Old 04-11-2007, 02:14 PM   #1
iNNeRNoiZe
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Default [REQUEST] Multi out tutorial

I´m searching for a step by step "Multi out VSTi on different outs & MIDI channels" tutorial.

Reapers routing driving me mad...

Regards, MiCHa
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:17 PM   #2
Jason Brian Merrill
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http://www.cockos.com/wiki/index.php...i-Out_Vsti%27s

?
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:27 PM   #3
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Innernoize, I think I know what you mean, that tutorial doesn't address having different midi channels AND different outs. Somewhere on this forum is a better explaination of how to do that. Essentially, you'll need twice as many tracks as you would think. And there are folder tracks involved. Honestly, I don't even know, I just use track templates for now until something easier comes along.

Check the Track Templates thread in the Q&A forum. This will automate the process for now (provided your vsti is one that is posted in the forum), until an easier way is set up (if that happens). Still, download a track template to see how it is set up.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:57 PM   #4
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try this, and download the track presets too.
Ignore my naming conventions if you like gr=Group/Folder; vsti = instrument track containing a... ; 'o' indicates an output from the instrument; 'm' means a midi track. The templates are for Stylus RMX, and a generic that has a cockos instrument as a place holder.


1. create a track make it a folder name it something like: gr VSTi Stylus let this one send audio to the master. This folder track will contain all the other tracks needed to make the instrument work. it will also control the master volume of the instrument. The instrument's individual outs will route thier audio here.

2. create a track (to hold the VSTi and recieve the initial audio feeds from the VSTi's out puts); this will be a multi channel track. I name this one vsti Stylus 1.
-click on the FX icon, navigate to and sellect the VSTi you want.
- Open the sends/recieves window (click the second icon right of the track name): in the Track Channels dropdown select the number of audio outputs the VSTi will send into Reaper. In the case of stylus I choose 16 = 8 Stereo outs in stylus A-H.
uncheck the Master/Parent send.

3. create a new track. name it o 1.A [vsti name] = output 1, name of VSTi.
-open the sends/recieves window (click the second icon right of the track name): uncheck master parent send (we will not sentd the autio directly to the master, but rather route it through the topmost track, the folder/group track: gr VSTi Stylus. -In the Track Channels Dropdown select 2.
-Add new send: In the add new send dropdown, select gr VSTi Stylus. Route it as follows: Audio 1/2 => 1/2 | midi all => none. This will send the audio on channel 1 & 2 of this track to the topmost folder, and it will send no midi info anywhere.
-Add new receive: In this drop down select the multichannel track that contains the vst instrument. Route it as follows: Audio 1/2 => 1/2 | midi all => none. This Tells Reaper to send the audio from the first two channesl of the VSTi multichannel track to this track, but to send no midi information.

4. Make 7 duplicates of that last track (o 1.A [vsti name]). These will end up being your 8 stereo outputs from the instrument, but at this point 2-7 need further configuration: We have to tell them to receive the audio from the VSTi 2nd-8th stereo outputs (B-H in the case of stylus rmx).
-select the first of the duplicates, and rename it from:o 1.A [vsti name] to o 2.B [vsti name].
-Open the receives window by clickin the first icon to the right of the track name. Change the routing from: Audio 1/2 => 1/2 | midi all => none, to: Audio 3/4 => 1/2 | midi all => none, thus instructing Reaper to send the audio from the second two channesl of the VSTi multichannel track to this track, but to send no midi information.
-do this for the rest of the duplicates, swapping the Audio 1/2 with Audio 5/6, 7/8, 9/10, 11/12, 13/14, 15/16.

you have now configured the multi output portion, now for the midi. These tracks need to do nothing with the audio signals, so they will not be routed to any master/parent.:

5. Add 8 more tracks and name them m 1-8. Select the last track and toggle it to last track in a folder by clicking the first icon (folder icon) after the track name.
-Select these last 8 tracks, and with them all selected, R-Click the second icon after the track name: a context menu appears. Un check the Parent Folder Send. R-Click that Icon again select: Sends --> Track 2: vsti Stylus 1 or whatever you named it, but it is the second track we created, the one containing the VST instrument.

That process just created a send for each of the selected tracks to the vst instrument. It also cancelled these midi track sending audio to the master.

