Old 04-11-2007, 12:10 PM   #1
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Default Concept sketch for the Reaper mixer

This is how Reaper will look from now on and there's nothing you can do about it

[img]http://img404.**************/img404/5562/mixer6sys5.png[/img]

Just kidding.

The main point I want to make is 'this is what we could do if Reaper was this skinnable' rather than pushing this particular design. Using transparent .png files over Reaper's gradients, with the option of the Hue in their HSB values being an offset rather than absolute. I'd also propose an end to the use of .ico files, since we don't need the multiple resolutions and they're ...well... annoying! Here's how it could work - orange is the button bitmaps, which sit over the backgroung bitmap (yellow) which modify Reaper's gradients

[img]http://img359.**************/img359/6251/mixerbitmapstk1.gif[/img]

Here I've incorporated a bunch of stuff that I've noticed in the FR forum for advances to the mixer, using my own judgement. The features aren't the point, its just about the pretty pictures...

[img]http://img359.**************/img359/3835/mixer6asf6.png[/img]
[img]http://img404.**************/img404/1014/mixer6bfk7.png[/img]

...first person to mention 'bloat' gets a prize.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:13 PM   #2
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Bloat (and a few words for the effin sake of it). Now where is my prize?

Okay seriously, that looks fantastic, especially the faders, so real, just like I could move'em with my fingers, and there we are at the downside, it'd just sit in front of my screen and touching the damn faders but they wont move

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Old 04-11-2007, 12:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
...first person to mention 'bloat' gets a prize.
I feel a bit of bloat in me trousers over these shots!!! (pun intended)




Very nice!!!

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Old 04-11-2007, 12:19 PM   #4
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BLOAT !!!!!

Just kidding.... Sort of... It does feel a bit... um... busy.

I do like the basic concept of layered images as an option, but I'd want to be able to switch between the current "standard" version with ico files and your proposed "skinnable" version of the UI 'cause I'm sure this is going to be a bit more hungry than the current UI.

I'd be very happy with larger (24x24) icons in the toolbar and transport areas. Anything beyond that is gravy to make the kids happy imho.

hm
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:21 PM   #5
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HOLLY FREAKING COW MAN!!! THAT IS SOOOO AWESOME!!

Heck I'd by an app that just looked like that even if it did nothing.

Seriously. I want that!!! That is too cool man!

I vote YES!
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:21 PM   #6
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Loser's had the prize. The bloat calls may now cease. Though I suspect they won't...
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:39 PM   #7
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I wanna hear the track that contains "bagpipes"!

Looks good but tend to agree it looks a tad busy...still a thousand times better than anything i could come up with but then thats why im a sound engineer and not a graphic artist. Hey ho.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:41 PM   #8
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Hey !
nice !
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:42 PM   #9
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Looking at the settings I think the moaning/scum balance might be a bit off. Oh wait -- it's just a mockup! So real.

I'm agnostic on visuals and skins, but

- this is very pretty (it's glorious work)
- I am dying to know how long this took you (be honest now)
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Loser's had the prize. The bloat calls may now cease. Though I suspect they won't...
Nothing wrong with a little honest bloat, especially when it's paid for by some very tasty looking graphics, which is the case here.

It helps if you like what you're looking at when you spend many hours working with the same app.

Some things are worth a little bloatage, IMO.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:50 PM   #11
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This is a perfect example of why I think that a totally "skinnable" GUI would be one of the biggest advantages Reaper could have over the competition.

Also, if you could have "some" control over the presentation and layout using a separate interface construction kit...it would be amazing....and everyone could have it set up and looking exactly they way "they" want it to.

Doing something like this would allow 3rd party developers to come up with great enhancements to the GUI, and it would allow Justin to concentrate on feature enhancements.

People still running 386 CPU's with 16mb of ram can still have their Windows 3.0 interface and be happy as well.

I can't believe no one has even commented on my suggestion!

White Tie....EXCELLENT work! Thanks for showing what "could" be possible if people were to support the idea.

Last edited by Newguy; 04-11-2007 at 12:51 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:01 PM   #12
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"The bloat calls may now cease."

Well, there were no replies when I started writing mine. The other bloats snuck in ahead of me. I either need to type or think faster.

I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that if the mixer sprouts legs and gets all of those additional buttons / knobs / toys / etc... I'm gonna need to pick up a third monitor. And I don't want any more monitors.....

