

I can get it to crash reproducibly (with an access violation) by zipping through the presets menu. The stack trace is entirely in the plugin, though, so I can't get any more information than that REAPER's not involved. I can also get it to crash the same way in another host.

So, it looks to be specific to the GUI elements, rather something to do with audio or VST plugin/host communication.
Thanks for looking at this. I have managed to reproduce the crash while running the debugger in VS2010, and it looks like it may be a Juce issue. Not sure if it is a bug, so much as needing to set up the "modal state" properly, whatever that is. I've posted the issue at the Juce forum.

Sean Costello
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:36 PM   #40
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Great to hear Sean. I'm definitely going to be buying this next pay day (about a week away). This verb has VERY quickly become a must have for me.
I'll send you some samples using this with my analog keyboard rig for your website too.
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