Now, one by one open the send window for the midi tracks. Note that the routing looks like: Audio: None +> 1/2 | Midi: All => All. Mostly cool! no audio, but the midi from this track is being routed to all midi channels on the track containing the vst instrument. What we want is for this track to send All its Midi to midi channel 1 on the vsti track. Adjust the send Midi channel dropdown accordingly: Midi: All => 1.
do this for the rest of the midi tracks swapping the All for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Done. Close the topmost folder to hide all the mess. I always select the midi tracks and disable the show selected tracks in mixer, as the faders do nothing in terms of midi cc mix data, so i don't want them cluttering up the mixer. Also, i always put the midi tracks after the output tracks, as my instrument will have a static number of outs, but the midi tracks may increase in number.

hope this helps,

cheers

t.
Attached Files
File Type: rtracktemplate VSTi Stylus RMX 8Midi 8i-o.RTrackTemplate (50.1 KB, 290 views)
File Type: rtracktemplate VSTi Generic 8Midi 8i-o.RTrackTemplate (7.1 KB, 475 views)
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:12 PM   #5
iNNeRNoiZe
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Thank you very much !

Exactly what I´m looking for

Best Regards, MiCHa
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:04 PM   #6
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Pffff... *scratching head*....

I've had my first go, but did not end up with what I want. Maybe one of you can help me oiut here? It should be 'normal' possible to do this...

I have a vst, Battery, and want to use 8 outputs of it. Now I would want the rhythm to be written in one midi-event on the track that holds the vst, and output the different drums to different tracks underneath. Audio that is.

I've tried the tutorials here, but it did not help me out. Now I can have a midiclip on all of the tracks and the audio comes out of the toptrack holding the vst. I don't want midiclips on all tracks, just on the vst-one. The resulting audio output of Battery then should not be on the vst-track, but the ones below.

Whatever routing I try (confusing me right now) the audio keeps coming from the vst-track, and none of the meters/tracks below show activity. I can however put my midiclip on track 2/3/4.. and it plays back on the vst-track.

Maybe somebody can explain it with just one output track extra?

So: Vst + midi rhythm on 1 track,
Audio output on track 2.

Should be totally possible, but I can't get a grip on it....

Any advice?
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc UB View Post
Any advice?
Have you read and tried what Tallisman wrote? Because, honnestly, short of being there and setting it up with you I don't know how to explain better. Print his post and follow the step one at a time and it will get you there. Along the way you'll understand how it works so, once you do, you'll be able to set it up your own way thereafter.

The Wicky entry needs slight rework; first, it doesn't say that the track holding the VSTI will always send audio from channel 1&2 no matter what you do and that you have to disable the master out from that track if you don't want to hear it. Then it doesn't talk about stereo visit mono VST output and how to best deal with those, or how to save the work as template once done.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
The Wicky entry needs slight rework; first, it doesn't say that the track holding the VSTI will always send audio from channel 1&2 no matter what you do and that you have to disable the master out from that track if you don't want to hear it. Then it doesn't talk about stereo visit mono VST output and how to best deal with those, or how to save the work as template once done.
then get off yer arse and make the corrections

it would be much apperchiated
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
then get off yer arse and make the corrections

it would be much apperchiated
Love to, but my English is way too bad to start writing in wickies...come to think of it, my French ain't that good either...

Last edited by bullshark; 05-17-2007 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Love to, but my English is way too bad to start writing in wickies...come to think of it, my French ain't that good either...
DOH!

forgot you were a francophone
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:39 PM   #11
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You know, I started making a video about multying and sub-grouping within folders in Reaper one evening when I had nothing better to do; it's mostly all done...without the voice-over as I hated the way I spoke in English. If ever I find somebody to do English voice-over, I'll post it up.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:49 PM   #12
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I would post it in french

We need to start working on the other language stuff for sure
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
If ever I find somebody to do English voice-over, I'll post it up.
i'd like to watch your video with Don LaFontaine's voiceover..

ehh

just a joke.

i think if you put your words into the video via text, is all good. (for me, at least)
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by beatbybit View Post
i'd like to watch your video with Don LaFontaine's voiceover..
Made famous by the movie "Over The Edge"? yeah, that would be funny

You happen to know if he's available?

Quote:
i think if you put your words into the video via text, is all good. (for me, at least)
Yeah, but then why make video? A simple web page like in the wicky would do, I thought of video for peoples who learn differently.