Sure, the interface needs to look a bit more "pro" than it currently does, but I think Vegas looks "pro". Give me bigger transport/toolbar icons and better coloring behavior (like Vegas - there's an open FR about this) in the wave area and I'd be perfectly happy.

hm
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:05 PM   #13
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Some knobs and lights are a very little bit big (especially compared to some text size), but it is really tasty-looking !
thank you for your graphic efforts and contribution.
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:07 PM   #14
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I think for the future, something like this would be much much much loved, muchly.
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:10 PM   #15
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Default This is very intresting!

Wow!!

Man this is very veyr intresting and promising! I looooooooove it. Even if its TRUE its a bit too busy but the frames and knobs are very welcome and even love the Colour, imagine that you can flip the colour on the one that suites you just like in Live Ableton!! This INterface is to be considered for sure by Justin... can't wait to read his feedbakc on this one!

Great job!!

Excellent!! Very innovative!

Edit: And also i love the way you took the time to add the FAY FX track should appear and so on.. WOW sincerly i'm in LOVE and if REAPER will one day have that look and the way everything is POsitioned in your layout, it will be WOW!! Got no words!! Love it.. please JUSTIN.. give us your feedback!!
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:13 PM   #16
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Shiny things! Oooooh... mmm.. shiiiny

I think I just drooled. Just a little.
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #17
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My first impression was: Wow, this looks marvelous.
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Old 04-11-2007, 01:30 PM   #18
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It's definitely slick, without question. The design is striking, but I'd never want to use it. Sorry.

It's just too cold/metallic for my taste. I like the colors I chose for the current interface. Unlike most, I tend to like software interfaces that don't look like the cockpit of a spaceship.

Now, if it could be made to look like simulated walnut veneer, we might have a deal. :~)
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:02 PM   #19
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"MR. DATA, WHAT IF WE APPLY MODULATED TACHYONS TO THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY FIELD NEAR THE IMPULSE NACELLES TO CREATE A STATIC WARP SHELL?"
"MAKE IT SO!"
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I just updated my Sound Forge to v.9. Over SIXTY-FIVE freaking megabytes! Not counting the CD Architect and other accessories I got with it.
A Stereo Editor! Okay, it does surround, too.

Nancy says Just Say No to bloat!!!!


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Old 04-11-2007, 02:14 PM   #20
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Default yeah

bloat or whatever...So how many more megs would be added to the installer if a GUI like this were implemented????????????
Though im not sure what some of that stuff is;for the most part, its dope! Where is the edit screen?
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:25 PM   #21
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Justin!

I'll ship you another 40 bucks now, if you make this possible with White Tie's work as the default.

I will log into paypal, and send you more money to make this happen. White Tie is a genius, and perhaps I am shallow, but this makes me smile more than Solar's avatar.

So, in terms of bloat... what would those pretty pictures add? 2mb? 4 maybe? FINE! This is justifiable bloat IMHO!!!!!!!!!

In case it is not obvious, I love what you have done. and seriously, don't sweat the "busy" comments.


t.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
This is how Reaper will look from now on and there's nothing you can do about it

[img]http://img404.**************/img404/5562/mixer6sys5.png[/img]

Just kidding.

The main point I want to make is 'this is what we could do if Reaper was this skinnable' rather than pushing this particular design. Using transparent .png files over Reaper's gradients, with the option of the Hue in their HSB values being an offset rather than absolute. I'd also propose an end to the use of .ico files, since we don't need the multiple resolutions and they're ...well... annoying! Here's how it could work - orange is the button bitmaps, which sit over the backgroung bitmap (yellow) which modify Reaper's gradients

[img]http://img359.**************/img359/6251/mixerbitmapstk1.gif[/img]

Here I've incorporated a bunch of stuff that I've noticed in the FR forum for advances to the mixer, using my own judgement. The features aren't the point, its just about the pretty pictures...

[img]http://img359.**************/img359/3835/mixer6asf6.png[/img]
[img]http://img404.**************/img404/1014/mixer6bfk7.png[/img]

...first person to mention 'bloat' gets a prize.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:04 PM   #22
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Please, no.

The primary function of the interface must remain to support functionality and ease of use. Anything that detracts from that detracts from the merits of the program.

If the mixer was revamped to look like that, obviously the whole of the rest of the interface would have to be redesigned along the same principles, and I shudder to think of what the overall effect would be.