Last edited by bullshark; 05-17-2007 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:05 PM   #15
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I would post it in french

We need to start working on the other language stuff for sure
And then maybe a good soul could overdub in english? Good thinking.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:09 PM   #16
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If it so pleases, I rework that post above and amend the wiki.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Made famous by the movie "Over The Edge"? yeah, that would be funny

You happen to know if he's available?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZJMGS7l0wT8

i think he is..

if he's not, then:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JQRtuxdfQ...elated&search=
..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullshark View Post
Yeah, but then why make video? A simple web page like in the wicky would do, I thought of video for peoples who learn differently.
i did some videos too, i have language problems too - i was using text in my videos. some folks liked it.

but yes, i think too it's more professional with a voiceover.

Last edited by beatbybit; 05-17-2007 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNNeRNoiZe View Post
I´m searching for a step by step "Multi out VSTi on different outs & MIDI channels" tutorial.

Reapers routing driving me mad...

Regards, MiCHa
Name some VSTi, someone probably has a template for one or more that you could study.
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:36 PM   #19
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Pfew! Got it working thanks to Talisman's guide, but not exactely the way he describes. I didn't need any midi-tracks but now I have a working template for Battery 2 with 8 stereo out's, finally.

I followed his guide up untill point four, where the configuring of the multi-out part stops.
Then I did point five, and tried to create a midi-part on it, to be played back through one of the outs. Nothing happened...

Then I put the midi part on the Vsti-track, the one actually holding the instrument, and it all worked like a charm!! In the original Talisman setup that is.

I then deleted the midi-channels and made the last output-track into the last foldertrack.

I can now have the midi-item on the vsti track (handy when switching between the instruments settings and the pattern) and have the instrument put out all it's audio to separate output-tracks to be mixed and treated with fx.
The Group channel (top) acts like a sort of submix-bus, with which I can mute the whole drumkit.

For better usability in a project, I now copy the midi-clips from the instrument track to the group track as well, so that they are visible when I collaps the folder. They don't make any sound there, so they don't interfere also.

Pfew... I'll copy Talismans explanation on a text file too, for later reference. But I begin to understand the basics. And it is a handy feature I think! once I've set up templates for all multi-out vsti's, I'm done for good and can use them in seconds. Great! And very customisable too!

For those of you interested in the template for Battery 2, It's attached here, and I'll be posting it now in the sticky thread.

Thanx for the help sofar!
Attached Files
File Type: rtracktemplate Battery2-8StereoOut.RTrackTemplate (12.7 KB, 351 views)
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:59 PM   #20
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Default For all of you...

Not to say Talisman was wrong about step 5 though... There are actually two different ways of using Multi out VSTi's here.

One is the way I did with Battery. That way, the midi data (drumpatterns) are on one track also holding the instrument, and the instrument puts out to output tracks. In the case of drums this is nice, because you don't want to edit your kicks-snares-hats all on different midi-parts on different channels. Let's call this a rhythmic template for now.

The other way is with step 5 of Talisman. That way you can play the instrument on different midi-channels, each with different melodies on them, playing different patches on the VSTi. You can do that for instance with Sampletank or Sonik Synth. Those ROMplers can have different samplepacks on different midi-channels. So now you can use midi-in 1 in the template to play a piano melody, while midi-in 2 is playing a Hammond organ. That's more of a melodic template if you like.

So...... Basically if you include these two basic templates, you can cater for a variety of VSTi's, drumpattern based or melodic.

I'll put these two basic templates up in the Multi VST sticky topic. Not here, because the forum won't allow me to post them in two topics.

Just plug your VSTi of choice in the VSTi Track, tweak it's patch and channel settings and away you go, make music!
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:22 PM   #21
MikeEss
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Default Trying to get this working in Battery 2!

Ok i've followed Tallisman's advice for setting up multi-channel routing but am still having a few issues:

1) I can't get the stereo/mono selections to work in bat 2 kicks/hats/claps all play when set to "1-2" but if i try to change em in bat to "3-4" or "5-6" it stops playing.

2) "mute" and "solo" do not work... the entire thing mutes or it solo's if either button is hit.

3) and lastly.. i can't seem to get FX to working in any of the battery channels. I put an FX on and nothing!

Hopefully a routing wizard can help me bang out these problems! thanks Ess.
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