If Pro Tools had that kind of look, would it have sold more copies or less in the professional environment? Rather less, I'd imagine.

Wanting to avoid the kind of design illustrated here, where to my taste clarity has been thrown out of the window in favour of a superficially sexy look, it precisely what drew me to Reaper in the first place. This mockup is to me akin to putting a mustache and glasses on the Mona Lisa. I'm horrified!

I don't care if something of the sort is implemented as an option, fine, but there had better be a "sane" version as an option else I'd just stick with the last plain version.

It's a fantastic piece of work and very well done, and a very handy reference point for ongoing discussion - but, imho, done completely wrong! Sorry.

I'm off for a strong cup of sweet tea to calm me down.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:10 PM   #23
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i do not consider that bloat!!

bloat to me is the 30MB of Sonar that I can't find, use, or figure out!!

if a cool pic/UI ads 1MB i can't see the harm. everyone agreeing on the UI is a different story!
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:14 PM   #24
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I will take two please!

Very nice. I want it. When can I have it?
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Please, no.

The primary function of the interface must remain to support functionality and ease of use. Anything that detracts from that detracts from the merits of the program.

If the mixer was revamped to look like that, obviously the whole of the rest of the interface would have to be redesigned along the same principles, and I shudder to think of what the overall effect would be.

If Pro Tools had that kind of look, would it have sold more copies or less in the professional environment? Rather less, I'd imagine.

Wanting to avoid the kind of design illustrated here, where to my taste clarity has been thrown out of the window in favour of a superficially sexy look, it precisely what drew me to Reaper in the first place. This mockup is to me akin to putting a mustache and glasses on the Mona Lisa. I'm horrified!

I don't care if something of the sort is implemented as an option, fine, but there had better be a "sane" version as an option else I'd just stick with the last plain version.

It's a fantastic piece of work and very well done, and a very handy reference point for ongoing discussion - but, imho, done completely wrong! Sorry.

I'm off for a strong cup of sweet tea to calm me down.
If sexy has no impact on functionality, why on earth would it be bad? All of the same buttons are there, Where is the problem with it looking great?

I dont get it.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Please, no.

The primary function of the interface must remain to support functionality and ease of use. Anything that detracts from that detracts from the merits of the program.

If the mixer was revamped to look like that, obviously the whole of the rest of the interface would have to be redesigned along the same principles, and I shudder to think of what the overall effect would be.

If Pro Tools had that kind of look, would it have sold more copies or less in the professional environment? Rather less, I'd imagine.

Wanting to avoid the kind of design illustrated here, where to my taste clarity has been thrown out of the window in favour of a superficially sexy look, it precisely what drew me to Reaper in the first place. This mockup is to me akin to putting a mustache and glasses on the Mona Lisa. I'm horrified!

I don't care if something of the sort is implemented as an option, fine, but there had better be a "sane" version as an option else I'd just stick with the last plain version.

It's a fantastic piece of work and very well done, and a very handy reference point for ongoing discussion - but, imho, done completely wrong! Sorry.

I'm off for a strong cup of sweet tea to calm me down.
I hope the tea worked

I think what White Tie is suggesting is that Reaper being skinnable is a good thing.. and it does look like people like skins (even if tastes vary considerably).

It's the skin-ability rather than this particular GUI that is being promoted.

Now, I don't know how much work or additional code such skin-ability would add, but I can see the appeal.

I would then assume that skins could be downloaded separately. Maybe a Walnut one, a Chrome one, and a very, very plain one

It's themes Xtreme
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:27 PM   #27
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F*cking nice! PLEASE make reaper look something like this!
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #28
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uugggh, functionality over pretty any day... looks VERY nice but i prefer reaper as it is i could picture my eyes getting a bit tired of this...
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:44 PM   #29
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Default I like this

alot. Nice job !
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
All of the same buttons are there, Where is the problem with it looking great?
Are they? It's impossible to tell. If there are legends or icons to identify them, the are so small and/or dark that I can't see them. If this was a physical piece of equipment, the first thing I'd do would be (a) to put on stronger glasses [on me, not on the Mona Lisa] and (b) to get a flashlight out to provide a bit of illumination in the dark corners.

If anyone knows of a physical mixer whose designers have considered it useful to make the functions of the controls so unclear, and then recommends use in a dark, shaded place, I'd be interested to know.

In the middle of a live recording I have no desire to fumble, grope and peer. Total clarity is required.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Please, no.

The primary function of the interface must remain to support functionality and ease of use. Anything that detracts from that detracts from the merits of the program.

If the mixer was revamped to look like that, obviously the whole of the rest of the interface would have to be redesigned along the same principles, and I shudder to think of what the overall effect would be.

If Pro Tools had that kind of look, would it have sold more copies or less in the professional environment? Rather less, I'd imagine.

Wanting to avoid the kind of design illustrated here, where to my taste clarity has been thrown out of the window in favour of a superficially sexy look, it precisely what drew me to Reaper in the first place. This mockup is to me akin to putting a mustache and glasses on the Mona Lisa. I'm horrified!

I don't care if something of the sort is implemented as an option, fine, but there had better be a "sane" version as an option else I'd just stick with the last plain version.

It's a fantastic piece of work and very well done, and a very handy reference point for ongoing discussion - but, imho, done completely wrong! Sorry.

I'm off for a strong cup of sweet tea to calm me down.
hogwash. I fully disagree with that comment.

no offense.

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Old 04-11-2007, 04:09 PM   #32
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very nice, allthough i would creat my own skin

hey art and everyone else against skinnig. you know a big reason for winamps success was, that it was skinable. justin can also rebuild the actual default look with the way white tie mentioned and it's a good idea to do it that way. i bet justin allready thought of that for later (he made winamp as we know and gave us a way to creat our own skins for reaper from the beginning ) it won't even be too much bloat just around 10 png's of around 50KBytes makes 500KBytes. an if reaper just ships with the default theme (plane color for background) it's down to 50 KB
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:13 PM   #33
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I don't think Reaper NEEDS to look like this, but having it be that skinnable would be nice. I don't think adding that level of skinning would be adding a lot of bloat. You could just give the app the capability and then let people download the skins they want.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:16 PM   #34
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and an other thing, in opengl or directx it might also be faster to draw a png that sits in the graphiccards memory than drawing the allready used gradient backgrounds for tracks or icons with the default windows functions. windows vista is a good example. it's new interface takes way less cpu power to draw than the old windows xp style. most parts are done on the graphiccard.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:18 PM   #35
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If total clarity is needed, then use the plain skin? Nobody is saying you couldn't have a plain skin?

wtf can people not actually READ THE POST????

He has basically said that although the way the skinning works now, using icons, he feels that a different approach would make it easier for skinners and actually enable them to do some very nice design work.

The problem is that in Reaper, just like Winamp, some people want their Reaper Dark with Pink buttons and others want theirs to be White and Grey, nothing else. The fact is White Tie is suggesting a different approach to skinning the mixer and maybe actually giving Reaper a little more style.

Style and functionality go hand in hand. Your saying you want clean, then sure, imagine how good an interface could be created with White Ties graphics and a minamilists approach to buttons?

Are you seriously saying that if the mixer was done like White Tie did it, but he did it just in say White/Grey and buttons in say a nice blue with shine to them, you would not prefer that to just the standard mixer?

I personally think that if you adopted a "minamalist" approach to the skinning White Tie they would be incredible. I think that people are just put off because of the various different buttons being different colours. But then again, I don't like using any Reaper themes which have a Black background, just can't handle it for tracking/mixing.

The reason sometimes why reaper may not get taken as seriously as other DAWS is because, it doesn't look like them. What White Tie has produced is actually nicer looking than all of them and with careful tweaking, could see this being incredible!
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:29 PM   #36
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Well done mate that's first class , sign me up.


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Old 04-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldi View Post
and an other thing, in opengl or directx it might also be faster to draw a png that sits in the graphiccards memory than drawing the allready used gradient backgrounds for tracks or icons with the default windows functions. windows vista is a good example. it's new interface takes way less cpu power to draw than the old windows xp style. most parts are done on the graphiccard.

Great point.


As far as White Tie's mockup, looks nice. Where's the Mute button? I think you forgot it. heh.
skinability would be good.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:40 PM   #38
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If I could, I'd have a Reason skin - that'd rock
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:41 PM   #39
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Being skinnable like that would open up a world of possibilites and fun

that is great!

just let me know when it is ready !
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:41 PM   #40
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I agree, making it skinable is the way to go. If you want pretty pictures, you can have them, if not, don't skin it.

Personally, I like pretty pictures.
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